Just looking to include a doppelganger in an upcoming adventure, and discovered this: "Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed." so I'm guessing this means that they can't polymorph in the middle of a chase, for example, unless they can change into different clothes as well. has anyone managed to get around this?
They can polymorph in the middle of a chase, it's just not very effective if their wearing distinguishing clothes.
If you have them wearing generic equipment that anyone would wear, such as a cloak, it shouldn't look too suspicous to the party members.
PS. Usually dopplegangers would chase in their fake form, not their real form.
Edit: The polymorph means their clothes and equipment dont change or absorb into their skin as they shapechange, they still have them on their attire on.
Just looking to include a doppelganger in an upcoming adventure, and discovered this: "Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed." so I'm guessing this means that they can't polymorph in the middle of a chase, for example, unless they can change into different clothes as well. has anyone managed to get around this?
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Why can't a doppleganger be naked, and simulate clothes?
Because of the wording in the statblock:
Shapechanger. The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium humanoid it has seen, or back into its true form. Its statistics, other than its size, are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.
Are we talking about the spell Polymorph? Because that would have no effect on a Doppelganger.
As for the Doppelganger's own shapechanger ability, any clothing with illusory properties could be reasonably used. A Cloak of Many Fashions should at least provide enough of a change to vanish into a crowd, as long as the character doesn't wear extremely garish and distinct clothes under it.
Just looking to include a doppelganger in an upcoming adventure, and discovered this: "Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed." so I'm guessing this means that they can't polymorph in the middle of a chase, for example, unless they can change into different clothes as well. has anyone managed to get around this?
One of my Doppelgänger NPCs had a magic cloak that could change colour so if this was going to be a risk they would duck out of view, change form and change the cloak, it reached down to the floor so they could easily cover up shoes etc.
Remember, depending on the world, as a Doppelgänger you may be rare and unknown so the DM should be able to tell you if people will assume that is what you are. It took a long while for my party to realise what they thought was a gang was actually 1 individual.
Why can't a doppleganger be naked, and simulate clothes? As long as they only use small equipment like daggers, they can conceal the gear, and change appearance at will.
Because a Dopplegnager is not like Odo from DS9, they do not change there skin to look like clothing.
Why can't a doppleganger be naked, and simulate clothes?
Because of the wording in the statblock:
Shapechanger. The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium humanoid it has seen, or back into its true form. Its statistics, other than its size, are the same in each form. Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed. It reverts to its true form if it dies.
That doesn't preclude it making it appear as if it is wearing simple clothes. What it does is stop them from changing any actual clothes they are wearing.
Every changeling/doppelganger I have seen in media uses their shapeshifting to make their current form appear to be wearing clothes.
Could be that they're simply only able to replicate living matter with their shape shifting. They can grow scales or change their skin etc, but they can't make their body look and feel like cloth or metal etc. Really this is consistent with other transformation abilities in the game. Changelings and the alter self spell do not alter your clothing or equipment for example.
In terms of game design, it adds a layer of strategy. It's still a powerful tool but one with limitations to work around. If a player has an ability like this they would need to use strategy and not use the shape shifting as a crutch. For an enemy, this limitation could be used to give the party a means to figure out what's going on if pursuing a doplegangar.
The only actual reason they don't, though, is simply that they are defined as not being able to. If one can change form to the degree of fine detail, perfectly imitating another individual down to hairstyle, then it is only some artificial limit preventing them from also being able to simulate clothes.
It does seem an evolutionary/design oversight (or just another case of the Dev's erring on the very conservative side).
It's a bit weird historically.
In AD&D: "Note: A doppleganger actually forms itself into the likeness of the clothing and equipment of the imitated creature as well as the physical features thereof"
In 3.5e, the 'change shape' trait does not discuss clothes, but since it specifies 'humanoid form' presumably does not.
In 4e, the basic doppelganger could not replicate clothing, but higher level (monster) doppelgangers had illusion abilities that let them replicate clothing and equipment.
The only actual reason they don't, though, is simply that they are defined as not being able to. If one can change form to the degree of fine detail, perfectly imitating another individual down to hairstyle, then it is only some artificial limit preventing them from also being able to simulate clothes.
It does seem an evolutionary/design oversight (or just another case of the Dev's erring on the very conservative side).
It's a bit weird historically.
In AD&D: "Note: A doppleganger actually forms itself into the likeness of the clothing and equipment of the imitated creature as well as the physical features thereof"
In 3.5e, the 'change shape' trait does not discuss clothes, but since it specifies 'humanoid form' presumably does not.
In 4e, the basic doppelganger could not replicate clothing, but higher level (monster) doppelgangers had illusion abilities that let them replicate clothing and equipment.
A clothed humanoid form is still a humanoid form.
In 4e, it sounds like they realized the clothing thing to be an oversight so came up with the 'higher level' version, rather than admit their oversight.
Taking a 'humanoid form' IMO doesn't include clothes unless it specifically says that it does. Clothes are not naturally part of a humanoid. Though maybe older editions interpreted rules differently, going by the 5E nature of 'abilities only do what they say they do' I'd be inclined to say no here.
In general I provide them with equipment that can change form, style, color, etc or it is something they seek if they are a "young" NPC/PC. Why? it makes things they do or generally want to do so much easier.
In 4e, it sounds like they realized the clothing thing to be an oversight so came up with the 'higher level' version, rather than admit their oversight.
Nah, it's because they expected the higher level versions to function differently. A level 3 doppelganger sneak is just the spy you have to find. A level 11 doppelganger infiltrator is the monster where you expect it to use its abilities in combat.
Why can't a doppleganger be naked, and simulate clothes? As long as they only use small equipment like daggers, they can conceal the gear, and change appearance at will.
Because a Dopplegnager is not like Odo from DS9, they do not change there skin to look like clothing.
Again, the alternative is that they strip naked, transform, then run around naked until they find new clothes that fit. That makes for a suddenly unexpectedly adult table.
The equipment isn't transformed as the dopplegangers body is. Meaning that the clothing stays the same, Wizards probably clairified the difference because some monsters can choose to have clothes or other equipment sucked into your body instead.
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Pardon, but what in blazes does illusory clothing have to do with combat? Originally, they were scary because they could easily literally 'replace' people. Or sow confusion by there suddenly being two of a person there. If they cannot replicate clothing then they do what? Run in naked and steal the clothing of the person they plan to imitate? Conveniently have similar enough clothing that.. has to fit them and that they have to change into?
You seem to have answered your own question. If you want to do things like 'sow confusion by there being two of a person there', you need the ability to replicate equipment. And the higher level version actually has specific powers intended to help it sow confusion.
A doppelgänger is going to know the limitations of its own transformation and adjust accordingly. It is not going to wear a flamboyant and easily recognisable set of armour - if is going to wear clothing that blends into its surroundings.
Imagine you are chasing a man down the street wearing something relatively generic - a plain white button down and khakis, or something similarly generic for the environment you are in. Without you noticing, they transform into someone who looks completely different - different hair, different skin colour, different gait, etc. You pass them on the street and your mind likely will not even register they’re the same clothing due to the major difference in every other feature.
In game, you can add to this effect by throwing in other NPCs wearing similar clothing. Could lead to some interesting moments when the party starts tracking someone just trying to get home from work, having confused that person for their target.
Why can't a doppleganger be naked, and simulate clothes? As long as they only use small equipment like daggers, they can conceal the gear, and change appearance at will.
Just looking to include a doppelganger in an upcoming adventure, and discovered this: "Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed." so I'm guessing this means that they can't polymorph in the middle of a chase, for example, unless they can change into different clothes as well. has anyone managed to get around this?
The problem with this solution is that then the PC's get sets of such clothing. And where do the doppelgangers get all this gear? Local Maul-mart?
Yes. This is D&D. Monsters have loot when you defeat them
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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Just looking to include a doppelganger in an upcoming adventure, and discovered this: "Any equipment it is wearing or carrying isn't transformed." so I'm guessing this means that they can't polymorph in the middle of a chase, for example, unless they can change into different clothes as well. has anyone managed to get around this?
They can polymorph in the middle of a chase, it's just not very effective if their wearing distinguishing clothes.
If you have them wearing generic equipment that anyone would wear, such as a cloak, it shouldn't look too suspicous to the party members.
PS. Usually dopplegangers would chase in their fake form, not their real form.
Edit: The polymorph means their clothes and equipment dont change or absorb into their skin as they shapechange, they still have them on their attire on.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
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HERE.Just give the doppelganger some glamoured studded leather
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Because of the wording in the statblock:
Are we talking about the spell Polymorph? Because that would have no effect on a Doppelganger.
As for the Doppelganger's own shapechanger ability, any clothing with illusory properties could be reasonably used. A Cloak of Many Fashions should at least provide enough of a change to vanish into a crowd, as long as the character doesn't wear extremely garish and distinct clothes under it.
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Step 1: wear a cloak that covers your outfit underneath
Step 2: get chased
Step 3: duck around corner, remove/discard cloak and change shape
Step 4: Profit
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One of my Doppelgänger NPCs had a magic cloak that could change colour so if this was going to be a risk they would duck out of view, change form and change the cloak, it reached down to the floor so they could easily cover up shoes etc.
Remember, depending on the world, as a Doppelgänger you may be rare and unknown so the DM should be able to tell you if people will assume that is what you are. It took a long while for my party to realise what they thought was a gang was actually 1 individual.
Because a Dopplegnager is not like Odo from DS9, they do not change there skin to look like clothing.
Could be that they're simply only able to replicate living matter with their shape shifting. They can grow scales or change their skin etc, but they can't make their body look and feel like cloth or metal etc. Really this is consistent with other transformation abilities in the game. Changelings and the alter self spell do not alter your clothing or equipment for example.
In terms of game design, it adds a layer of strategy. It's still a powerful tool but one with limitations to work around. If a player has an ability like this they would need to use strategy and not use the shape shifting as a crutch. For an enemy, this limitation could be used to give the party a means to figure out what's going on if pursuing a doplegangar.
It's a bit weird historically.
In AD&D: "Note: A doppleganger actually forms itself into the likeness of the clothing and equipment of the imitated creature as well as the physical features thereof"
In 3.5e, the 'change shape' trait does not discuss clothes, but since it specifies 'humanoid form' presumably does not.
In 4e, the basic doppelganger could not replicate clothing, but higher level (monster) doppelgangers had illusion abilities that let them replicate clothing and equipment.
Taking a 'humanoid form' IMO doesn't include clothes unless it specifically says that it does. Clothes are not naturally part of a humanoid. Though maybe older editions interpreted rules differently, going by the 5E nature of 'abilities only do what they say they do' I'd be inclined to say no here.
In general I provide them with equipment that can change form, style, color, etc or it is something they seek if they are a "young" NPC/PC. Why? it makes things they do or generally want to do so much easier.
Yeah. And as always a DM can choose to tweak things and let them change their clothing too if they prefer it that way.
Nah, it's because they expected the higher level versions to function differently. A level 3 doppelganger sneak is just the spy you have to find. A level 11 doppelganger infiltrator is the monster where you expect it to use its abilities in combat.
The equipment isn't transformed as the dopplegangers body is. Meaning that the clothing stays the same, Wizards probably clairified the difference because some monsters can choose to have clothes or other equipment sucked into your body instead.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.You seem to have answered your own question. If you want to do things like 'sow confusion by there being two of a person there', you need the ability to replicate equipment. And the higher level version actually has specific powers intended to help it sow confusion.
A doppelgänger is going to know the limitations of its own transformation and adjust accordingly. It is not going to wear a flamboyant and easily recognisable set of armour - if is going to wear clothing that blends into its surroundings.
Imagine you are chasing a man down the street wearing something relatively generic - a plain white button down and khakis, or something similarly generic for the environment you are in. Without you noticing, they transform into someone who looks completely different - different hair, different skin colour, different gait, etc. You pass them on the street and your mind likely will not even register they’re the same clothing due to the major difference in every other feature.
In game, you can add to this effect by throwing in other NPCs wearing similar clothing. Could lead to some interesting moments when the party starts tracking someone just trying to get home from work, having confused that person for their target.
Like Toga? From MHA.
Call me Blond. James Blond.
An invisibility cloak!
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Yes. This is D&D. Monsters have loot when you defeat them
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)