I see where you're coming from, but it doesn't make sense. Take the gentle option - there is no effect listed. That's...a wasted L5 spell slot right there.
OP literally described a scenario where a storm was threatening their airship, and that "wasted spell slot" created a pocket within the storm to protect them from it
That only works if you're controlling the winds and not just adding to them, because creating a calm gust would does Jack in that situation, but if you made the winds become calm then it could work...which supports my point. There is a contrast between creating and controlling winds...and the spell seems to lean towards controlling, not creating.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I see where you're coming from, but it doesn't make sense. Take the gentle option - there is no effect listed. That's...a wasted L5 spell slot right there.
OP literally described a scenario where a storm was threatening their airship, and that "wasted spell slot" created a pocket within the storm to protect them from it
That's a great point. The DM already concluded that the spell can turn raging wind into a calm breeze -- that's not why he was protecting the air elemental.
Some will steadfastly argue that the rules clearly state that a creature is not an object, and that the spell does not apply to creatures, so by the Rules As Written the air elemental would be unaffected by the spell.
Control Winds makes no mention of objects. The air elemental is certainly affected by the spell, it's just a question of whether it's affected as air would be affected, or merely as a creature would be affected. This monster is both air and a creature, so there's your conundrum.
Let me be clear here -- what I'm saying is RAW. The rules as written demand for a DM to make a ruling. That's something the rules as written do from time to time.
Control Winds makes no mention of objects. The air elemental is certainly affected by the spell, it's just a question of whether it's affected as air would be affected, or merely as a creature would be affected. This monster is both air and a creature, so there's your conundrum.
Let me be clear here -- what I'm saying is RAW. The rules as written demand for a DM to make a ruling. That's something the rules as written do from time to time.
My personal ruling would be that it would just act as a creature. Wind is caused by mere physics of atoms colliding, coriolis effects etc. An Air Elemental has a consciousness and will that binds it, therefore it isn't under the same constraints. I might consider it disrupted, acting like Banishment, but the lack of spell save concerns me. Then again, it is a higher spell slot and it is less powerful (no permanent banishments and it only works on an Air Elemental, so I don't know. That is a homebrew ruling though.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Some other effects (even spell effects) can be dispersed by a string wind. Using the calm option could keep an ally’s Cloudkill in place so it has its uses.
As for the “blasts of air” the elemental has whirlwind attack if it is in a creatures space (it’s large size so covers 4 squares so can be multiple creatures in the elemental’s space) that pushes up to 20’ so they do have that ability that is flavored as blasts of air with no home brew
A good question that this brings up is even though I don’t think control winds would affect an air elemental does it have any affect on wind based spells? Can you cast Gust of Wind in a calm controlled area?
Eh my point isn't that forcing a calm wind doesn't have uses, cause ofc it does, see the example listed in the op, using it to stop an air elemental's whirlwind attack.
My point is that as written, doing the calm option doesn't actually do that. It just adds a calm wind on-top of whatever is currently going on. The spell clearly says that you create a calm gust of wind, and as I noted there's no language saying that the spell could be used to stop other spells like Warding Wind and not even any language saying that it'd even stop a naturally occurring strong wind.
It just sounds like if you tried to stop a tornado with this, you'd still be getting hit by a tornado it's just an additional faint breeze would caresses your flung about-to-be-dead body.
But that seems against the whole point of the spell, being that it controls the wind, not adds to the wind. Of course, names don't always match up with what it's intended to do, but this case is special in that it seems weird a 5th level spell would have a written option to do literally nothing.
Edit: Either way, this disconnect between controlling and adding onto the wind seems to be the root cause of confusion on how the spell interacts with other wind-based spells/creatures.
Control doesn't have an in-game meaning, and common-sense tells me control just means I make it do stuff, in particular the spell defines what I can control the air to do, none of which includes forcing all air to be calm.
From how I read it, picking the calm gust option just allows you to "control the air to create a small light breeze" which to me is completely different than "remove & prevent all ongoing wind and wind-related spells", even if I think the spell should do the latter.
As for the “blasts of air” the elemental has whirlwind attack if it is in a creatures space (it’s large size so covers 4 squares so can be multiple creatures in the elemental’s space) that pushes up to 20’ so they do have that ability that is flavored as blasts of air with no home brew
The whirlwind attack sends targets in random directions if they fail their save, which is not what OP was describing, i.e "As the air elemental commences trying to gust me off the ship"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Control Wind has no effect on an Air Elemental except for the effect on creatures within the three options granted by Gusts, Downdraft & Updraft
an Air Elemental is not “air” that can be interacted with by the Control Winds spell, an Air Elemental is an Elemental Spirit in the form of air. It is a spirit from the elemental plane of air, incarnate and made manifest in a bodily form. The same goes for an invisible stalker and also water elementals and the control water spell
I really don't understand why people are still arguing.
This is a game. It's make believe. If one DM at one table says the spell won't work, that's fine. If a different DM at a different table says it will, that's fine too. It's their table. It's not your table. It's not your group. It's not your decision. Why is everybody getting so upset about something that has literally zero effect on them?
Do people really just enjoy arguing that much?
It's a game. As long as they're having fun, they're doing it right. Stop trying to tell people that they're having fun wrong. Please. Just let people have their fun.
I really don't understand why people are still arguing.
This is a game. It's make believe. If one DM at one table says the spell won't work, that's fine. If a different DM at a different table says it will, that's fine too. It's their table. It's not your table. It's not your group. It's not your decision. Why is everybody getting so upset about something that has literally zero effect on them?
Do people really just enjoy arguing that much?
It's a game. As long as they're having fun, they're doing it right. Stop trying to tell people that they're having fun wrong. Please. Just let people have their fun.
Jeez.
Hello,
If I cast control winds and make them calm in a 100 ft cube, can an air elemental enter that cube and begin using wind to push people around? Or isn't the air controlled in that space and the air elemental is therefore also controlled?
The OP asked the questions. Everyone here is answering the questions and debating with one another about those answers. This is the whole point of this thread.
To clarify, from my perspective the air elemental was trying to gust me off the ship. In reality, I don't actually know what the air elemental was using. All I know is that my DM said I felt the wind gusting around me and I needed to do a save roll, at which point I started arguing that the air around me was supposed to be controlled. At which point my DM informed me that it was an air elemental in my area. So could have been whirlwind attack, not sure.
As a side note, my DM and I have come up with a compromise. The caster of Control Winds and the Air Elemental will have to do an opposed magic check. If the Air Elemental wins the check it's magic allows it to control the winds that consist of itself, whereas if the caster wins the check it's magic overpowers the Air Elemental such that it's air is controlled as described in the spell. For instance, drifting to the edge of the 100 ft cube.
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That only works if you're controlling the winds and not just adding to them, because creating a calm gust would does Jack in that situation, but if you made the winds become calm then it could work...which supports my point. There is a contrast between creating and controlling winds...and the spell seems to lean towards controlling, not creating.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That's a great point. The DM already concluded that the spell can turn raging wind into a calm breeze -- that's not why he was protecting the air elemental.
Control Winds makes no mention of objects. The air elemental is certainly affected by the spell, it's just a question of whether it's affected as air would be affected, or merely as a creature would be affected. This monster is both air and a creature, so there's your conundrum.
Let me be clear here -- what I'm saying is RAW. The rules as written demand for a DM to make a ruling. That's something the rules as written do from time to time.
My personal ruling would be that it would just act as a creature. Wind is caused by mere physics of atoms colliding, coriolis effects etc. An Air Elemental has a consciousness and will that binds it, therefore it isn't under the same constraints. I might consider it disrupted, acting like Banishment, but the lack of spell save concerns me. Then again, it is a higher spell slot and it is less powerful (no permanent banishments and it only works on an Air Elemental, so I don't know. That is a homebrew ruling though.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Some other effects (even spell effects) can be dispersed by a string wind. Using the calm option could keep an ally’s Cloudkill in place so it has its uses.
As for the “blasts of air” the elemental has whirlwind attack if it is in a creatures space (it’s large size so covers 4 squares so can be multiple creatures in the elemental’s space) that pushes up to 20’ so they do have that ability that is flavored as blasts of air with no home brew
A good question that this brings up is even though I don’t think control winds would affect an air elemental does it have any affect on wind based spells? Can you cast Gust of Wind in a calm controlled area?
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Eh my point isn't that forcing a calm wind doesn't have uses, cause ofc it does, see the example listed in the op, using it to stop an air elemental's whirlwind attack.
My point is that as written, doing the calm option doesn't actually do that. It just adds a calm wind on-top of whatever is currently going on. The spell clearly says that you create a calm gust of wind, and as I noted there's no language saying that the spell could be used to stop other spells like Warding Wind and not even any language saying that it'd even stop a naturally occurring strong wind.
It just sounds like if you tried to stop a tornado with this, you'd still be getting hit by a tornado it's just an additional faint breeze would caresses your flung about-to-be-dead body.
But that seems against the whole point of the spell, being that it controls the wind, not adds to the wind. Of course, names don't always match up with what it's intended to do, but this case is special in that it seems weird a 5th level spell would have a written option to do literally nothing.
Edit: Either way, this disconnect between controlling and adding onto the wind seems to be the root cause of confusion on how the spell interacts with other wind-based spells/creatures.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Go back to post #12. We're stuck in a time loop.
Eh I already addressed that in my other post.
Control doesn't have an in-game meaning, and common-sense tells me control just means I make it do stuff, in particular the spell defines what I can control the air to do, none of which includes forcing all air to be calm.
From how I read it, picking the calm gust option just allows you to "control the air to create a small light breeze" which to me is completely different than "remove & prevent all ongoing wind and wind-related spells", even if I think the spell should do the latter.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
The whirlwind attack sends targets in random directions if they fail their save, which is not what OP was describing, i.e "As the air elemental commences trying to gust me off the ship"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Control Wind has no effect on an Air Elemental except for the effect on creatures within the three options granted by Gusts, Downdraft & Updraft
an Air Elemental is not “air” that can be interacted with by the Control Winds spell, an Air Elemental is an Elemental Spirit in the form of air. It is a spirit from the elemental plane of air, incarnate and made manifest in a bodily form. The same goes for an invisible stalker and also water elementals and the control water spell
The elemental is a spirit, it is not “air”
I really don't understand why people are still arguing.
This is a game. It's make believe. If one DM at one table says the spell won't work, that's fine. If a different DM at a different table says it will, that's fine too. It's their table. It's not your table. It's not your group. It's not your decision. Why is everybody getting so upset about something that has literally zero effect on them?
Do people really just enjoy arguing that much?
It's a game. As long as they're having fun, they're doing it right. Stop trying to tell people that they're having fun wrong. Please. Just let people have their fun.
Jeez.
Anzio Faro. Protector Aasimar light cleric. Lvl 18.
Viktor Gavriil. White dragonborn grave cleric. Lvl 20.
Ikram Sahir ibn-Malik al-Sayyid Ra'ad. Brass dragonborn draconic sorcerer Lvl 9. Fire elemental devil.
Wrangler of cats.
The OP asked the questions. Everyone here is answering the questions and debating with one another about those answers. This is the whole point of this thread.
Jeez
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
To clarify, from my perspective the air elemental was trying to gust me off the ship. In reality, I don't actually know what the air elemental was using. All I know is that my DM said I felt the wind gusting around me and I needed to do a save roll, at which point I started arguing that the air around me was supposed to be controlled. At which point my DM informed me that it was an air elemental in my area. So could have been whirlwind attack, not sure.
As a side note, my DM and I have come up with a compromise. The caster of Control Winds and the Air Elemental will have to do an opposed magic check. If the Air Elemental wins the check it's magic allows it to control the winds that consist of itself, whereas if the caster wins the check it's magic overpowers the Air Elemental such that it's air is controlled as described in the spell. For instance, drifting to the edge of the 100 ft cube.