I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
AboveVTT is a very basic VTT currently, largely because it is being developed by I believe a couple of guys in there spare time for free and being made available for free.
Please, enough discussion on the merits of purchasing AboveVTT. There has been a very common narrative of trying to 'sell' or 'pitch' the VTT for buyout and the frequency of posts on this topic. At this point, it almost feels like advertising or solicitation and really doesn't hold a contributive nature within these threads.
But I was blind sided by this, was there any previous indication something like this was in the works?
nope there never is with acquisitions like this, I imagine the initial talks started 9-12 months ago, sounding out, getting an idea on potential value, working out the logistics. I imagine everyone involved signed NDA's and the only reason it is being announced now as opposed to the day it actually happens is because it is the end of the financial year and Wizards will have to announce they have set aside the 140+ million for the acquisition in there accounts for tax reasons, if it is earmarked as capital expenditure in the forthcoming financial year they don;t have to pay tax on it for 21-22. Usually the announcement would be, DnD beyond has been bought by Wizards, not, we are soon going to be.
Just sometimes, the seals break and you get rumors or whiffs of whispers that leak out. The fact this big of a deal went through so secretly is amazing to me.
I’m hoping that WoTC and DnDBeyond begin offering much more robust home brewing options now that it’s the one stop shop for DnD Material. I also hope we can see DMsGuild material start to get ported to DnDBeyond
I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
If someone wants a physical copy bundled with a digital copy, then it's easy. They buy the bundled digital copy first, and the physical copy gets shipped to them. No need to have an actual code in the physical copy. They get digital access right away, then their physical copy in a week or so.
You don't have to worry about your stuff disappearing when WoTC moves to 5.5 or 6.0
Codes for D&D Beyond content could start appearing in print books.
WoTC could start offering more digital-only material.
A few questions I have:
What does this mean for DM's Guild?
Will D&D Beyond be able to offer 3rd party books?
Is a VTT option coming "soon"?
Yep. We won’t have to explain to people every few weeks that DDB is not WotC when they complain about having the hardcover and have to pay again for buying digital to use non-SRD. At least hopefully that will be the case eventually.
Unless they start selling all books sealed, I'm really not sure how the logistics behind that is going to work. I mean, I hope it does, I'm just not sure how. What I'm really hoping for is physical/digital prerelease bundles now.
Wonder if they could do some sort of scratch off within the book...or possibly have a link to where you have to register an email to get it...hmm...
Ok so this could be big news or a flop. So now that WOTC owns DDB could we see the end of double purchasing content? At lease it would be nice to get one for buying the other if you have a paid DDB subscription. This would add value and increase product loyalty and garner appreciation for your clients and customers. I hope this is the thought process.
I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
I could see them selling a bundle on DDB now. You buy the digital material, and for an extra $10-15 you get the book shipped to you. That way you're buying the IP once and then paying for the physical paper/binding.
That's how I would do it now that they are one. I was hoping DDB would work something like the above out prior, but now they Hasbro owns DDB, this should be an easy thing to do.
I can see something like that starting, but I see more along the lines of linking your Amazon account to your DDB account and then amazon shipping you a copy of the book to stop the price of international shipping which can be high. I live in Canada and the last time I bought books from a USA source the shipping was almost the same price as the books, where my books from amazon.ca are shipped free due to prime membership.
I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
I could see them selling a bundle on DDB now. You buy the digital material, and for an extra $10-15 you get the book shipped to you. That way you're buying the IP once and then paying for the physical paper/binding.
That's how I would do it now that they are one. I was hoping DDB would work something like the above out prior, but now they Hasbro owns DDB, this should be an easy thing to do.
I can see something like that starting, but I see more along the lines of linking your Amazon account to your DDB account and then amazon shipping you a copy of the book to stop the price of international shipping which can be high. I live in Canada and the last time I bought books from a USA source the shipping was almost the same price as the books, where my books from amazon.ca are shipped free due to prime membership.
I really hope that's not what happens. I stopped using Amazon about 6 months ago and haven't looked back.
Amazon do it with preorder and dlc codes for physical copies of video games. Darrington Press did it with pdf copies of the latest Tal'dorei book (buy the book, get the pdf free) so it should be possible.
I don't know if we'll see codes in books, but I wouldn't be surprised if they worked something out where if you can prove ownership, you can gain access in DDB. Think of it as a way to drive users to their platform rather than self-competition.
Exactly. People come up with excuses, but other companies do it. So far, the main convincing reason why WotC couldn't do it was because they didn't have the capacity. DDB could, but had to make money somehow, and so we had them separated. That restriction is gone now.
I'd be shocked if they don't do something. It could be codes in books, but that's just one method. I could easily see then still charging for DDB, but with a discount for it. You pay $30 for DDB, $40 for the book, or $50 for both. They will be doing something, though.
how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
If someone wants a physical copy bundled with a digital copy, then it's easy. They buy the bundled digital copy first, and the physical copy gets shipped to them. No need to have an actual code in the physical copy. They get digital access right away, then their physical copy in a week or so.
I mean, we can dream... but I just don't see why they would do it, when the current model is proven to be profitable (probably a major reason they acquired DDB), and they are not hurting for business in either of those two formats (physical or digital). And as others have demonstrated, it would get messy.
The main problem I see is with existing customers who've already purchased physical books... how do you extend a bundle deal to them (i.e. what's they're proof-of-purchase)? And even if you solve for that, think of the thousands of customers who've already paid for both physical and digital copies, those who own both versions of one or more books... do they get $$ back? because WotC isn't just going to write them checks. Any bundle scheme you come up that significantly lowers the price-to-customer of existing content, like the core rule books, leaves early adopters reeling from having way overpaid. And if WotC can't extend the deal to them, are they okay with royally pissing off and potentially driving away some of their biggest-spending repeat customers?
At the end of the day, I just can't think of a way to pull off anything like this without causing more harm than good from a business perspective (which is the only reason a company does anything).
But hey, I'll keep my fingers crossed like everyone else.
Now whenever WotC pulls some bullshit and DDB is involved, they can't say "we're not WotC".
Now whenever I complain to DDB I *am* complaining to WotC.
They better pass along that taking VGM and MToF off the shelves is some absolute bullshit.
***
For as much of a capitalist that I am, honestly I'm mostly worried about this purchase. WotC has been doing nothing but dragging 5e through the dirt for as much as they can get, imo.
Currently the only possible and remotely likely pro that could happen is that DDB finally gets more staff and the website itself improves. Hopefully the finally add all the shit that's missing in the homebrew tools. Or actually get some mods to curate that shit because oh my gods the homebrew section is AWFUL on this website.
I just hope WotC treats DDB like how Hasbro has kinda been with WotC (edit: at least as my very limited eyes have seen, I don't know if this is a genuinely true perception). Hands-off but providing funding, cuz I genuinely don't trust WotC to make good business decisions on DDB's behalf and changing their roadmap. Let alone make a good product.
Now whenever WotC pulls some bullshit and DDB is involved, they can't say "we're not WotC".
Now whenever I complain to DDB I *am* complaining to WotC.
They better pass along that taking VGM and MToF off the shelves is some absolute bullshit.
***
For as much of a capitalist that I am, honestly I'm mostly worried about this purchase. WotC has been doing nothing but dragging 5e through the dirt for as much as they can get, imo.
Currently the only possible and remotely likely pro that could happen is that DDB finally gets more staff and the website itself improves. Hopefully the finally add all the shit that's missing in the homebrew tools. Or actually get some mods to curate that shit because oh my gods the homebrew section is AWFUL on this website.
I just hope WotC treats DDB like how Hasbro has kinda been with WotC (edit: at least as my very limited eyes have seen, I don't know if this is a genuinely true perception). Hands-off but providing funding, cuz I genuinely don't trust WotC to make good business decisions on DDB's behalf and changing their roadmap. Let alone make a good product.
I'm thinking it's time to change your signature. :D
Well, I'm glad that this should mean that stuff I've bought here should keep being useful moving forward, but I'm also worried because of the ridiculous decisions that have been being made recently. Their leadership is suspect at best.
I suspect the reason for this is that Wizards wants to be able to present electronic content on their ownwebsite, and they could either spend a whole bunch of time and money building and promoting their own, or they could buy a company that was already doing it -- and if there's a company out there that's already doing a good job and is willing to be bought for a reasonable price, that's consistently going to be a better option.
As for what this means: I wouldn't be surprised if we get a new URL, but other than that I expect the short term would just be eliminating redundancy (for example, online store platforms); DDB already did a pretty good job of encouraging people to buy WotC products, so I'm not sure why that would change. It does give WotC access to DDBs subscriber lists, but it's not like DDB doesn't already target us with ads, so it just changes who we're getting the ads from.
I'm obviously just guessing, but I would think the raw data on users and how they interact with the site, etc. will also have an impact on current and future product development on some level that probably wasn't happening previously.
I'm obviously just guessing, but I would think the raw data on users and how they interact with the site, etc. will also have an impact on current and future product development on some level that probably wasn't happening previously.
Oh it was 100% a data grab. You have millions of accounts who are building things, and now that it's an officially owned thing by Wizards there shouldn't be this disconnect. HextTherapy mentioned their previous attempts at the digital landscape and I think it's telling that Wizards was willing to buy what Adam Bradford originally built here and is now building at Nexus. This isn't to discredit the work of the people currently building things here, but IP is everything and sometimes the only way to get ahead is just buy out what already exists.
Overall, I'm excited for sure. I hope this means the return of Unearthed Arcana being officially supported.
I do hope they start adding the Extralife stuff back to DDB as I got all of it from here until they stopped and it is a great charity that does great work helping those that really need it and deserve it.
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how do you do it though, I can't think of a foolproof way that would work at scale, so am interested how you see it working?
Please, enough discussion on the merits of purchasing AboveVTT. There has been a very common narrative of trying to 'sell' or 'pitch' the VTT for buyout and the frequency of posts on this topic. At this point, it almost feels like advertising or solicitation and really doesn't hold a contributive nature within these threads.
nope there never is with acquisitions like this, I imagine the initial talks started 9-12 months ago, sounding out, getting an idea on potential value, working out the logistics. I imagine everyone involved signed NDA's and the only reason it is being announced now as opposed to the day it actually happens is because it is the end of the financial year and Wizards will have to announce they have set aside the 140+ million for the acquisition in there accounts for tax reasons, if it is earmarked as capital expenditure in the forthcoming financial year they don;t have to pay tax on it for 21-22. Usually the announcement would be, DnD beyond has been bought by Wizards, not, we are soon going to be.
Good rundown, thanks Scarloc.
Just sometimes, the seals break and you get rumors or whiffs of whispers that leak out. The fact this big of a deal went through so secretly is amazing to me.
I’m hoping that WoTC and DnDBeyond begin offering much more robust home brewing options now that it’s the one stop shop for DnD Material. I also hope we can see DMsGuild material start to get ported to DnDBeyond
If someone wants a physical copy bundled with a digital copy, then it's easy. They buy the bundled digital copy first, and the physical copy gets shipped to them. No need to have an actual code in the physical copy. They get digital access right away, then their physical copy in a week or so.
Wonder if they could do some sort of scratch off within the book...or possibly have a link to where you have to register an email to get it...hmm...
Ok so this could be big news or a flop. So now that WOTC owns DDB could we see the end of double purchasing content? At lease it would be nice to get one for buying the other if you have a paid DDB subscription. This would add value and increase product loyalty and garner appreciation for your clients and customers. I hope this is the thought process.
https://dnd.wizards.com/news/announcement_04132022
The "party time!" wizard, maybe?
Either way, congrats DDB!
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
I can see something like that starting, but I see more along the lines of linking your Amazon account to your DDB account and then amazon shipping you a copy of the book to stop the price of international shipping which can be high. I live in Canada and the last time I bought books from a USA source the shipping was almost the same price as the books, where my books from amazon.ca are shipped free due to prime membership.
I really hope that's not what happens. I stopped using Amazon about 6 months ago and haven't looked back.
Amazon do it with preorder and dlc codes for physical copies of video games. Darrington Press did it with pdf copies of the latest Tal'dorei book (buy the book, get the pdf free) so it should be possible.
I mean, we can dream... but I just don't see why they would do it, when the current model is proven to be profitable (probably a major reason they acquired DDB), and they are not hurting for business in either of those two formats (physical or digital). And as others have demonstrated, it would get messy.
The main problem I see is with existing customers who've already purchased physical books... how do you extend a bundle deal to them (i.e. what's they're proof-of-purchase)? And even if you solve for that, think of the thousands of customers who've already paid for both physical and digital copies, those who own both versions of one or more books... do they get $$ back? because WotC isn't just going to write them checks. Any bundle scheme you come up that significantly lowers the price-to-customer of existing content, like the core rule books, leaves early adopters reeling from having way overpaid. And if WotC can't extend the deal to them, are they okay with royally pissing off and potentially driving away some of their biggest-spending repeat customers?
At the end of the day, I just can't think of a way to pull off anything like this without causing more harm than good from a business perspective (which is the only reason a company does anything).
But hey, I'll keep my fingers crossed like everyone else.
Now whenever WotC pulls some bullshit and DDB is involved, they can't say "we're not WotC".
Now whenever I complain to DDB I *am* complaining to WotC.
They better pass along that taking VGM and MToF off the shelves is some absolute bullshit.
***
For as much of a capitalist that I am, honestly I'm mostly worried about this purchase. WotC has been doing nothing but dragging 5e through the dirt for as much as they can get, imo.
Currently the only possible and remotely likely pro that could happen is that DDB finally gets more staff and the website itself improves. Hopefully the finally add all the shit that's missing in the homebrew tools. Or actually get some mods to curate that shit because oh my gods the homebrew section is AWFUL on this website.
I just hope WotC treats DDB like how Hasbro has kinda been with WotC (edit: at least as my very limited eyes have seen, I don't know if this is a genuinely true perception). Hands-off but providing funding, cuz I genuinely don't trust WotC to make good business decisions on DDB's behalf and changing their roadmap. Let alone make a good product.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
I'm thinking it's time to change your signature. :D
Well, I'm glad that this should mean that stuff I've bought here should keep being useful moving forward, but I'm also worried because of the ridiculous decisions that have been being made recently. Their leadership is suspect at best.
I suspect the reason for this is that Wizards wants to be able to present electronic content on their own website, and they could either spend a whole bunch of time and money building and promoting their own, or they could buy a company that was already doing it -- and if there's a company out there that's already doing a good job and is willing to be bought for a reasonable price, that's consistently going to be a better option.
As for what this means: I wouldn't be surprised if we get a new URL, but other than that I expect the short term would just be eliminating redundancy (for example, online store platforms); DDB already did a pretty good job of encouraging people to buy WotC products, so I'm not sure why that would change. It does give WotC access to DDBs subscriber lists, but it's not like DDB doesn't already target us with ads, so it just changes who we're getting the ads from.
I'm obviously just guessing, but I would think the raw data on users and how they interact with the site, etc. will also have an impact on current and future product development on some level that probably wasn't happening previously.
Oh it was 100% a data grab. You have millions of accounts who are building things, and now that it's an officially owned thing by Wizards there shouldn't be this disconnect. HextTherapy mentioned their previous attempts at the digital landscape and I think it's telling that Wizards was willing to buy what Adam Bradford originally built here and is now building at Nexus. This isn't to discredit the work of the people currently building things here, but IP is everything and sometimes the only way to get ahead is just buy out what already exists.
Overall, I'm excited for sure. I hope this means the return of Unearthed Arcana being officially supported.
I do hope they start adding the Extralife stuff back to DDB as I got all of it from here until they stopped and it is a great charity that does great work helping those that really need it and deserve it.