The old risk was a loss of constitution point permanently on a failed casting.
The new version only has temporary losses. Be happy about that.
Only if you are lucky " Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress." In character that is a pretty high risk of not being every to cast your most powerful spell ever again. Out of character the same is true unless you know it is the final fight of the campaign and whether the character can cast wish in future doesn't matter to the player.
If multiple spellcasters cast wish at once, does the effect stack? If so, that would definitely be game breaking as just about every aspect of reality would be permanently destroyable or changeable.
If multiple spellcasters cast wish at once, does the effect stack? If so, that would definitely be game breaking as just about every aspect of reality would be permanently destroyable or changeable.
What do you "does the effect stack"? Give an example, because I'm not sure what you mean.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
If multiple spellcasters cast wish at once, does the effect stack? If so, that would definitely be game breaking as just about every aspect of reality would be permanently destroyable or changeable.
What do you "does the effect stack"? Give an example, because I'm not sure what you mean.
Can a wish become more powerful i.e., perform tasks of increasing difficulty with greater success, if it is collectively casted by a group?
The idea of stackable wishes is sort of built into older editions ideas of epic/elven high/circle magics and Mythal building. Sadly in straight 5e such things no longer exist as they called for L20+ casters and those (except for the rare FR NPC) no longer exist.
The only limit on Wish in older editions was that the wish was subject to DM interpretation, regardless of player or PC intent. There was no need to boost a wish in older editions, nor any mechanic for it that would make any sense. (Caveat, I don't know 4e that well. Maybe they added something in 4e)
Far as I can determine, 4e didn't have Wish at all. If it was there, it would probably have been a ritual that was enormously expensive to cast.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Fair enough. I don't mind house-ruling a price for Wish of 5K XP and/or up to a week of bedrest. It's still worth it by far.
I think you are underestimating though 5e's R.A.W. penalty for interesting wishes which is a 33% chance of permanently loosing access to the spell.
In A&3e there was a price because you could theoretically have all the wishes you could ever want otherwise; limitlessly. I have a list of like 100 wishes I'd make in a row over the course of 3 months downtime that would statistically maximize my entire character. If only I actually have wish; the 3e Bard caps out at 6th level magic.
In 5e you face a practical limitation of about 3 good wishes. So there isn't really more of a price, because you can't really use it to excess the way you can in 2&3.
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I think you are underestimating though 5e's R.A.W. penalty for interesting wishes which is a 33% chance of permanently loosing access to the spell.
My point is that you could completely remove the ability to cast 'interesting wishes' and what was left over would still be overpowered. In fact, the easiest fix would be to change
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower. You don't need to meet any requirements in that spell, including costly components. The spell simply takes effect.
to
The basic use of this spell is to duplicate any other spell of 8th level or lower with a casting time of 1 action and no costly components.
Even that would be a good utility spell (better than any prior edition), but it kills most of the stupid stuff.
Perhaps, but I don't think Wish is meant to simply be a utility spell. It's meant to be a Capstone spell. A thing like Apotheosis that is the point of pursuing certain classes to all the way to that high a level potentially sacrificing multiclass dip opportunities / Gishing opportunities to acquire this one final prize of a spell that can potentially make your CR rival that of Outsiders - Angels and Demons, etc. It's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The 'stupid stuff' is where the fun of it comes from.
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Perhaps, but I don't think Wish is meant to simply be a utility spell. It's meant to be a Capstone spell. A thing like Apotheosis that is the point of pursuing certain classes to all the way to that high a level potentially sacrificing multiclass dip opportunities / Gishing opportunities to acquire this one final prize of a spell that can potentially make your CR rival that of Outsiders - Angels and Demons, etc. It's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The 'stupid stuff' is where the fun of it comes from.
You can still do the stupid stuff. You just have a 1/3 chance of losing the spell forever when you do.
Meaning the 'fun of it' is nerfed. In this case just because we 'can' still do the stupid stuff doesn't necessarily mean that we will actually choose to do it. Tactically, I would be disinclined to risk loosing access to the spell just to have fun doing something stupid; rather I will be more likely to conserve the spell, and just use it for mundane things in a R.A.W. campaign. IMHO this is not as good for enjoyableness of the spell as versions with another price but no risk of loosing the spell. I would use it more liberally if I didn't have to worry about loosing it, and IMHO that means I would enjoy having it all the more.
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Just using it for "replicate any spell of level 1-8, instantly and ignoring requirements such as expensive materials and having the spell on your spell list" is plenty powerful and has no risk.
Kinda. You're using L9 slot, of which you only get one each day and can be used for things like Meteor Swarm, to cast a L8 (or lower) spell,must without material components. It's not a bad spell by any means...but "OP" or "broken" isn't really how I'd describe a spell like that.
Just using it for "replicate any spell of level 1-8, instantly and ignoring requirements such as expensive materials and having the spell on your spell list" is plenty powerful and has no risk.
Kinda. You're using L9 slot, of which you only get one each day and can be used for things like Meteor Swarm, to cast a L8 (or lower) spell,must without material components. It's not a bad spell by any means...but "OP" or "broken" isn't really how I'd describe a spell like that.
clone army
That is easily countered by any DM. There is no shortage of literature delving into the risks of clone armies. Plus can only produce one per day.
If we're talking about simulacrum, if you cast the actual simulacrum spell while also having wish prepared, the simulacrum can (rules as written) cast wish to create a simulacrum of you the caster. And that new simulacrum, which would also have access to wish due to you having the spell prepared and a 9th level slot open, can cast wish to create another simulacrum of you the caster. Since it is always a different entity who is casting the spell, the previous simulacra don't get destroyed in the process. And this process can repeat ad infinitum.
Obviously no DM in their right mind would allow this, but it is a rules loophole that exists.
Another thing to note is that wish can copy any spell of 8th level or lower. Which means you can use it to copy planar binding as an action without the risk of breaking concentration on any of the summoning spells, which can be upcast to 8th level according to Jeremy Crawford. So that means with adequate downtime, you can amass a small army of extraplanar beings to do your bidding, since each instance of the binding lasts for 180 days (roughly 6 months).
It also lets you cast spells like teleportation circle for "free" (you give up a 9th level slot), so again with at least a year's downtime, you can just have a permanent teleportation circle without paying a single gold coin.
Downtime at high levels is OP, especially with spells like wish, and this can especially be something to bear in mind with archmage NPCs.
You use the Magic Circle spell to get around risks of losing concentration. This is even mentioned in the Planar Binding spell description. The wish would be saving the 1,000 gp gem cost of casting the binding and save an hour of casting but is not actually needed there...
There is some debate I've come across on that, like whether or not the magic circle actually stops the creature from vanishing if it's summoned by something like summon greater demon or conjure elemental. So if I were to err on the side of caution, I'd prefer either casting planar binding as an action through wish, casting planar binding from a 5th level glyph of warding, or having someone else in the party cast the spell (most likely a cleric or druid, since they always know that at 9th+ level, and can just prepare it).
Only if you are lucky " Finally, there is a 33 percent chance that you are unable to cast wish ever again if you suffer this stress." In character that is a pretty high risk of not being every to cast your most powerful spell ever again. Out of character the same is true unless you know it is the final fight of the campaign and whether the character can cast wish in future doesn't matter to the player.
Doesn't take any luck as long as you don't push the limits.
The old version effected your permanent constitution score.
The new version only removes the ability to cast the spell again.
If multiple spellcasters cast wish at once, does the effect stack? If so, that would definitely be game breaking as just about every aspect of reality would be permanently destroyable or changeable.
What do you "does the effect stack"? Give an example, because I'm not sure what you mean.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Can a wish become more powerful i.e., perform tasks of increasing difficulty with greater success, if it is collectively casted by a group?
The idea of stackable wishes is sort of built into older editions ideas of epic/elven high/circle magics and Mythal building. Sadly in straight 5e such things no longer exist as they called for L20+ casters and those (except for the rare FR NPC) no longer exist.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Far as I can determine, 4e didn't have Wish at all. If it was there, it would probably have been a ritual that was enormously expensive to cast.
If a player and the DM are trying to screw over the other, Wish isn't the problem.
Communication always fixes everything. Before a player takes Wish, the DM could explain the acceptable limits as the PHB allows for the DM.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The problem is that the 'acceptable limits' are still overpowered.
Fair enough. I don't mind house-ruling a price for Wish of 5K XP and/or up to a week of bedrest. It's still worth it by far.
I think you are underestimating though 5e's R.A.W. penalty for interesting wishes which is a 33% chance of permanently loosing access to the spell.
In A&3e there was a price because you could theoretically have all the wishes you could ever want otherwise; limitlessly. I have a list of like 100 wishes I'd make in a row over the course of 3 months downtime that would statistically maximize my entire character. If only I actually have wish; the 3e Bard caps out at 6th level magic.
In 5e you face a practical limitation of about 3 good wishes. So there isn't really more of a price, because you can't really use it to excess the way you can in 2&3.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
My point is that you could completely remove the ability to cast 'interesting wishes' and what was left over would still be overpowered. In fact, the easiest fix would be to change
to
Even that would be a good utility spell (better than any prior edition), but it kills most of the stupid stuff.
Perhaps, but I don't think Wish is meant to simply be a utility spell. It's meant to be a Capstone spell. A thing like Apotheosis that is the point of pursuing certain classes to all the way to that high a level potentially sacrificing multiclass dip opportunities / Gishing opportunities to acquire this one final prize of a spell that can potentially make your CR rival that of Outsiders - Angels and Demons, etc. It's the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The 'stupid stuff' is where the fun of it comes from.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
You can still do the stupid stuff. You just have a 1/3 chance of losing the spell forever when you do.
Meaning the 'fun of it' is nerfed. In this case just because we 'can' still do the stupid stuff doesn't necessarily mean that we will actually choose to do it. Tactically, I would be disinclined to risk loosing access to the spell just to have fun doing something stupid; rather I will be more likely to conserve the spell, and just use it for mundane things in a R.A.W. campaign. IMHO this is not as good for enjoyableness of the spell as versions with another price but no risk of loosing the spell. I would use it more liberally if I didn't have to worry about loosing it, and IMHO that means I would enjoy having it all the more.
Thank you for your time and please have a very pleasant day.
I've actually been mulling over a character where something like this was the backstory...
Eventually getting freed, and still having a spark of power left over becoming a genie pack warlock.
clone army
If we're talking about simulacrum, if you cast the actual simulacrum spell while also having wish prepared, the simulacrum can (rules as written) cast wish to create a simulacrum of you the caster. And that new simulacrum, which would also have access to wish due to you having the spell prepared and a 9th level slot open, can cast wish to create another simulacrum of you the caster. Since it is always a different entity who is casting the spell, the previous simulacra don't get destroyed in the process. And this process can repeat ad infinitum.
Obviously no DM in their right mind would allow this, but it is a rules loophole that exists.
Another thing to note is that wish can copy any spell of 8th level or lower. Which means you can use it to copy planar binding as an action without the risk of breaking concentration on any of the summoning spells, which can be upcast to 8th level according to Jeremy Crawford. So that means with adequate downtime, you can amass a small army of extraplanar beings to do your bidding, since each instance of the binding lasts for 180 days (roughly 6 months).
It also lets you cast spells like teleportation circle for "free" (you give up a 9th level slot), so again with at least a year's downtime, you can just have a permanent teleportation circle without paying a single gold coin.
Downtime at high levels is OP, especially with spells like wish, and this can especially be something to bear in mind with archmage NPCs.
There is some debate I've come across on that, like whether or not the magic circle actually stops the creature from vanishing if it's summoned by something like summon greater demon or conjure elemental. So if I were to err on the side of caution, I'd prefer either casting planar binding as an action through wish, casting planar binding from a 5th level glyph of warding, or having someone else in the party cast the spell (most likely a cleric or druid, since they always know that at 9th+ level, and can just prepare it).