I’ll try to keep it short, and cut it most the backstory. I wanted to make a character who is primarily a warlock(Genie) but thinks their powers are from being a Paladin. My first thought was to take 2 levels in Paladin then stick with warlock. But then I thought about instead talking a level or two of fighter. I like was Paladin gets me (smite, healing, and a couple spells); but I don’t know if I like that it locks him into him becoming a Paladin in the future (through eventual character growth). Maybe when his finds out the truth he would want to leave the Paladin thing behind. If so then would fighter make him a believable Paladin, but also let him go elsewhere in the future? Thoughts? I’m open to any and all criticism! Thanks!
Hexblade warlocks get some smites anyway, so you could absolutely go that route and still be able to do some paladin-y stuff without actually taking levels in it
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I’ll try to keep it short, and cut it most the backstory. I wanted to make a character who is primarily a warlock but thinks their powers are from being a Paladin. My first thought was to take 2 levels in Paladin then stick with warlock. But then I thought about instead talking a level or two of fighter. I like was Paladin gets me (smite, healing, and a couple spells); but I don’t know if I like that it locks him into him becoming a Paladin in the future (through eventual character growth). Maybe when his finds out the truth he would want to leave the Paladin thing behind. If so then would fighter make him a believable Paladin, but also let him go elsewhere in the future? Thoughts? I’m open to any and all criticism! Thanks!
So I'm going to change some of your wording.
Paladins per the PHB - "Different paladins focus on various aspects of the cause of righteousness, but all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work. Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god."
Paladins aren't nearly as restrictive as they were in recent editions, but essentially they get their powers either from a God and the Tenets of that god(Oath) or in deityless settings, more about upholding those ideals and that is what empowers them.
Warlocks per the PHB - "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being. Sometimes the relationship between warlock and patron is like that of a cleric and a deity, though the beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods. A warlock might lead a cult dedicated to a demon prince, an archdevil, or an utterly alien entity—beings not typically served by clerics. More often, though, the arrangement is similar to that between a master and an apprentice. The warlock learns and grows in power, at the cost of occasional services performed on the patron’s behalf."
Now this is interesting because it implictly states they aren't God themselves, it doesn't mean that the being isn't an intermediary for a God. It also doesn't state anything about the relationship of a Patron to its Warlock other than sometimes the Warlock will do stuff that the Patron would want. That honestly aligns very well with what a Paladin is going to do, a God wants the Paladin to follow its Oath/Tenets to aid in serving it. In other settings without Gods, that Paladin is going to follow the tenets of their Oath.
The "issue", and to me as a DM it wouldn't even be a really big one is how does that character flavor the inherently NOT divine features of Warlock, specifically Hexblade since you want smites. Hexblades Curse honestly can be flavored to work as like a psuedo Compelled Duel or a Channel Divinity option, but the HP restoration portion of it is tricky. Why does a good paladin gain vitality when their enemy dies? Is this a boon from their "God" to help keep them upright to perservere against the hordes? Does the character only use this against Evil foes, and then its seen as their "god" blessing them? This becomes a much bigger issue at Warlock 6 when you can steal dead foes souls to create a Specter, which is NOT good and also steals vitality.
The flavor behind a lot of Hexblade in general is not themed completely well to work with what would be considered a Paladin, but I think it has lovely roleplay implications.
Mechanically there is no reason to take levels in Paladin. The character thinks their powers come from an oath they took but it turns out they made a deal with a genie instead of swearing a sacred oath. Remember that there is a whole paladin subclass whose whole sacred oath is basically "do cool stuff".
Unless your setting is full of weird meta (like people actually referring to themselves by character classes), in which case you just have to talk to your DM, your character works fine as they are.
Nah, he won't be referring to himself as a Paladin. When I refer to him wanting to be a paladin I mean that he wants to be a knight who can use smite, and all the paladin powers. He's just going to have a very shallow/bland personality and lack the conviction to actually make an oath successfully.
My main reasoning for taking a level or two was for med armor/shield proficiencies. Plus I'd get lay on hands, smite, and a couple extra spells. But the big thing was I didn't want to be playing a knight-like character with light armor and no shield.
My main reasoning for taking a level or two was for med armor/shield proficiencies. Plus I'd get lay on hands, smite, and a couple extra spells. But the big thing was I didn't want to be playing a knight-like character with light armor and no shield.
If you aren't planning on taking more than a couple levels of paladin, then it would certainly be more synergistic with a warlock multiclass (since they both rely on Charisma for many of their abilities). Since the "Oath" aspect of paladin occurs at 3rd level, you can maintain that lack of conviction by him never progressing beyond a 2nd-level paladin.
Having said that, you could take some fighter levels and still mimic most of those paladin abilities via your warlock pact, invocations, and spells. Not quite the same thing, but your genie-based warlock could be a pseudo-paladin or paladin-like with some of the following applications:
Fighter Multiclass: Assuming that you're starting as a warlock, adding a fighter level provides proficiency with martial weapons, medium armor, and shields. So your warlock can now dress and fight much more like the knight that he wants to be.
Fighting Style: Also obtained from multiclassing with fighter. You can choose one of the paladin’s normal options or even take something more fitting to your particular design.
Detect Good and Evil (Expanded Spell): Taken from your Genie patron’s expanded spell list. Similar to the paladin’s ability to Divine Sense, you can locate celestials, fiends, undead, and even more. Costs a spell slot, but it’s a similar (and more powerful) effect.
Pact of the Blade: Needed more so for some of the invocations being mentioned below, but it's probably the most thematic pact with the whole "knightly" persona your character wants to present. Creating your own "holy weapon" as you wade into combat certainly adds to the imagery of being a chosen warrior.
Eldritch Smite (Invocation): Allows you to smite your enemies albeit with force damage versus radiant damage. However, you still gain the ability to smite.
Thirsting Blade (Invocation): Allows you to attack twice, which makes you more of a warrior than just a caster. Alternatively, you could get Extra Attack by taking 5-levels in fighter instead, but I wasn’t sure how many levels other than warlock you wanted.
Again, taking a couple levels of paladin would be potentially easier and more effective, but you can certainly replicate the abilities given enough time and levels. A level of fighter would provide the basics that you cannot easily get with a Genie warlock, and any extra levels just provide some bonus abilities if you want those versus taking warlock levels.
The "issue", and to me as a DM it wouldn't even be a really big one is how does that character flavor the inherently NOT divine features of Warlock, specifically Hexblade since you want smites. Hexblades Curse honestly can be flavored to work as like a psuedo Compelled Duel or a Channel Divinity option, but the HP restoration portion of it is tricky. Why does a good paladin gain vitality when their enemy dies? Is this a boon from their "God" to help keep them upright to perservere against the hordes? Does the character only use this against Evil foes, and then its seen as their "god" blessing them? This becomes a much bigger issue at Warlock 6 when you can steal dead foes souls to create a Specter, which is NOT good and also steals vitality.
Depending on how a player/DM is reflavors their particular hexblade warlock, but I could see the Accursed Specter ability being played out as more of a Penitent Soul ability instead. The concept being that your paladin-like warlock is giving the spirit (i.e., specter) one last day to help atone for some of their sins in life. Certainly, a bit of a stretch, but I can see some potential flexibility in interpretation if the DM is willing.
This is great, thank you! I’m definitely planning to go Pact of the Blade. And Eldritch Smite and Thirsting Blade sound like great choices.
It sounds like fighter and Paladin would both be good options, depending on what I’m going for. I think I’m going to leave it up to role play. Im trying to imagine how the character will feel when he realizes the truth of his situation. I don’t know if he’d turn away from the Paladin image or not. I’ll probably go 2 levels into Paladin or fighter and 6 into warlock. But after that, if the character has matured, then I could see putting more into fighter/Paladin.
And my DM is the best. He’s totally into the whole facade and fully supports reflavoring traits to fit the Paladin image. I’m actually planning to (in the beginning) only use Eldritch Blast when I’m in melee range, because I want my character to he can only do it like a Paladin does along with making an attack. He’s supposed to be a dense character. Some of the powers will be able to be reflavored, but the ones that stick out I think he’s going to be so full of himself that he just thinks he’s a “special” Paladin.
I’ll try to keep it short, and cut it most the backstory. I wanted to make a character who is primarily a warlock(Genie) but thinks their powers are from being a Paladin. My first thought was to take 2 levels in Paladin then stick with warlock. But then I thought about instead talking a level or two of fighter. I like was Paladin gets me (smite, healing, and a couple spells); but I don’t know if I like that it locks him into him becoming a Paladin in the future (through eventual character growth). Maybe when his finds out the truth he would want to leave the Paladin thing behind. If so then would fighter make him a believable Paladin, but also let him go elsewhere in the future? Thoughts? I’m open to any and all criticism! Thanks!
Hexblade warlocks get some smites anyway, so you could absolutely go that route and still be able to do some paladin-y stuff without actually taking levels in it
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I should have included that it’s Genie warlock for plot reasons. I’m trying to be melee-y without going hexblade
So I'm going to change some of your wording.
Paladins per the PHB - "Different paladins focus on various aspects of the cause of righteousness, but all are bound by the oaths that grant them power to do their sacred work. Although many paladins are devoted to gods of good, a paladin’s power comes as much from a commitment to justice itself as it does from a god."
Paladins aren't nearly as restrictive as they were in recent editions, but essentially they get their powers either from a God and the Tenets of that god(Oath) or in deityless settings, more about upholding those ideals and that is what empowers them.
Warlocks per the PHB - "A warlock is defined by a pact with an otherworldly being. Sometimes the relationship between warlock and patron is like that of a cleric and a deity, though the beings that serve as patrons for warlocks are not gods. A warlock might lead a cult dedicated to a demon prince, an archdevil, or an utterly alien entity—beings not typically served by clerics. More often, though, the arrangement is similar to that between a master and an apprentice. The warlock learns and grows in power, at the cost of occasional services performed on the patron’s behalf."
Now this is interesting because it implictly states they aren't God themselves, it doesn't mean that the being isn't an intermediary for a God. It also doesn't state anything about the relationship of a Patron to its Warlock other than sometimes the Warlock will do stuff that the Patron would want. That honestly aligns very well with what a Paladin is going to do, a God wants the Paladin to follow its Oath/Tenets to aid in serving it. In other settings without Gods, that Paladin is going to follow the tenets of their Oath.
The "issue", and to me as a DM it wouldn't even be a really big one is how does that character flavor the inherently NOT divine features of Warlock, specifically Hexblade since you want smites. Hexblades Curse honestly can be flavored to work as like a psuedo Compelled Duel or a Channel Divinity option, but the HP restoration portion of it is tricky. Why does a good paladin gain vitality when their enemy dies? Is this a boon from their "God" to help keep them upright to perservere against the hordes? Does the character only use this against Evil foes, and then its seen as their "god" blessing them? This becomes a much bigger issue at Warlock 6 when you can steal dead foes souls to create a Specter, which is NOT good and also steals vitality.
The flavor behind a lot of Hexblade in general is not themed completely well to work with what would be considered a Paladin, but I think it has lovely roleplay implications.
Mechanically there is no reason to take levels in Paladin. The character thinks their powers come from an oath they took but it turns out they made a deal with a genie instead of swearing a sacred oath. Remember that there is a whole paladin subclass whose whole sacred oath is basically "do cool stuff".
Unless your setting is full of weird meta (like people actually referring to themselves by character classes), in which case you just have to talk to your DM, your character works fine as they are.
Nah, he won't be referring to himself as a Paladin. When I refer to him wanting to be a paladin I mean that he wants to be a knight who can use smite, and all the paladin powers. He's just going to have a very shallow/bland personality and lack the conviction to actually make an oath successfully.
My main reasoning for taking a level or two was for med armor/shield proficiencies. Plus I'd get lay on hands, smite, and a couple extra spells. But the big thing was I didn't want to be playing a knight-like character with light armor and no shield.
If you aren't planning on taking more than a couple levels of paladin, then it would certainly be more synergistic with a warlock multiclass (since they both rely on Charisma for many of their abilities). Since the "Oath" aspect of paladin occurs at 3rd level, you can maintain that lack of conviction by him never progressing beyond a 2nd-level paladin.
Having said that, you could take some fighter levels and still mimic most of those paladin abilities via your warlock pact, invocations, and spells. Not quite the same thing, but your genie-based warlock could be a pseudo-paladin or paladin-like with some of the following applications:
Again, taking a couple levels of paladin would be potentially easier and more effective, but you can certainly replicate the abilities given enough time and levels. A level of fighter would provide the basics that you cannot easily get with a Genie warlock, and any extra levels just provide some bonus abilities if you want those versus taking warlock levels.
Depending on how a player/DM is reflavors their particular hexblade warlock, but I could see the Accursed Specter ability being played out as more of a Penitent Soul ability instead. The concept being that your paladin-like warlock is giving the spirit (i.e., specter) one last day to help atone for some of their sins in life. Certainly, a bit of a stretch, but I can see some potential flexibility in interpretation if the DM is willing.
This is great, thank you! I’m definitely planning to go Pact of the Blade. And Eldritch Smite and Thirsting Blade sound like great choices.
It sounds like fighter and Paladin would both be good options, depending on what I’m going for. I think I’m going to leave it up to role play. Im trying to imagine how the character will feel when he realizes the truth of his situation. I don’t know if he’d turn away from the Paladin image or not. I’ll probably go 2 levels into Paladin or fighter and 6 into warlock. But after that, if the character has matured, then I could see putting more into fighter/Paladin.
And my DM is the best. He’s totally into the whole facade and fully supports reflavoring traits to fit the Paladin image. I’m actually planning to (in the beginning) only use Eldritch Blast when I’m in melee range, because I want my character to he can only do it like a Paladin does along with making an attack. He’s supposed to be a dense character. Some of the powers will be able to be reflavored, but the ones that stick out I think he’s going to be so full of himself that he just thinks he’s a “special” Paladin.