Well, I'm sure the data was part of what they wanted, but probably not 100% of what they wanted.
Look, we can talk about the people who are developing it(replacable), the teams who support it(replacable), and the everyone behind the scenes who are working it from any other standpoint(replaceable).
What you can't replace is the code that exists today and the data/customer information that has been gathered for 6+ years.
Look, we can talk about the people who are developing it(replacable), the teams who support it(replacable), and the everyone behind the scenes who are working it from any other standpoint(replaceable).
What you can't replace is the code that exists today and the data/customer information that has been gathered for 6+ years.
Other things are bonuses.
Replacing all those people, while doable, has significant costs. I expect Wizards' primary objectives are the technology and the customer base, but "these people have bought our product in the past and might do so again in the future" is not usually what is meant by a 'data grab'.
I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
I could see them selling a bundle on DDB now. You buy the digital material, and for an extra $10-15 you get the book shipped to you. That way you're buying the IP once and then paying for the physical paper/binding.
That's how I would do it now that they are one. I was hoping DDB would work something like the above out prior, but now they Hasbro owns DDB, this should be an easy thing to do.
see thats a problem for me, I purposely buy my books through my local independant gaming shop because otherwise it will go out of business.
Amazon do it with preorder and dlc codes for physical copies of video games. Darrington Press did it with pdf copies of the latest Tal'dorei book (buy the book, get the pdf free) so it should be possible.
This though misses the point, DDB is not just a PDF library, the actual effort to program the rules takes time and effort. You can buy the PDF book on DDB for cheap already, what costs money is all the extra stuff that allows you to have the spells and rules baked into the app. There will need to be some way of covering that cost by WOTC, so either subscription fees go up and the free tier is got rid of, or they charge more for the whole package.
I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
I could see them selling a bundle on DDB now. You buy the digital material, and for an extra $10-15 you get the book shipped to you. That way you're buying the IP once and then paying for the physical paper/binding.
That's how I would do it now that they are one. I was hoping DDB would work something like the above out prior, but now they Hasbro owns DDB, this should be an easy thing to do.
see thats a problem for me, I purposely buy my books through my local independant gaming shop because otherwise it will go out of business.
This sounds like a problem for them?
I'm all for FLGS spaces but facts being facts, digital gaming is a thing and is far more prevalent now in 2022 than it was two years ago because of COVID-19. If a store can't stay open, then it's a business issue because they didn't evolve. D&D Beyond by nature of a purchase is undergoing a forced evolution. Stores would be wise to take notice.
Well, I'm sure the data was part of what they wanted, but probably not 100% of what they wanted.
Look, we can talk about the people who are developing it(replacable), the teams who support it(replacable), and the everyone behind the scenes who are working it from any other standpoint(replaceable).
What you can't replace is the code that exists today and the data/customer information that has been gathered for 6+ years.
Other things are bonuses.
From my experiance being in a tech company that was acquired by a bigger company, and knowing others who have been, I imagine the DDB devs will be given golden handcuff deals to ensure they don't leave for at least 12-18 months. The code base is important, but so are the devs who have worked on it and built it.
It has been mentioned before now that devs have been doing tech debt behind the scenes, this feels very much like it might have been in preparation for this, I know when my company was looking to be bought the devs where asked to ease off on new functionality and instead bring the code base fully up to spec so that when the company was bought there was a good strong codebase that was easier to work on, we where then given a 30-50% bump in salary no questions asked just for signing the contract to move to the new company and after 6, 12 and 18 months where paid a bonus for staying through the "transition and growth period" The managers and directors and senior people slowly left but the devs who knew and understood the code base and architecture where kept because our knowledge was required to make the thing work and make development easier.
Seems like a good thing all around. DDB is a great product, and I'm glad that WOTC was able to see the value in it. Hopefully this means more frequent updates and virtual content now that it's part of the WOTC family.
I’m late to the discussion on it, but I really can't imagine this going poorly for 3rd party VTTs, at least in the short term. The DnD system in those VTTs are build using the SRD not a specific license, so wizards can't just easily "shut them down." Plus they don't have an incentive to do so. Neither DDB nor WOTC have their own official VTT right now. I'm sure if they did create one, they'd do whatever they can to make theirs the most supported and the most attractive to use, but they can't stop others from existing. Most VTTs are system agnostic anyway at the top level - they work with any rpg rules.
What I would love to see is good API support so people can more easily use their content purchased in DDB within the VTT of their choice. That seems like a win win for everyone. It makes DDB purchases more valuable with very little work on the part of WOTC and it makes the experience of playing on a VTT even more streamlined. That may be a pipe dream though - if WOTC has any plans to develop a VTT in the future, then doing this now means they would probably have to take it away later to make their VTT more enticing. That would cause a lot of backlash, so I'm not counting on this happening. Would love to be proven wrong though.
Still I love using DDB and just the assurance that it’s an official WOTC service going forward is definitely a good thing.
I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
I could see them selling a bundle on DDB now. You buy the digital material, and for an extra $10-15 you get the book shipped to you. That way you're buying the IP once and then paying for the physical paper/binding.
That's how I would do it now that they are one. I was hoping DDB would work something like the above out prior, but now they Hasbro owns DDB, this should be an easy thing to do.
see thats a problem for me, I purposely buy my books through my local independant gaming shop because otherwise it will go out of business.
This sounds like a problem for them?
I'm all for FLGS spaces but facts being facts, digital gaming is a thing and is far more prevalent now in 2022 than it was two years ago because of COVID-19. If a store can't stay open, then it's a business issue because they didn't evolve. D&D Beyond by nature of a purchase is undergoing a forced evolution. Stores would be wise to take notice.
Not wanting to take this conversation off track but as much as digital is growing everyone I know who played TTRPG's online during lockdown couldn't wait to get in person, round a table back onto paper and pencils using books. There will always be a place for physical TTRPG's and those small independant shops, which provide gaming space as well as selling books and board games, are a great way to grow the community and help it thrive. It doesn't cost me more to buy from my local supplier.
This though misses the point, DDB is not just a PDF library, the actual effort to program the rules takes time and effort. You can buy the PDF book on DDB for cheap already, what costs money is all the extra stuff that allows you to have the spells and rules baked into the app.
DDB doesn't sell PDFs, it sells documents laid out for the web, which is a quite substantial editing task.
Not only does WotC gain a site that is up and running, but a decent data collection source as well as all your Homebrew to pick through (lol). It is a smart buy on their part.
Not only does WotC gain a site that is up and running, but a decent data collection source as well as all your Homebrew to pick through (lol). It is a smart buy on their part.
I expect WotC will use the usual tactic of companies towards fan ideas on bulletin boards, which is "deliberately not look at them because if you do people will accuse you of stealing their ideas". Actually, they'll accuse you even if you don't look, but you have a more convincing argument for how you didn't do it.
Not only does WotC gain a site that is up and running, but a decent data collection source as well as all your Homebrew to pick through (lol). It is a smart buy on their part.
I expect WotC will use the usual tactic of companies towards fan ideas on bulletin boards, which is "deliberately not look at them because if you do people will accuse you of stealing their ideas". Actually, they'll accuse you even if you don't look, but you have a more convincing argument for how you didn't do it.
The (lol) attached to that part was meant to show that it should not be taken seriously.
Now whenever WotC pulls some bullshit and DDB is involved, they can't say "we're not WotC".
Now whenever I complain to DDB I *am* complaining to WotC.
They better pass along that taking VGM and MToF off the shelves is some absolute bullshit.
***
For as much of a capitalist that I am, honestly I'm mostly worried about this purchase. WotC has been doing nothing but dragging 5e through the dirt for as much as they can get, imo.
Currently the only possible and remotely likely pro that could happen is that DDB finally gets more staff and the website itself improves. Hopefully the finally add all the shit that's missing in the homebrew tools. Or actually get some mods to curate that shit because oh my gods the homebrew section is AWFUL on this website.
I just hope WotC treats DDB like how Hasbro has kinda been with WotC (edit: at least as my very limited eyes have seen, I don't know if this is a genuinely true perception). Hands-off but providing funding, cuz I genuinely don't trust WotC to make good business decisions on DDB's behalf and changing their roadmap. Let alone make a good product.
I'm thinking it's time to change your signature. :D
It's definitely been something that's been preventing me from getting a full paid subscription. Though I imagine trying to figure out how to manage such a thing from an anti-theft standpoint will be tricky. Putting a coupon or a code in a book can be easily stolen by a munchkin digging through all the books in their local game shop.
Maybe the reverse approach could be taken buying the book on DndD Beyond gives the user a certificate with a distinct key code giving them N dollars off the purchase of the same book at their favorite retailer. The retailer submits the certificates and/or list of unique keys for reimbursement from Hasbro/WoTC. Just a thought
I suspect this was the big announcement that was teased just before some WotC event several months ago. There was nothing at the event that (in my opinion) matched the tease in the Dev Update just before the event. I could be wrong, but that's what it seemed like.
As for buying a book with a digital copy, I don't think it's going to be as cheap as everyone expects. There may be a slight reduction in total price, but it won't be much.
It's definitely been something that's been preventing me from getting a full paid subscription. Though I imagine trying to figure out how to manage such a thing from an anti-theft standpoint will be tricky. Putting a coupon or a code in a book can be easily stolen by a munchkin digging through all the books in their local game shop.
Maybe the reverse approach could be taken buying the book on DndD Beyond gives the user a certificate with a distinct key code giving them N dollars off the purchase of the same book at their favorite retailer. The retailer submits the certificates and/or list of unique keys for reimbursement from Hasbro/WoTC. Just a thought
As much as I know many, many people want this to be the case, it would still be tricky. There has to be some level of buy-in from vendors, and there isn't really any way for WotC to enforce this. If Amazon (or any other online retailer) says they don't want to implement it, I doubt that WotC is going to force them or stop selling to them. At least for online retailers, implementing a way of recognizing and applying any discounts will take development/integration work, and many might not have the time or ability or desire to do that. Offline stores might not want to implement it because developing and managing the business processes of tracking and redemption aren't worth it to them. If WotC can't get a majority buy-in from most retailers, then you get lots of pissed off DDB customers who can't get their discounted book.
I'm not saying that it won't happen, just that in my opinion it seems unlikely and it's not anywhere near as simple as some people seem to think it will be.
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Well, I'm sure the data was part of what they wanted, but probably not 100% of what they wanted.
I'm curious about all the implications this will have.
Look, we can talk about the people who are developing it(replacable), the teams who support it(replacable), and the everyone behind the scenes who are working it from any other standpoint(replaceable).
What you can't replace is the code that exists today and the data/customer information that has been gathered for 6+ years.
Other things are bonuses.
Replacing all those people, while doable, has significant costs. I expect Wizards' primary objectives are the technology and the customer base, but "these people have bought our product in the past and might do so again in the future" is not usually what is meant by a 'data grab'.
see thats a problem for me, I purposely buy my books through my local independant gaming shop because otherwise it will go out of business.
This though misses the point, DDB is not just a PDF library, the actual effort to program the rules takes time and effort. You can buy the PDF book on DDB for cheap already, what costs money is all the extra stuff that allows you to have the spells and rules baked into the app. There will need to be some way of covering that cost by WOTC, so either subscription fees go up and the free tier is got rid of, or they charge more for the whole package.
This sounds like a problem for them?
I'm all for FLGS spaces but facts being facts, digital gaming is a thing and is far more prevalent now in 2022 than it was two years ago because of COVID-19. If a store can't stay open, then it's a business issue because they didn't evolve. D&D Beyond by nature of a purchase is undergoing a forced evolution. Stores would be wise to take notice.
From my experiance being in a tech company that was acquired by a bigger company, and knowing others who have been, I imagine the DDB devs will be given golden handcuff deals to ensure they don't leave for at least 12-18 months. The code base is important, but so are the devs who have worked on it and built it.
It has been mentioned before now that devs have been doing tech debt behind the scenes, this feels very much like it might have been in preparation for this, I know when my company was looking to be bought the devs where asked to ease off on new functionality and instead bring the code base fully up to spec so that when the company was bought there was a good strong codebase that was easier to work on, we where then given a 30-50% bump in salary no questions asked just for signing the contract to move to the new company and after 6, 12 and 18 months where paid a bonus for staying through the "transition and growth period" The managers and directors and senior people slowly left but the devs who knew and understood the code base and architecture where kept because our knowledge was required to make the thing work and make development easier.
My gaming group, who don't use DNDBeyond:
Wasn't it already? Who used to own it?
:)
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
Ariendela Sneakerson, Half-elf Rogue (8); Harmony Wolfsbane, Tiefling Bard (10); Agnomally, Gnomish Sorcerer (3); Breeze, Tabaxi Monk (8); Grace, Dragonborn Barbarian (7); DM, Homebrew- The Sequestered Lands/Underwater Explorers; Candlekeep
Seems like a good thing all around. DDB is a great product, and I'm glad that WOTC was able to see the value in it. Hopefully this means more frequent updates and virtual content now that it's part of the WOTC family.
I’m late to the discussion on it, but I really can't imagine this going poorly for 3rd party VTTs, at least in the short term. The DnD system in those VTTs are build using the SRD not a specific license, so wizards can't just easily "shut them down." Plus they don't have an incentive to do so. Neither DDB nor WOTC have their own official VTT right now. I'm sure if they did create one, they'd do whatever they can to make theirs the most supported and the most attractive to use, but they can't stop others from existing. Most VTTs are system agnostic anyway at the top level - they work with any rpg rules.
What I would love to see is good API support so people can more easily use their content purchased in DDB within the VTT of their choice. That seems like a win win for everyone. It makes DDB purchases more valuable with very little work on the part of WOTC and it makes the experience of playing on a VTT even more streamlined. That may be a pipe dream though - if WOTC has any plans to develop a VTT in the future, then doing this now means they would probably have to take it away later to make their VTT more enticing. That would cause a lot of backlash, so I'm not counting on this happening. Would love to be proven wrong though.
Still I love using DDB and just the assurance that it’s an official WOTC service going forward is definitely a good thing.
Not wanting to take this conversation off track but as much as digital is growing everyone I know who played TTRPG's online during lockdown couldn't wait to get in person, round a table back onto paper and pencils using books. There will always be a place for physical TTRPG's and those small independant shops, which provide gaming space as well as selling books and board games, are a great way to grow the community and help it thrive. It doesn't cost me more to buy from my local supplier.
DDB doesn't sell PDFs, it sells documents laid out for the web, which is a quite substantial editing task.
Not only does WotC gain a site that is up and running, but a decent data collection source as well as all your Homebrew to pick through (lol). It is a smart buy on their part.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
You don’t you keep old digital content as is but make all new purchases on the platform have the change.
I expect WotC will use the usual tactic of companies towards fan ideas on bulletin boards, which is "deliberately not look at them because if you do people will accuse you of stealing their ideas". Actually, they'll accuse you even if you don't look, but you have a more convincing argument for how you didn't do it.
The (lol) attached to that part was meant to show that it should not be taken seriously.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
shit you right
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
It's definitely been something that's been preventing me from getting a full paid subscription. Though I imagine trying to figure out how to manage such a thing from an anti-theft standpoint will be tricky. Putting a coupon or a code in a book can be easily stolen by a munchkin digging through all the books in their local game shop.
Maybe the reverse approach could be taken buying the book on DndD Beyond gives the user a certificate with a distinct key code giving them N dollars off the purchase of the same book at their favorite retailer. The retailer submits the certificates and/or list of unique keys for reimbursement from Hasbro/WoTC. Just a thought
I suspect this was the big announcement that was teased just before some WotC event several months ago. There was nothing at the event that (in my opinion) matched the tease in the Dev Update just before the event. I could be wrong, but that's what it seemed like.
As for buying a book with a digital copy, I don't think it's going to be as cheap as everyone expects. There may be a slight reduction in total price, but it won't be much.
As much as I know many, many people want this to be the case, it would still be tricky. There has to be some level of buy-in from vendors, and there isn't really any way for WotC to enforce this. If Amazon (or any other online retailer) says they don't want to implement it, I doubt that WotC is going to force them or stop selling to them. At least for online retailers, implementing a way of recognizing and applying any discounts will take development/integration work, and many might not have the time or ability or desire to do that. Offline stores might not want to implement it because developing and managing the business processes of tracking and redemption aren't worth it to them. If WotC can't get a majority buy-in from most retailers, then you get lots of pissed off DDB customers who can't get their discounted book.
I'm not saying that it won't happen, just that in my opinion it seems unlikely and it's not anywhere near as simple as some people seem to think it will be.