The real problem is that they are practically the same cost for a physical copy, and a digital copy. Which makes 0 sense. Digital copies of books are always 1/2 the cost of their physical counterpart, if not less.
I can get the alt cover for basically the same as what I paid for the DDB version, once you account for taxes etc.
DDB is quite expensive for a digital version. Other game systems give the digital for about half the cost.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I remember when they told us that ALL new copies would come with a download code and then they turned around and called them "bundles". This is just too expensive. $80 for a book. Then you got the new core bundle at 270? I may be a paid dm but it doesn't mean i can afford this. So like what about those who are scrounging up money with their friends. They don't make anything off dming. They're probably going to go through illegal routes to gain access. Cause this is what happens sadly. When stuff is too expensive people find ways around it which just hurts the community more because they'll just raise the rates to make up for piracy loss.
Nobody is talking about amazon. That's not WoTC direct. That is 3rd parties cutting deals to make money by going cheaper than WoTC. If you look on here its $75(+7 shipping) for both. $50 + shipping for hardcover and $30 for digital if you split it. That's insane! That's almost $90 for one book!
I remember when they told us that ALL new copies would come with a download code and then they turned around and called them "bundles". This is just too expensive. $80 for a book. Then you got the new core bundle at 270? I may be a paid dm but it doesn't mean i can afford this. So like what about those who are scrounging up money with their friends. They don't make anything off dming. They're probably going to go through illegal routes to gain access. Cause this is what happens sadly. When stuff is too expensive people find ways around it which just hurts the community more because they'll just raise the rates to make up for piracy loss.
Unless I missed what would have been a HUGE bit of news I don't think they've ever said every book would come with a download code. Not even once.
Yeah, because they went back on their word and erased it from the internet. It was there at one point on the official website. They were promoting that they were going to try and work something out where "any NEW purchase" would get a digital code voucher. Then a few days later, poof. All of it gone. No history of them ever saying it but a few people i know also saw it before it vanished. None of us thought to screenshot cause who knew wizards were that greedy?
Sorry but nothing is ever lost on the internet, in fact the more you try to stamp something out the more it will pop up like mushrooms all across Reddit, Twitter, YouTube and these forums.
It was there. It existed. Call me crazy but i read it right on D&D beyond and it vanished after only a few days. And there's no way someone sat down and re-created beyond as a fake site to trick people to turn against WoTC.
It was there. It existed. Call me crazy but i read it right on D&D beyond and it vanished after only a few days. And there's no way someone sat down and re-created beyond as a fake site to trick people to turn against WoTC.
It existed, I saw it. It was part of the D&D NEXT plan around 2012, though it was not "offered" as an advertisement, it was part of a planned promotion that was being discussed but scrapped before the 5e launch.
It was not on DnD Beyond though, it actually pre-dates the release of 5e and DnD Beyond.
Nobody is talking about amazon. That's not WoTC direct. That is 3rd parties cutting deals to make money by going cheaper than WoTC. If you look on here its $75(+7 shipping) for both. $50 + shipping for hardcover and $30 for digital if you split it. That's insane! That's almost $90 for one book!
I'd then argue you need to be a smarter shopper. Why would you pay that much to get the print copy? Just to make sure WotC got more of your hard-earned cash?
I got my alt cover PHB from my FLGS (support local!) and the digital here so that I could use the tools on Beyond, and certainly didn't pay $90 total.
I can get the alt cover for basically the same as what I paid for the DDB version, once you account for taxes etc.
DDB is quite expensive for a digital version. Other game systems give the digital for about half the cost.
When you say "digital version" what do you mean though? Sure, other publishers may throw in a pdf when you buy the print book. That's not what you are getting for your $30 here.
It was there. It existed. Call me crazy but i read it right on D&D beyond and it vanished after only a few days. And there's no way someone sat down and re-created beyond as a fake site to trick people to turn against WoTC.
It existed, I saw it. It was part of the D&D NEXT plan around 2012, though it was not "offered" as an advertisement, it was part of a planned promotion that was being discussed but scrapped before the 5e launch.
It was not on DnD Beyond though, it actually pre-dates the release of 5e and DnD Beyond.
So over a decade ago, most likely only intended as being a pdf with the book and absolutely not anything to do with D&D Beyond or the current physical/digital bundles which as you say are on a site that didn’t exist at the time. Thanks, thought I’d missed something
This is not actually true; if no-one saves a copy and you delete the original, it's gone once it expires from people's caches. Mostly this happens to things no-one cares about, but it does happen.
I can get the alt cover for basically the same as what I paid for the DDB version, once you account for taxes etc.
DDB is quite expensive for a digital version. Other game systems give the digital for about half the cost.
When you say "digital version" what do you mean though? Sure, other publishers may throw in a pdf when you buy the print book. That's not what you are getting for your $30 here.
You get a PDF, and a character creator that actually covers all of the mechanics. The advantages of DDB:
* You have a single interface.
* It does track your character status etc - on the other hand, the other games don't need that.
* It automatically updates.
* If you have characters on multiple devices, they're synched.
* The links are nice.
The advantages of the other games:
* You own the books. If their company crashes tomorrow, it just means no further development. DDB will take our books with it when it goes.
* No problems with maintenance breaking your game.
* You can actually search them.
* If you don't like an update to your books, it's not an issue.
* It's half the price. Physical + Digital bundles are also substantially cheaper.
* Being offline is zero issue, DDB can be problematic.
* There aren't the same bugs that can cause real problems on DDB.
* You can easily remedy issues.
Most of the benefit of DDB is merely mandated by the game itself. There are some pros...but it's not a twice the value compared with what my other game systems offer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
[Redacted] I refuse to buy anything from these hungry little goblins unless i have to. I go to Amazon to support USED bookstores and purchase their second hand copies of the books i want. I only buy digital for my parties so they can have all the unlocked stuff they need.
Trust me, I would never waste my money on WoTC if i can spend it elsewhere. Same with MTG. I refuse to buy direct, off TCG, or any of that. I go to the card shops and support the owners instead.
But we're talking about how badly WoTC rips everyone off, not "where to get the better deal" you know? The fact that they want $75 a book is insane. They should give us a free digital when we buy physical OR its $30 if you only want digital. But they're so damn greedy they even make you pay for the Roll20 Modules too. Because they want to suck us dry for every single dollar we have. The problem? Wizards sucks and they're money hungry.
SEE I knew it was real! Slightly off on where i got the info but i knew it.
And of course the scrapped it, because they own beyond and saw a way to screw us out of $75 a book. Why would they give those digitals out for free?
Its not quite that dramatic, but they are a corporation in the business of making money so they are always going to try to pick the most profitable route.
I think a big part of the reason why buy a book, get a digital code didn't really take off is because the shift to digital gaming isn't just some corporate idea, it is more of a response to what is actually happening in the market. There is no question that there are more digital online games of D&D and other RPG's being played today than there are live table games, so any company that is just releasing books without digital support is missing out on the bulk of the market share.
People want digital products, but if you release a PDF of a book like the Players Handbook it will be free on the internet the next day and there isn't a damn thing a company like WotC can do about it and while people will proclaim to be honest, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of people that might buy a digital PDF will not do so if they can download it for free.
DnD Beyond is a huge counter to digital PDF's, it ensures the integrity of the product and while they COULD have included a digital code with your book for a DnD Beyond digital release, again, they are a corporation, why would they. They know that most people that play D&D online will buy the DnD Beyond version of the game and many of those will also buy the printed book. I think if you did a poll to see how many people bought both, it would probably show that a considerable amount of people bought both.
So yeah.. I don't think book codes for digital products is never going to be normalized for D&D, that's just giving up free money.
[Redacted] But one of those costs you've quoted is for Roll20, a totally different company. Why would Roll20 give you access just because you paid someone else? Do you think you can play computer games on the PlayStation because you bought them on Steam? Of course not. And just using the link you shared you can get the digital and physical for $70 so $20 less than the prices you're quoting which you admit so you're padding your own costs to try and prove a point.
So that's not $120, it's almost half that, and the fact you also want to use another VTT is entirely your choice when there's plenty that don't require you to buy the book again
The real problem is that they are practically the same cost for a physical copy, and a digital copy. Which makes 0 sense. Digital copies of books are always 1/2 the cost of their physical counterpart, if not less.
The 2024 PHB is showing as $45 on Amazon right now, the DMG pre-ordered at $50. Digital here is $30, if you don't have any discounts.
This claim has been disproven over and over.
I can get the alt cover for basically the same as what I paid for the DDB version, once you account for taxes etc.
DDB is quite expensive for a digital version. Other game systems give the digital for about half the cost.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I remember when they told us that ALL new copies would come with a download code and then they turned around and called them "bundles". This is just too expensive. $80 for a book. Then you got the new core bundle at 270? I may be a paid dm but it doesn't mean i can afford this. So like what about those who are scrounging up money with their friends. They don't make anything off dming. They're probably going to go through illegal routes to gain access. Cause this is what happens sadly. When stuff is too expensive people find ways around it which just hurts the community more because they'll just raise the rates to make up for piracy loss.
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
No you save $20.
Most books are $30 digital and almost $50 for hardcover.
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[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
Nobody is talking about amazon. That's not WoTC direct.
That is 3rd parties cutting deals to make money by going cheaper than WoTC. If you look on here its $75(+7 shipping) for both. $50 + shipping for hardcover and $30 for digital if you split it. That's insane! That's almost $90 for one book!
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
Unless I missed what would have been a HUGE bit of news I don't think they've ever said every book would come with a download code. Not even once.
Yeah, because they went back on their word and erased it from the internet. It was there at one point on the official website. They were promoting that they were going to try and work something out where "any NEW purchase" would get a digital code voucher. Then a few days later, poof. All of it gone. No history of them ever saying it but a few people i know also saw it before it vanished. None of us thought to screenshot cause who knew wizards were that greedy?
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
Sorry but nothing is ever lost on the internet, in fact the more you try to stamp something out the more it will pop up like mushrooms all across Reddit, Twitter, YouTube and these forums.
It was there. It existed. Call me crazy but i read it right on D&D beyond and it vanished after only a few days.
And there's no way someone sat down and re-created beyond as a fake site to trick people to turn against WoTC.
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
It existed, I saw it. It was part of the D&D NEXT plan around 2012, though it was not "offered" as an advertisement, it was part of a planned promotion that was being discussed but scrapped before the 5e launch.
It was not on DnD Beyond though, it actually pre-dates the release of 5e and DnD Beyond.
I'd then argue you need to be a smarter shopper. Why would you pay that much to get the print copy? Just to make sure WotC got more of your hard-earned cash?
I got my alt cover PHB from my FLGS (support local!) and the digital here so that I could use the tools on Beyond, and certainly didn't pay $90 total.
When you say "digital version" what do you mean though? Sure, other publishers may throw in a pdf when you buy the print book. That's not what you are getting for your $30 here.
So over a decade ago, most likely only intended as being a pdf with the book and absolutely not anything to do with D&D Beyond or the current physical/digital bundles which as you say are on a site that didn’t exist at the time. Thanks, thought I’d missed something
This is not actually true; if no-one saves a copy and you delete the original, it's gone once it expires from people's caches. Mostly this happens to things no-one cares about, but it does happen.
You get a PDF, and a character creator that actually covers all of the mechanics. The advantages of DDB:
* You have a single interface.
* It does track your character status etc - on the other hand, the other games don't need that.
* It automatically updates.
* If you have characters on multiple devices, they're synched.
* The links are nice.
The advantages of the other games:
* You own the books. If their company crashes tomorrow, it just means no further development. DDB will take our books with it when it goes.
* No problems with maintenance breaking your game.
* You can actually search them.
* If you don't like an update to your books, it's not an issue.
* It's half the price. Physical + Digital bundles are also substantially cheaper.
* Being offline is zero issue, DDB can be problematic.
* There aren't the same bugs that can cause real problems on DDB.
* You can easily remedy issues.
Most of the benefit of DDB is merely mandated by the game itself. There are some pros...but it's not a twice the value compared with what my other game systems offer.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
[Redacted]
I refuse to buy anything from these hungry little goblins unless i have to. I go to Amazon to support USED bookstores and purchase their second hand copies of the books i want. I only buy digital for my parties so they can have all the unlocked stuff they need.
Trust me, I would never waste my money on WoTC if i can spend it elsewhere. Same with MTG. I refuse to buy direct, off TCG, or any of that. I go to the card shops and support the owners instead.
But we're talking about how badly WoTC rips everyone off, not "where to get the better deal" you know? The fact that they want $75 a book is insane. They should give us a free digital when we buy physical OR its $30 if you only want digital. But they're so damn greedy they even make you pay for the Roll20 Modules too. Because they want to suck us dry for every single dollar we have. The problem? Wizards sucks and they're money hungry.
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
SEE I knew it was real! Slightly off on where i got the info but i knew it.
And of course the scrapped it, because they own beyond and saw a way to screw us out of $75 a book. Why would they give those digitals out for free?
COME CHECK OUT MY UPCOMING CAMPAIGNS!
[ CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO ]
Its not quite that dramatic, but they are a corporation in the business of making money so they are always going to try to pick the most profitable route.
I think a big part of the reason why buy a book, get a digital code didn't really take off is because the shift to digital gaming isn't just some corporate idea, it is more of a response to what is actually happening in the market. There is no question that there are more digital online games of D&D and other RPG's being played today than there are live table games, so any company that is just releasing books without digital support is missing out on the bulk of the market share.
People want digital products, but if you release a PDF of a book like the Players Handbook it will be free on the internet the next day and there isn't a damn thing a company like WotC can do about it and while people will proclaim to be honest, the reality is that the overwhelming majority of people that might buy a digital PDF will not do so if they can download it for free.
DnD Beyond is a huge counter to digital PDF's, it ensures the integrity of the product and while they COULD have included a digital code with your book for a DnD Beyond digital release, again, they are a corporation, why would they. They know that most people that play D&D online will buy the DnD Beyond version of the game and many of those will also buy the printed book. I think if you did a poll to see how many people bought both, it would probably show that a considerable amount of people bought both.
So yeah.. I don't think book codes for digital products is never going to be normalized for D&D, that's just giving up free money.
But one of those costs you've quoted is for Roll20, a totally different company. Why would Roll20 give you access just because you paid someone else? Do you think you can play computer games on the PlayStation because you bought them on Steam? Of course not. And just using the link you shared you can get the digital and physical for $70 so $20 less than the prices you're quoting which you admit so you're padding your own costs to try and prove a point.
So that's not $120, it's almost half that, and the fact you also want to use another VTT is entirely your choice when there's plenty that don't require you to buy the book again