Sure a wizard can cast both spells without much trouble
"Without much trouble". These discussions always make me giggle. teleportation circle is 5th level, which means you need to be at least a 9th-level wizard to cast it
How many of those do you think are running around in whatever world it is you're talking about, exactly? Much less how many would have the time and/or inclination to rent themselves out to make a circle permanent for someone else
I don't know. I see a lot of instances of the mage stat block in official adventures, and that's a 9th level wizard. So for the Forgotten Realms, I'd hazard to say quite a few of them. For Eberron, they'd probably be a lot rarer to find, but one particular dragonmarked house (Orien) does get access to the spell as long as they have 5th level slots, and transportation is their business. As for the time, did you just ignore that whole paragraph I wrote about an artificer possibly making it their mission to make the permanent circles more practical to set up?
To put it another way, when I was writing that whole thing, I was basing it on how technology advances in our own world. We have a technology that's so rare and so complex, that it's massively expensive, almost no-one knows how it works, and it's reserved only for a select few. But then, as time goes by, people find ways to make the resources easier to come by, the techniques more refined to the point where more and more people can replicate them, and the knowledge more widespread through education. All that ultimately results in a technology that becomes commonplace, and potentially anyone can use it. And this can be the objective of an artificer character over the course of a campaign, because artificers are problem solvers. That is what I was trying to get at with my imaginary scenario, but instead of acknowledging that and commenting on it, you nitpicked on one detail that isn't even universal across settings.
It wasn't a nitpick. You casually dismissed the idea that casting a 5th-level spell is actually a big freaking deal, and impossible for the vast majority of the population of pretty much every campaign world in existence. As for mages in officially published adventures... that's like finding a bookshelf dedicated to military history and assuming the world is crawling with generals and brilliant strategists. You're making the very basic mistake -- one a lot of players seem to make -- of assuming that things relevant to PCs are "normal" in a campaign world. They're not. PCs, by definition, are exceptional, and 9th-level PCs (and their NPC peers) even moreso
Eberron is, by intent, the exception to the rule -- if magic could be industrialized, this is what the world would look like. Any lessons you might take from Eberron simply aren't applicable to other campaign worlds -- or rather, any world those lessons would be applicable to would already have become Eberron-like
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Sure a wizard can cast both spells without much trouble
"Without much trouble". These discussions always make me giggle. teleportation circle is 5th level, which means you need to be at least a 9th-level wizard to cast it
How many of those do you think are running around in whatever world it is you're talking about, exactly? Much less how many would have the time and/or inclination to rent themselves out to make a circle permanent for someone else
I don't know. I see a lot of instances of the mage stat block in official adventures, and that's a 9th level wizard. So for the Forgotten Realms, I'd hazard to say quite a few of them. For Eberron, they'd probably be a lot rarer to find, but one particular dragonmarked house (Orien) does get access to the spell as long as they have 5th level slots, and transportation is their business. As for the time, did you just ignore that whole paragraph I wrote about an artificer possibly making it their mission to make the permanent circles more practical to set up?
To put it another way, when I was writing that whole thing, I was basing it on how technology advances in our own world. We have a technology that's so rare and so complex, that it's massively expensive, almost no-one knows how it works, and it's reserved only for a select few. But then, as time goes by, people find ways to make the resources easier to come by, the techniques more refined to the point where more and more people can replicate them, and the knowledge more widespread through education. All that ultimately results in a technology that becomes commonplace, and potentially anyone can use it. And this can be the objective of an artificer character over the course of a campaign, because artificers are problem solvers. That is what I was trying to get at with my imaginary scenario, but instead of acknowledging that and commenting on it, you nitpicked on one detail that isn't even universal across settings.
It wasn't a nitpick. You casually dismissed the idea that casting a 5th-level spell is actually a big freaking deal, and impossible for the vast majority of the population of pretty much every campaign world in existence. As for mages in officially published adventures... that's like finding a bookshelf dedicated to military history and assuming the world is crawling with generals and brilliant strategists. You're making the very basic mistake -- one a lot of players seem to make -- of assuming that things relevant to PCs are "normal" in a campaign world. They're not. PCs, by definition, are exceptional, and 9th-level PCs (and their NPC peers) even moreso
Eberron is, by intent, the exception to the rule -- if magic could be industrialized, this is what the world would look like. Any lessons you might take from Eberron simply aren't applicable to other campaign worlds -- or rather, any world those lessons would be applicable to would already have become Eberron-like
I wasn't casually dismissing it, or at least that wasn't my intent. I know that 5th level spells are very rare in most settings. They're exceptional even in Eberron. But for those wizards which had mastered these spells, they've become trivial to cast after a while, but they keep that knowledge close to their chest more often than not, so it's rarely (if ever) given a chance to be reverse engineered by people who might have the magical knowledge to attempt that but not the years of study and practice with actual spellcasting 9th+ level wizards have on their belt.
And I know Eberron is special in that regard. I wasn't saying that every setting has to be that way, but I am saying that every setting has the potential to be that way, and the PCs (which you yourself have acknowledged as being exceptional) can effect that change or at least lay the foundation for it.
It wasn't a nitpick. You casually dismissed the idea that casting a 5th-level spell is actually a big freaking deal, and impossible for the vast majority of the population of pretty much every campaign world in existence. As for mages in officially published adventures... that's like finding a bookshelf dedicated to military history and assuming the world is crawling with generals and brilliant strategists. You're making the very basic mistake -- one a lot of players seem to make -- of assuming that things relevant to PCs are "normal" in a campaign world. They're not. PCs, by definition, are exceptional, and 9th-level PCs (and their NPC peers) even moreso
Eberron is, by intent, the exception to the rule -- if magic could be industrialized, this is what the world would look like. Any lessons you might take from Eberron simply aren't applicable to other campaign worlds -- or rather, any world those lessons would be applicable to would already have become Eberron-like
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I wasn't casually dismissing it, or at least that wasn't my intent. I know that 5th level spells are very rare in most settings. They're exceptional even in Eberron. But for those wizards which had mastered these spells, they've become trivial to cast after a while, but they keep that knowledge close to their chest more often than not, so it's rarely (if ever) given a chance to be reverse engineered by people who might have the magical knowledge to attempt that but not the years of study and practice with actual spellcasting 9th+ level wizards have on their belt.
And I know Eberron is special in that regard. I wasn't saying that every setting has to be that way, but I am saying that every setting has the potential to be that way, and the PCs (which you yourself have acknowledged as being exceptional) can effect that change or at least lay the foundation for it.