Which would be fine if the speeds weren't millions of miles a day vs 4 miles per hour. Heck galleons with decent wind outpace these ships. They need a step between the 2 and honestly the bottom should be more than 4 mph. Top speed of my space ship in atmosphere is a brisk walking pace...
One large difference in the 5E rules compared to 2E rules for ship movement, or flying anything for that matter, was movement class. Classes A through F. Smaller, faster things such as birds up through flitters, MV Class A. Larger ships moved down the scale. All original Spelljammer ships had a MC rating.
This was true on the sea or in the air, and described the rate of turn. Example, in 5E, how fast can a Galleon do a 180, at speed? The only thing I can find is, the ship can face to bring all weapons to bear immediately. While this streamlines play, it also negates running a faster ship to gain the ability to outmaneuver the larger ship. If all ships move the same, and turn the same, would it not simply be suicide to use a smaller vessel with fewer hull points?
The Movement classes add that in by showing exactly what the turn looks like on a hex grid and allowing skilled pilots to pull off “adventurer level” maneuvers.
The Movement classes were set for all things aerial in the 1st edition DMG Pg. 50-52 with degrees and hex grid examples. As 5E doesnt have these, I will be keeping them at our table, simply because they make sense.
One thing I dont get with the 5E speeds, a ship on the water has to overcome literal tons of pressure from the water to move. Once it leaves the water, shouldn’t it go faster as there is less than 1/10th of the resistance? Slightly faster in space due to well, no resistance?
A rule we use is; Ships in the water follow standard speeds for similar ships of their size/type. Once airborne, x2. In space add an additional 1/4 of water speed. Spelljamming speeds remain the same.
Hope this helps you. See you ‘round the ‘verse.
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Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
It feels like they just took the old ruleset, rough out anything that didn't translate or seemed too complicated, and didn't replace any of the cut material.
I would NOT put this past them...
WotC work lately felt like low effort "your DM just has to figure this out" non-chalant work phylosophy, for them to then go and make a mock up interview on YT where the each pat their backs for a job "well done"..., evne tho the thing as more Holes in it than a swiss cheese...
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"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
I have been informed of a more elegant solution: The natural definition of Flying includes flying through space. Nothing mechanically states that you need air to fly...
so, the push off rules in the Weightlessness section enable you to choose the higher speed of walk, fly, or swim to move... and if you can fly, you can continue using your natural flight speed to move through space, because real world physics doesn't need to apply, you can beat your wings against the vacuum and still move forward. We're HP Lovecraft flying through the aether up in this.
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Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Based on a token line of dialogue, I'm given to understand that super speed kicks in around 1 mile out from another object which would mean that as soon as you are about 5200 feet abouve the ocean you cause everyone on the planet's ears to explode as you accelerate to Mach 5213.294461 (just going by my rough table math).
Also you're sudden acceleration may cause the atmosphere to ignite from the sheer friction of your 13 ton flying fish rocketing off.
I'll humbly suggest exploring the DMsGuild supplement: Spelljammer Combat & Exploration. It uses wotc 2022 as the base frame to flesh out all of the added mechanics needed to run a campaign using 5e rules. It's built ground-up with options from the DMG.
Page 67 of the supplement provides rules for maximum speeds and escape time for different scales of planetary bodies. It also provides guidance on how to determine orbiting speeds for planets moons etc, how the unique gravity mechanics can be used to create more options like exploring asteroid fields and building communities on the rings around planets, wildsystem random generator, and a 25 page conversion guide for Light of Xaryxis to make the different chapters work together using a unified 5e travel system for astral travel.
RAW, once you are 1 mile above the surface of a planet, you can go into Wildspace and move at the spelljamming speed (100,000,000 mi/ day). Bear in mind that Wildspace is a blend of the material plane and the astral plane; you still breathe, eat, drink, and bring your own air envelope into it's vacuum. So ... the transition to Wildspace might be thought of like the transition to the Astral plane, it is an inherent ability of the spelljamming ship that can be used one mile away from any object with a mass of one ton or more.
This should take about 15 minutes (1/4 of an hour) in a ship with speed of 35 ft/ round.
Remember that Wildspace is not quite outer space but a blend of the material plans and the astral plane. I think of it like the border ethereal vs the deep ethereal.
You still eat, drink and age in Wildspace and bring your own air envelope into Wildspace, which is inherently a vacuum, so while you carry your own air envelope and are presumably visible to the people on the planet, you aren't in the atmosphere when you transition to Wildspace and spelljamming speed, 1 mile above the surface.
I don't see a lot of incompatibility between the rules in Ghosts of Salt Marsh and Spelljamming rules. The ship actions can be grafted onto Spelljamming ships, assuming that the vessel has a full complement of crew.
On the other hand, I see no need for detailed rules on the maneuvering of Spelljamming ships, they can turn in place so why not turn on a dime and do a 180 in one turn. since they have their own defined gravity, it's easy enough to say that they have their own inertial frame (until collision whence Everything merges).
Don't get lost in creating your own Physics from the ground up ... that path leads only to madness (and 3.5 rules).
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Which would be fine if the speeds weren't millions of miles a day vs 4 miles per hour. Heck galleons with decent wind outpace these ships. They need a step between the 2 and honestly the bottom should be more than 4 mph. Top speed of my space ship in atmosphere is a brisk walking pace...
Salutations,
One large difference in the 5E rules compared to 2E rules for ship movement, or flying anything for that matter, was movement class. Classes A through F. Smaller, faster things such as birds up through flitters, MV Class A. Larger ships moved down the scale. All original Spelljammer ships had a MC rating.
This was true on the sea or in the air, and described the rate of turn. Example, in 5E, how fast can a Galleon do a 180, at speed? The only thing I can find is, the ship can face to bring all weapons to bear immediately. While this streamlines play, it also negates running a faster ship to gain the ability to outmaneuver the larger ship. If all ships move the same, and turn the same, would it not simply be suicide to use a smaller vessel with fewer hull points?
The Movement classes add that in by showing exactly what the turn looks like on a hex grid and allowing skilled pilots to pull off “adventurer level” maneuvers.
The Movement classes were set for all things aerial in the 1st edition DMG Pg. 50-52 with degrees and hex grid examples. As 5E doesnt have these, I will be keeping them at our table, simply because they make sense.
One thing I dont get with the 5E speeds, a ship on the water has to overcome literal tons of pressure from the water to move. Once it leaves the water, shouldn’t it go faster as there is less than 1/10th of the resistance? Slightly faster in space due to well, no resistance?
A rule we use is; Ships in the water follow standard speeds for similar ships of their size/type. Once airborne, x2. In space add an additional 1/4 of water speed. Spelljamming speeds remain the same.
Hope this helps you. See you ‘round the ‘verse.
Known in other realms as Ranxaeroth.
“Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and good with bar-b-que sauce.” ~Cheshire Dragon
”You can fool most of the people most of the time, but a Sphinx….never.” ~Torwyn Vantalion.
“When the DM smiles, its already to late.” ~many a player.
I would NOT put this past them...
WotC work lately felt like low effort "your DM just has to figure this out" non-chalant work phylosophy, for them to then go and make a mock up interview on YT where the each pat their backs for a job "well done"..., evne tho the thing as more Holes in it than a swiss cheese...
"Normality is but an Illusion, Whats normal to the Spider, is only madness for the Fly"
Kain de Frostberg- Dark Knight - (Vengeance Pal3/ Hexblade 9), Port Mourn
Kain de Draakberg-Dark Knight lvl8-Avergreen(DitA)
I have been informed of a more elegant solution: The natural definition of Flying includes flying through space. Nothing mechanically states that you need air to fly...
so, the push off rules in the Weightlessness section enable you to choose the higher speed of walk, fly, or swim to move... and if you can fly, you can continue using your natural flight speed to move through space, because real world physics doesn't need to apply, you can beat your wings against the vacuum and still move forward. We're HP Lovecraft flying through the aether up in this.
Formerly Devan Avalon.
Trying to get your physical content on Beyond is like going to Microsoft and saying "I have a physical Playstation disk, give me a digital Xbox version!"
Based on a token line of dialogue, I'm given to understand that super speed kicks in around 1 mile out from another object which would mean that as soon as you are about 5200 feet abouve the ocean you cause everyone on the planet's ears to explode as you accelerate to Mach 5213.294461 (just going by my rough table math).
Also you're sudden acceleration may cause the atmosphere to ignite from the sheer friction of your 13 ton flying fish rocketing off.
I'll humbly suggest exploring the DMsGuild supplement: Spelljammer Combat & Exploration. It uses wotc 2022 as the base frame to flesh out all of the added mechanics needed to run a campaign using 5e rules. It's built ground-up with options from the DMG.
https://www.dmsguild.com/product/474639/Spelljammer-Combat-and-Exploration
Page 67 of the supplement provides rules for maximum speeds and escape time for different scales of planetary bodies. It also provides guidance on how to determine orbiting speeds for planets moons etc, how the unique gravity mechanics can be used to create more options like exploring asteroid fields and building communities on the rings around planets, wildsystem random generator, and a 25 page conversion guide for Light of Xaryxis to make the different chapters work together using a unified 5e travel system for astral travel.
check it out AMA.
fortunately, I kept many of my 2e SJ box sets and books, a few others Ive picked up on e-bay.
Forever Dungeon Master & Storyteller
"A spelljamming ship automatically slows to its flying speed (discussed later in this chapter) when it comes within 1 mile of something weighing 1 ton or more, such as another ship, a kindori (see Boo’s Astral Menagerie), an asteroid, or a planet." --- Spelljammer: Adventures in Space -> Astral Adventurer’s Guide -> Ch2: Astral Adventuring
RAW, once you are 1 mile above the surface of a planet, you can go into Wildspace and move at the spelljamming speed (100,000,000 mi/ day). Bear in mind that Wildspace is a blend of the material plane and the astral plane; you still breathe, eat, drink, and bring your own air envelope into it's vacuum. So ... the transition to Wildspace might be thought of like the transition to the Astral plane, it is an inherent ability of the spelljamming ship that can be used one mile away from any object with a mass of one ton or more.
This should take about 15 minutes (1/4 of an hour) in a ship with speed of 35 ft/ round.
Remember that Wildspace is not quite outer space but a blend of the material plans and the astral plane. I think of it like the border ethereal vs the deep ethereal.
You still eat, drink and age in Wildspace and bring your own air envelope into Wildspace, which is inherently a vacuum, so while you carry your own air envelope and are presumably visible to the people on the planet, you aren't in the atmosphere when you transition to Wildspace and spelljamming speed, 1 mile above the surface.
"How is anyone else thinking on this to handle?"
I don't see a lot of incompatibility between the rules in Ghosts of Salt Marsh and Spelljamming rules. The ship actions can be grafted onto Spelljamming ships, assuming that the vessel has a full complement of crew.
On the other hand, I see no need for detailed rules on the maneuvering of Spelljamming ships, they can turn in place so why not turn on a dime and do a 180 in one turn. since they have their own defined gravity, it's easy enough to say that they have their own inertial frame (until collision whence Everything merges).
Don't get lost in creating your own Physics from the ground up ... that path leads only to madness (and 3.5 rules).