If I cast control winds and make them calm in a 100 ft cube, can an air elemental enter that cube and begin using wind to push people around? Or isn't the air controlled in that space and the air elemental is therefore also controlled?
Huh. That's a good idea. Let's see. According to DnDBeyond, "An air elemental is a funneling cloud of whirling air". And the spell Control Winds says, "You take control of the air in a 100-foot cube that you can see within range." So yeah. It sounds to me like using that spell to calm the winds in that area, then the AIR elemental (while it is in that area) would also be calmed. So the elemental would certainly be able to enter and/or leave the area at will, according to their movement speed. But while in that area I would say that the elemental could only move and defend itself, but not attack.
But that's just my 2 c.p. It's an unusual enough situation that it's probably something that each table will have to decide for themselves.
I don't think it's the rules have any clear answers.. Rather it's a great opportunity for a DM to reward interesting problem solving... If I DM'd that scenario I think Anzio's suggestion is pretty good... I might even let the effect work as a sort of temporary banish effect on air elementals in the area, give that Controls wings is a decently high level spell.
Control Winds doesn't have an option to calm the wind in its area of effect. And even if it did, air elementals are creatures and the spell doesn't give you the ability to control creatures or affect their actions in any way not listed in the spell's effects.
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"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Control Winds doesn't have an option to calm the wind in its area of effect. And even if it did, air elementals are creatures and the spell doesn't give you the ability to control creatures or affect their actions in any way not listed in the spell's effects.
Agreed. Air elemental is a creature and this spell doesn’t affect creatures.
You have air in your lungs. Control Winds cannot control that air. You have water in your body, Shape Water / Control Water cannot affect it.
Once something, object, material, whatever becomes part or body of a creature it is no longer targetable or controllable by spells because such things stop being what they were and are now "creature". It even extends somewhat to what is worn or carried as many spells prevent you targeting such things. Even spells like Teleport mention "you" and "creatures you choose" are teleported, it doesn't specify clothing and carried items are teleported with you - because it doesn't have to as such things are, essentially, "you" as far as targeting is concerned.
I'd certainly allow some effect in your example, possibly, circumstances depending but no the spell would not control the elemental.
D&D 5th is made with idiomatic speech, not 'well-actually-dictionary-by-the-letter-definitions' approach. If it had to be pedantic about listing all the examples, extents, intentions and limitations each book feature such would be several times bigger and a nightmare to read.
The very obvious intent is that elementals are "Creatures" not merely the substance they're made of. So, you treat it like any other creature.
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Control Winds doesn't have an option to calm the wind in its area of effect. And even if it did, air elementals are creatures and the spell doesn't give you the ability to control creatures or affect their actions in any way not listed in the spell's effects.
It sort of does
Gusts. A wind picks up within the cube, continually blowing in a horizontal direction you designate. You choose the intensity of the wind: calm, moderate, or strong. If the wind is moderate or strong, ranged weapon attacks that enter or leave the cube or pass through it have disadvantage on their attack rolls. If the wind is strong, any creature moving against the wind must spend 1 extra foot of movement for each foot moved.
Now, I don't know what the heck "calm gusts" are supposed to be, but it doesn't sound like the kind of thing that's going to give an air elemental much trouble
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Control Winds doesn't actually let you control existing winds, despite the name. What it does is create some wind that you control. It has no description for what would happen if you use it on an area where wind already exists. So the question of whether an air elemental is or isn't wind... Doesn't matter.
Reading Control Winds and the Air Elemental I would have Control Winds push the Air Elemental out of its area of effect unless the downdraft was chosen. If the downdraft was chosen I’d have it hold the air elemental on the ground and reduce its speed by half.
It’s a 5th level spell so I would let it effect an Air Elemental.
Gusts. A wind picks up within the cube, continually blowing in a horizontal direction you designate. You choose the intensity of the wind: calm, moderate, or strong. If the wind is moderate or strong, ranged weapon attacks that enter or leave the cube or pass through it have disadvantage on their attack rolls. If the wind is strong, any creature moving against the wind must spend 1 extra foot of movement for each foot moved.
Downdraft.You cause a sustained blast of strong wind to blow downward from the top of the cube. Ranged weapon attacks that pass through the cube or that are made against targets within it have disadvantage on their attack rolls. A creature must make a Strength saving throw if it flies into the cube for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there flying. On a failed save, the creature is knocked prone.
Updraft. You cause a sustained updraft within the cube, rising upward from the cube’s bottom side. Creatures that end a fall within the cube take only half damage from the fall. When a creature in the cube makes a vertical jump, the creature can jump up to 10 feet higher than normal.
These are the things that the spell does. It doesn't do anything more to an Air Elemental than it would do to any other creature within the area of effect.
Control Winds doesn't actually let you control existing winds, despite the name. What it does is create some wind that you control. It has no description for what would happen if you use it on an area where wind already exists. So the question of whether an air elemental is or isn't wind... Doesn't matter.
The first sentence says “You take control of the air in a 100-foot cube that you can see within range.” Not you create air or wind. The. You change the air to one of the three options.
@Tim, I see no reason you would treat an Air Elemental any different than any other creature in the spells cube.
Control Winds doesn't actually let you control existing winds, despite the name. What it does is create some wind that you control. It has no description for what would happen if you use it on an area where wind already exists. So the question of whether an air elemental is or isn't wind... Doesn't matter.
The first sentence says “You take control of the air in a 100-foot cube that you can see within range.” Not you create air or wind. The. You change the air to one of the three options.
Ah, good point. Then we must determine whether an air elemental is air. I feel like that's really the only thing we need to prove. If it is, you can make it behave in the ways described in the spell, and if it isn't, then you can't. The spell makes no distinction between "air" and "air that isn't a creature" or anything like that. So can we prove an air elemental is air?
The Monster Manual says, "An air elemental is a funneling cloud of whirling air," so I think it's pretty cut and dry. That was easy.
Only... That means an earth elemental is earth, right? "Its head and body consist of dirt and stone, occasionally set with chunks of metal, gems, and bright minerals." Sounds like earth. Can you affect it with earth spells? There are even cantrips that affect earth..! Well, no. Because all of those spells specify what they affect (earth OR stone, or loose earth, or a small quantity of earth, etc) and it's never everything that's contained in an earth elemental. And a fire elemental is too big to be affected by Control Flames, even though yes, a fire elemental is fire.
So I think the air elemental is sadly without any precedent against which to compare it. But that's okay. All that means, at most, is that elementals aren't meant to be controlled... By cantrips. (And that's if you assume these coincidences are intentional.) That's hardly enough to contradict the obvious facts that 1. air elementals are air, and 2. Control Winds gives you control over air, so 3. Control Winds gives you control over air elementals.
I've come around on this. I figured the answer was "obviously no," but now I see it's "obviously yes."
Though I don't know how that actually works in play because an air elemental is usually swirling. If it were to blow in one direction, I think it would have to move in that direction, right? Which would send it out of the area of the spell.
You do have to consider when the spell says "you take control of the air" it does not literally mean you can do whatever you want with that air
It defines "take control of" later on to be "pick one of these three very limited options, none of which would effect an air elemental any differently than a normal human"
Besides, it's pretty clear an air elemental isn't just "a funneling cloud of whirling air", because whirling clouds don't have alignment, much less be roaming the deserts talking to people in Auran. Thus, it's probably held together through some type of magic or very weird biology making trying to Control Winds it pretty awkward.
edit: correction, air elementals are almost completely immune to Control Winds, having both a fly speed and immunity to Prone. A strong Gusts works though.
Air elementals are described as a funneling cloud of whirling air, but it is still a creature. It’s sentient, has an alignment, has a face, of sorts. Can you breathe in an air elemental? I don’t think so. The spell takes control of the air in the cube but it’s effect on creatures (which an Air Elemental is) is described in the spells effects. Humans are mostly water, are they then affected by spells that affect water? No, unless it also affects creatures.
Control Winds has no more affect on Air Elementals than any other creature, less so since they are immune to the prone condition.
Air elementals are described as a funneling cloud of whirling air, but it is still a creature. It’s sentient, has an alignment, has a face, of sorts. Can you breathe in an air elemental? I don’t think so. The spell takes control of the air in the cube but it’s effect on creatures (which an Air Elemental is) is described in the spells effects. Humans are mostly water, are they then affected by spells that affect water? No, unless it also affects creatures.
Control Winds has no more affect on Air Elementals than any other creature, less so since they are immune to the prone condition.
Humans are mostly water, sure. Air elementals are not mostly air. They are air. They aren't anything else but air.
Besides, it's pretty clear an air elemental isn't just "a funneling cloud of whirling air", because whirling clouds don't have alignment, much less be roaming the deserts talking to people in Auran. Thus, it's probably held together through some type of magic or very weird biology making trying to Control Winds it pretty awkward.
It definitely is just air that's angry. You may want to check the Monster Manual for further details on elementals. Why would it being held together by magic or weird biology have any bearing on whether it's air? It's not "air and magic." It's not even magical air.
To reiterate, these don't fail because elementals are somehow different from the element that they are. CoDW requires an open container, and CF requires a 5ft flame. These spells in no way reinforce your position.
Air elementals are described as a funneling cloud of whirling air, but it is still a creature. It’s sentient, has an alignment, has a face, of sorts. Can you breathe in an air elemental? I don’t think so. The spell takes control of the air in the cube but it’s effect on creatures (which an Air Elemental is) is described in the spells effects. Humans are mostly water, are they then affected by spells that affect water? No, unless it also affects creatures.
Control Winds has no more affect on Air Elementals than any other creature, less so since they are immune to the prone condition.
Humans are mostly water, sure. Air elementals are not mostly air. They are air. They aren't anything else but air.
Besides, it's pretty clear an air elemental isn't just "a funneling cloud of whirling air", because whirling clouds don't have alignment, much less be roaming the deserts talking to people in Auran. Thus, it's probably held together through some type of magic or very weird biology making trying to Control Winds it pretty awkward.
It definitely is just air that's angry. You may want to check the Monster Manual for further details on elementals. Why would it being held together by magic or weird biology have any bearing on whether it's air? It's not "air and magic." It's not even magical air.
To reiterate, these don't fail because elementals are somehow different from the element that they are. CoDW requires an open container, and CF requires a 5ft flame. These spells in no way reinforce your position.
I genuinely have no clue what you're even arguing for at this point.
control winds does what it says it does. It doesn't "control" air elementals any more than it controls other creatures, which is to say, it can do one of the following:
Gusts. A wind picks up within the cube, continually blowing in a horizontal direction you designate. You choose the intensity of the wind: calm, moderate, or strong. If the wind is moderate or strong, ranged weapon attacks that enter or leave the cube or pass through it have disadvantage on their attack rolls. If the wind is strong, any creature moving against the wind must spend 1 extra foot of movement for each foot moved.
Downdraft.You cause a sustained blast of strong wind to blow downward from the top of the cube. Ranged weapon attacks that pass through the cube or that are made against targets within it have disadvantage on their attack rolls. A creature must make a Strength saving throw if it flies into the cube for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there flying. On a failed save, the creature is knocked prone.
Updraft. You cause a sustained updraft within the cube, rising upward from the cube’s bottom side. Creatures that end a fall within the cube take only half damage from the fall. When a creature in the cube makes a vertical jump, the creature can jump up to 10 feet higher than normal.
Since air elementals have a flying speed, the Downdraft option might pin them to the ground briefly, but Updraft would do nothing and Gusts would only slow them down a bit. None of those options would have any effect on an air elemental's attacks.
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Air elementals are described as a funneling cloud of whirling air, but it is still a creature. It’s sentient, has an alignment, has a face, of sorts. Can you breathe in an air elemental? I don’t think so. The spell takes control of the air in the cube but it’s effect on creatures (which an Air Elemental is) is described in the spells effects. Humans are mostly water, are they then affected by spells that affect water? No, unless it also affects creatures.
Control Winds has no more affect on Air Elementals than any other creature, less so since they are immune to the prone condition.
Humans are mostly water, sure. Air elementals are not mostly air. They are air. They aren't anything else but air.
Besides, it's pretty clear an air elemental isn't just "a funneling cloud of whirling air", because whirling clouds don't have alignment, much less be roaming the deserts talking to people in Auran. Thus, it's probably held together through some type of magic or very weird biology making trying to Control Winds it pretty awkward.
It definitely is just air that's angry. You may want to check the Monster Manual for further details on elementals. Why would it being held together by magic or weird biology have any bearing on whether it's air? It's not "air and magic." It's not even magical air.
To reiterate, these don't fail because elementals are somehow different from the element that they are. CoDW requires an open container, and CF requires a 5ft flame. These spells in no way reinforce your position.
I genuinely have no clue what you're even arguing for at this point.
control winds does what it says it does. It doesn't "control" air elementals any more than it controls other creatures, which is to say, it can do one of the following:
Gusts. A wind picks up within the cube, continually blowing in a horizontal direction you designate. You choose the intensity of the wind: calm, moderate, or strong. If the wind is moderate or strong, ranged weapon attacks that enter or leave the cube or pass through it have disadvantage on their attack rolls. If the wind is strong, any creature moving against the wind must spend 1 extra foot of movement for each foot moved.
Downdraft.You cause a sustained blast of strong wind to blow downward from the top of the cube. Ranged weapon attacks that pass through the cube or that are made against targets within it have disadvantage on their attack rolls. A creature must make a Strength saving throw if it flies into the cube for the first time on a turn or starts its turn there flying. On a failed save, the creature is knocked prone.
Updraft. You cause a sustained updraft within the cube, rising upward from the cube’s bottom side. Creatures that end a fall within the cube take only half damage from the fall. When a creature in the cube makes a vertical jump, the creature can jump up to 10 feet higher than normal.
Since air elementals have a flying speed, the Downdraft option might pin them to the ground briefly, but Updraft would do nothing and Gusts would only slow them down a bit. None of those options would have any effect on an air elemental's attacks.
The elemental is air. That means the elemental does what the air does. It's up to the DM to figure out what that means. If it was me, I'd likely say, "the elemental is effectively erased while within the area. It loses its form, stops being a creature. When the spell ends, it comes back together and it's really mad."
I mean, why not? We're at the table to have fun, not to force our players to engage with content in exactly the way we prescribe. If we want them to engage with the world, to get immersed and play in character, then the worst thing we can probably do is say "yeah I see why you think this makes sense according to the fiction, but because of the way game terminology is formatted, or because of balance, or because I'm not prepared to have this encounter resolved so quickly, I'm gonna say no."
The elemental is air. That means the elemental does what the air does.
I assume then that you'd allow control water to insta-kill a water elemental, since the spell can just cut it in half with the Part Water option
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If I cast control winds and make them calm in a 100 ft cube, can an air elemental enter that cube and begin using wind to push people around? Or isn't the air controlled in that space and the air elemental is therefore also controlled?
Huh. That's a good idea. Let's see. According to DnDBeyond, "An air elemental is a funneling cloud of whirling air". And the spell Control Winds says, "You take control of the air in a 100-foot cube that you can see within range." So yeah. It sounds to me like using that spell to calm the winds in that area, then the AIR elemental (while it is in that area) would also be calmed. So the elemental would certainly be able to enter and/or leave the area at will, according to their movement speed. But while in that area I would say that the elemental could only move and defend itself, but not attack.
But that's just my 2 c.p. It's an unusual enough situation that it's probably something that each table will have to decide for themselves.
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I don't think it's the rules have any clear answers.. Rather it's a great opportunity for a DM to reward interesting problem solving... If I DM'd that scenario I think Anzio's suggestion is pretty good... I might even let the effect work as a sort of temporary banish effect on air elementals in the area, give that Controls wings is a decently high level spell.
Control Winds doesn't have an option to calm the wind in its area of effect. And even if it did, air elementals are creatures and the spell doesn't give you the ability to control creatures or affect their actions in any way not listed in the spell's effects.
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"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agreed. Air elemental is a creature and this spell doesn’t affect creatures.
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You have air in your lungs. Control Winds cannot control that air. You have water in your body, Shape Water / Control Water cannot affect it.
Once something, object, material, whatever becomes part or body of a creature it is no longer targetable or controllable by spells because such things stop being what they were and are now "creature". It even extends somewhat to what is worn or carried as many spells prevent you targeting such things. Even spells like Teleport mention "you" and "creatures you choose" are teleported, it doesn't specify clothing and carried items are teleported with you - because it doesn't have to as such things are, essentially, "you" as far as targeting is concerned.
I'd certainly allow some effect in your example, possibly, circumstances depending but no the spell would not control the elemental.
D&D 5th is made with idiomatic speech, not 'well-actually-dictionary-by-the-letter-definitions' approach. If it had to be pedantic about listing all the examples, extents, intentions and limitations each book feature such would be several times bigger and a nightmare to read.
The very obvious intent is that elementals are "Creatures" not merely the substance they're made of. So, you treat it like any other creature.
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It sort of does
Now, I don't know what the heck "calm gusts" are supposed to be, but it doesn't sound like the kind of thing that's going to give an air elemental much trouble
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I think an air elemental would basically counteract the spell and cancel them both out.
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Control Winds doesn't actually let you control existing winds, despite the name. What it does is create some wind that you control. It has no description for what would happen if you use it on an area where wind already exists. So the question of whether an air elemental is or isn't wind... Doesn't matter.
Reading Control Winds and the Air Elemental I would have Control Winds push the Air Elemental out of its area of effect unless the downdraft was chosen. If the downdraft was chosen I’d have it hold the air elemental on the ground and reduce its speed by half.
It’s a 5th level spell so I would let it effect an Air Elemental.
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These are the things that the spell does. It doesn't do anything more to an Air Elemental than it would do to any other creature within the area of effect.
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The first sentence says “You take control of the air in a 100-foot cube that you can see within range.” Not you create air or wind. The. You change the air to one of the three options.
@Tim, I see no reason you would treat an Air Elemental any different than any other creature in the spells cube.
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Ah, good point. Then we must determine whether an air elemental is air. I feel like that's really the only thing we need to prove. If it is, you can make it behave in the ways described in the spell, and if it isn't, then you can't. The spell makes no distinction between "air" and "air that isn't a creature" or anything like that. So can we prove an air elemental is air?
The Monster Manual says, "An air elemental is a funneling cloud of whirling air," so I think it's pretty cut and dry. That was easy.
Only... That means an earth elemental is earth, right? "Its head and body consist of dirt and stone, occasionally set with chunks of metal, gems, and bright minerals." Sounds like earth. Can you affect it with earth spells? There are even cantrips that affect earth..! Well, no. Because all of those spells specify what they affect (earth OR stone, or loose earth, or a small quantity of earth, etc) and it's never everything that's contained in an earth elemental. And a fire elemental is too big to be affected by Control Flames, even though yes, a fire elemental is fire.
So I think the air elemental is sadly without any precedent against which to compare it. But that's okay. All that means, at most, is that elementals aren't meant to be controlled... By cantrips. (And that's if you assume these coincidences are intentional.) That's hardly enough to contradict the obvious facts that 1. air elementals are air, and 2. Control Winds gives you control over air, so 3. Control Winds gives you control over air elementals.
I've come around on this. I figured the answer was "obviously no," but now I see it's "obviously yes."
Though I don't know how that actually works in play because an air elemental is usually swirling. If it were to blow in one direction, I think it would have to move in that direction, right? Which would send it out of the area of the spell.
You do have to consider when the spell says "you take control of the air" it does not literally mean you can do whatever you want with that air
It defines "take control of" later on to be "pick one of these three very limited options, none of which would effect an air elemental any differently than a normal human"
Besides, it's pretty clear an air elemental isn't just "a funneling cloud of whirling air", because whirling clouds don't have alignment, much less be roaming the deserts talking to people in Auran. Thus, it's probably held together through some type of magic or very weird biology making trying to Control Winds it pretty awkward.
As for past precedence, the Create or Destroy Water + Water Elemental has already been brought up, and there's also Fire Elemental + Control Flames
edit: correction, air elementals are almost completely immune to Control Winds, having both a fly speed and immunity to Prone. A strong Gusts works though.
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Air elementals are described as a funneling cloud of whirling air, but it is still a creature. It’s sentient, has an alignment, has a face, of sorts. Can you breathe in an air elemental? I don’t think so. The spell takes control of the air in the cube but it’s effect on creatures (which an Air Elemental is) is described in the spells effects. Humans are mostly water, are they then affected by spells that affect water? No, unless it also affects creatures.
Control Winds has no more affect on Air Elementals than any other creature, less so since they are immune to the prone condition.
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Humans are mostly water, sure. Air elementals are not mostly air. They are air. They aren't anything else but air.
It definitely is just air that's angry. You may want to check the Monster Manual for further details on elementals. Why would it being held together by magic or weird biology have any bearing on whether it's air? It's not "air and magic." It's not even magical air.
To reiterate, these don't fail because elementals are somehow different from the element that they are. CoDW requires an open container, and CF requires a 5ft flame. These spells in no way reinforce your position.
I genuinely have no clue what you're even arguing for at this point.
control winds does what it says it does. It doesn't "control" air elementals any more than it controls other creatures, which is to say, it can do one of the following:
Since air elementals have a flying speed, the Downdraft option might pin them to the ground briefly, but Updraft would do nothing and Gusts would only slow them down a bit. None of those options would have any effect on an air elemental's attacks.
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The elemental is air. That means the elemental does what the air does. It's up to the DM to figure out what that means. If it was me, I'd likely say, "the elemental is effectively erased while within the area. It loses its form, stops being a creature. When the spell ends, it comes back together and it's really mad."
I mean, why not? We're at the table to have fun, not to force our players to engage with content in exactly the way we prescribe. If we want them to engage with the world, to get immersed and play in character, then the worst thing we can probably do is say "yeah I see why you think this makes sense according to the fiction, but because of the way game terminology is formatted, or because of balance, or because I'm not prepared to have this encounter resolved so quickly, I'm gonna say no."
I assume then that you'd allow control water to insta-kill a water elemental, since the spell can just cut it in half with the Part Water option
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Why on earth would causing a water elemental to split in half kill it?
Edit: And this would only potentially affect elementals in the direct center of the effect. All other elementals would simply move.