In the One DnD Trailer, they showed a self-made VTT. While that is cool and all, I hope they don't gamify the base program too much and make it widely accessible, instead, or I fear people will stay on other VTTs.
I hope they will add not just a 3D option, but also add a 2D map mode, so one can use 2D drawn maps and stuff in the VTT. Sometimes a DM may not have the time to set up some grand scale 3D terrain or simply wants to use a quick draft or drawing for a random encounter or so on like on a Real Table, sometimes pen and paper can safe your DMs life. I like the 3D terrain for a big boss fight or for reoccurring places like a party's house or a guild hall etc. but I prefer to use 2D grid maps for mostly all else like random encounters or unplanned for events. Also, many players love using drawn art for their characters and would like them to be represented on the map as 2D tokens or 2.5D propped up pictures instead of 3D Figures which, no matter how customizable these figures will be, will most likely not satisfy everyone.
It would also help if they learn from existing VTTs like from Foundry VTT on how good dynamic lighting works and how to manage a good self-sustaining add-on/modding community, as that would basically help them grow the VTTs popularity and versatility without doing or paying anything themselves other than maintaining and polishing the base program they made. Or from Roll20s group search function tool as that is very decent.
What do you all think about that? Especially about the 2D map mode. Also, feel free to leave a comment with your own thoughts on this topic.
With building their own VTT we can assume they will release their adventures in the VTT system. WOTC and other companies have released adventures on other VTT tabletops, but I would like to see a feature that I have not seen i any f the releases so far.
With English not being my first language and being dyslexic reading out the room description test boxes and also pinging the map to help the players to know where the things in the description are on the map can be difficult for me.
I hope they will consider having a option where you can click the box text and select a option to play a pre recorded narration of that text to the people in the game. I would not mind paying a bit extra for the sounds files.
I think it really depends on how they do it. A prime example is Mansions of Madness. They tried to monopolize the modules and experience by making it impossible to make your own modules. No map editor. If you wanted to play, you had to buy their stuff. Problem is that a lot of people enjoy making their own stuff so they need to create a way to allow this with whatever they do. Some of us can't keep playing the same Campaigns over and over. If they go 3D, I'm not opposed necessarily, but they need to have all the interaction with effects, weather, darkness, sounds ect, that foundry or other online VTT's have or most people will probably stay in their comfort zones. It's got to be equal or better than the competition. I'm a big Foundry VTT fan so, ya they're a little late to the table with this. :)
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To know the light, you must sometimes experience the dark.
I definitely think a 2D map mode would be a very useful component. I know the Unreal engine performs quite well, but I also know that I've played in groups with people who have VERY low-end computers that have trouble keeping up with Roll20, much less more advanced VTTs like Foundry. I think the only concern would be how it handles maps of varying elevation, and flying creatures/players.
As for the tokens, I would allow both 3D and propped-up 2D tokens, assuming that "propped-up 2D" means it looks like the old board game tokens where you had a flat cardboard cut-out stuck vertically into a plastic base. I think allowing those 2D tokens would make it much easier for user-generated tokens, they could just upload an image instead of creating a full model.
I like the idea of making it moddable, though in video games I've played with extensive modding communities, you get a LOT of garbage mods. It would be nice if there was a way to have a curated library of mods that have proven useful & stable
I don't want them to gamify it too much but there are a few things that 3d can do that I feel are lost in 2d maps. Chandeliers- dropping things on enemies is something that happens from time to time in movies and fights. In theater of the mind games people tend to ask more questions about environments with maps people tend to assume the picture tells the story. As someone who has built their own maps in 2d its really hard to put over head items and it not become confusing or easily missed.
Now whatever they do I think that people are missing the biggest and most important selling feature of a VTT linked to DndBeyond. That you would already own the content. Meaning if you bought an adventure on DndBeyond you don't need to buy it again in Roll20.
I think 2D should definitely be an option even if they're going for a primarily 3D VTT in the future. One concern I have is for minis for player characters to do something like that I feel they will have to either do open modding so people can import their own models from wherever that may or be or that they will have to make a way to make a mini with in Beyond which I don't think is impossible but I'm just not sure how they will go about it. At the very least I think it would be easier for them to let you play on a 2D map similar to other VTT like Roll20 for adventures you have already bought on Beyond, or allow others to upload them for other players to use.
Here are the ways that we play in my groups (I am both DM and player in these groups depending on campaign):
In person: When we're in person, I have a tabletop monitor that is used for maps that minis can be put on top of. We also use that monitor for showing pictures and handouts. We roll dice, we talk, we play like normal.
I'm hoping the One D&D VTT can be utilized as my VTT in this situation. I could show them the terrain as necessary but then have the physical minis on the monitor and use them as before.
Online: When we're online, we use something like Roll20 to act as our tabletop and Discord as our voice/video chat so that we can see each other as if we're in person and still play in such a way that we're playing D&D and not some kind of video game.
I'm hoping that we can use the VTT like this, but let the players have access to look around to places where the fog of war has been removed. We could use it for the battles and some dungeon delving, but I don't want it to be a video game, I want it to be a D&D roleplaying game.
I'm really looking forward to the One D&D VTT to replace the tools I currently use for some things and be able to be imported to from other tools I currently use. If it changes the way we play a little, maybe it will be for the best. I just hope that I don't lose the D&D roleplaying feel with this new VTT.
The VTT would have to be extremely flexible to attract me. I think it can be, but it will probably take some time to develop fully. And I know, as someone who plays in person primarily, I am not the initial target audience. I've looked at using VTTs in person, with a TV laid flat on the table or nearby, but the amount of work they would take to be usable has kept me away, so far. I have a lot of miniatures and terrain that I can pull out and create a million combinations within seconds. I know that's not commonly available to most people, so the VTT can be great for the community. And even I would happily pack those models away if the VTT could replicate that experience.
Things I would like to see (thanks to previous comments for some of these ideas I hadn't thought of):
- All printed modules fully mapped out with proper effects, lighting, monsters, and audio options for text boxes
- The ability to modify any of these things on the fly to fit your game
- A full range of accessibility options for different needs
- 2d versions of all maps
- A way to run it with minimum PC specs, and mobile options
- Quick drag and drop encounter maps, well organized by type - ex. Overgrown Forest Path, Abandoned Dwarven Mineshaft, Jungle Rope Bridge.
- Quick tuners to apply different times of day, seasons, weather, and biomes. I'd like to be able to drop in a forest path to fight on, and quickly adjust it to be nighttime, in the snow, with trees that fit the mountains we are traveling in, and even make it in the feywild or shadow fell, all with the touch of some buttons.
- Drag and drop scenes, like different campsites, a wizard study, or a grand ball. Things that place down a lot of thematic furniture and objects to look at with one click.
- Both 3d models with tons of options, and the choice to use a 2d drawing as both a flat counter on a 2d map, or a 'cardboard' stand for 3d maps.
- A database where users can submit scenes, objects, and creatures with easy tagging system to search.
- An option to export your character as an STL file to 3d print.
- And maybe most importantly, the freedom to change any of the rules whenever you want. If my player wants to jump on the cabinet in the alchemy lab, I should be able to place them there. If they are moving through difficult terrain, it shouldn't lock me into a set distance. It should offer it as a guideline for ease of use in most circumstances, but if my player had a creative way to avoid the movement penalty, I should be able to ignore the rules and place them where I want. If they set the place on fire, I should be able to show that. If they want to break something in the game, I should be able to break it without a lot of work.
Making 3d characters is a lot of fun, if you have enough options to match your imagination. Making 3d maps is fun if you have lots of time and options too. But the beauty of a tabletop RPG over a video game is the freedom to change everything at a moment's notice. If I can do that, then I might be the first subscriber.
If my players can go off the rails and wander into a part of the world I hadn't planned for, and the tool let's me generate a quick map as easily as I can pulling some trees and barrels off the shelf, that's awesome. If it let's me make that map filled with mist and stones with ancient glowing runes that I forgot to get a model for, that's even better. For me, it will have to do a lot, and very quickly.
But just some basic options and covering existing adventures would be a really nice start for a lot of people probably, so I'm excited to see what they come up with.
Do you think having this 3D VTT can be bad for the game?
This Video and this other video among some others voice concerns on how this will affect the game and the RPG hobby as a whole. I don't necessarily agree with them, but food for thought. It seems that only if you end up being required to use their VTT would this be a problem, but who knows.
Anyway, I would like a 2D option, I'm not opposed to 3D, so if it runs smooth, easy to use and navigate, and you are free to just bypass it altogether and use something else if you don't want to use WotC's. I'm fine with it. If it makes it a real chore to run homebrew campaigns, then they shouldn't even bother.
Yeah, ThriKreenWarrior, I almost exclusively run homebrew campaigns, so I definitely need it to be easy to use in that regard for it to appeal to me.
I don't think it will be bad for the game. There are only a few ways I could anticipate that happening.
One would be if they found a way to prevent anyone from playing on other VTTs altogether. I won't say that it's impossible. They are a corporation after all. But they do have one of the better track records of allowing people to use their works pretty liberally. So let's hope that doesn't happen.
The other would be if the rules themselves are modified to make them play better in the VTT than on the table. That's what I was afraid they were doing with the new movement, Hiding, Jumping rules, etc. I really don't want to be playing a video game. But this is still playtest, and I had a lot of things to say on those rules in my feedback haha. So it still remains to be seen.
I'll watch those videos when I have a chance to see if there's something I'm overlooking.
the modding question and options seem more geared to try and make you feel like a heel.
Modding for skins and tokens would be fine. As well as creating modules/content
But I don't think modding, for the community as a whole should allowed for home brew. Allow home brew spells, weapons, etc to only be available to the owner and not a public thing.
Meaning a DM can get or create a mod they like for a weapon unique to their campaign.
It will be interesting to see the explosions of mods when BG3 comes out
i love talespire but i wish there was a quick 2d image loader for continent maps and world maps (or quick 2d encounters like someone mentioned).
i think everything should be moddable, but they might lock things down if they dont want to share their assets, but that stuff gets hacked all the time.
if they can sell vtt modules for like 20-40 bucks (where just the dm has to make purchases), then i could see this as being the go to solution, since many maps have yet to be made in 3d. i do feel bad for some of the people that have made every ravenloft map under the sun for talespire already, but being able to buy a module, buy the vtt and get going once you have a grasp on things sounds awesome.
i share the sentiments that this could equate to another branch of the digital divide, in that, if you need a decent computer to run this stuff, that will close some people off from it, but thats how it is with everything it seems. maybe there could be some kind of streaming solution (or terminal like solution) for low spec computers, so they can just tell the DM where they want to go and the dm will move their token.
i think there is something to be said about the 3d digitized version of dnd changing the feel of the game, in that it becomes more like a mmo which could bring those types of tendencies along with it (for better or worse). ideally, i would love for my in person game to have talespire up since i think that would give the best immersion (besides spending 10k at dwarven forge), but there is still no great solution to that. at best i think you could have the DM with their own screen and a shared screen and mouse/keyboartd for the party. we will likely get AR visuals before getting holographic tables, but AR should be feasible, but the mini size woudl likely need to be increased for better interfacing.
The one definite advantage of 3D VTT is elevations, slopes, and multi-layered maps being much more readable and convenient. But it's very important that VTT is kept as plain as possible, because I don't have 4090 RTX with liquid nitrogen cooling on my laptop. This thing should be playable on a toaster.
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In the One DnD Trailer, they showed a self-made VTT. While that is cool and all, I hope they don't gamify the base program too much and make it widely accessible, instead, or I fear people will stay on other VTTs.
I hope they will add not just a 3D option, but also add a 2D map mode, so one can use 2D drawn maps and stuff in the VTT. Sometimes a DM may not have the time to set up some grand scale 3D terrain or simply wants to use a quick draft or drawing for a random encounter or so on like on a Real Table, sometimes pen and paper can safe your DMs life. I like the 3D terrain for a big boss fight or for reoccurring places like a party's house or a guild hall etc. but I prefer to use 2D grid maps for mostly all else like random encounters or unplanned for events. Also, many players love using drawn art for their characters and would like them to be represented on the map as 2D tokens or 2.5D propped up pictures instead of 3D Figures which, no matter how customizable these figures will be, will most likely not satisfy everyone.
It would also help if they learn from existing VTTs like from Foundry VTT on how good dynamic lighting works and how to manage a good self-sustaining add-on/modding community, as that would basically help them grow the VTTs popularity and versatility without doing or paying anything themselves other than maintaining and polishing the base program they made. Or from Roll20s group search function tool as that is very decent.
What do you all think about that? Especially about the 2D map mode.
Also, feel free to leave a comment with your own thoughts on this topic.
With building their own VTT we can assume they will release their adventures in the VTT system.
WOTC and other companies have released adventures on other VTT tabletops, but I would like to see a feature that I have not seen i any f the releases so far.
With English not being my first language and being dyslexic reading out the room description test boxes and also pinging the map to help the players to know where the things in the description are on the map can be difficult for me.
I hope they will consider having a option where you can click the box text and select a option to play a pre recorded narration of that text to the people in the game.
I would not mind paying a bit extra for the sounds files.
I think it really depends on how they do it. A prime example is Mansions of Madness. They tried to monopolize the modules and experience by making it impossible to make your own modules. No map editor. If you wanted to play, you had to buy their stuff. Problem is that a lot of people enjoy making their own stuff so they need to create a way to allow this with whatever they do. Some of us can't keep playing the same Campaigns over and over. If they go 3D, I'm not opposed necessarily, but they need to have all the interaction with effects, weather, darkness, sounds ect, that foundry or other online VTT's have or most people will probably stay in their comfort zones. It's got to be equal or better than the competition. I'm a big Foundry VTT fan so, ya they're a little late to the table with this. :)
To know the light, you must sometimes experience the dark.
I definitely think a 2D map mode would be a very useful component. I know the Unreal engine performs quite well, but I also know that I've played in groups with people who have VERY low-end computers that have trouble keeping up with Roll20, much less more advanced VTTs like Foundry. I think the only concern would be how it handles maps of varying elevation, and flying creatures/players.
As for the tokens, I would allow both 3D and propped-up 2D tokens, assuming that "propped-up 2D" means it looks like the old board game tokens where you had a flat cardboard cut-out stuck vertically into a plastic base. I think allowing those 2D tokens would make it much easier for user-generated tokens, they could just upload an image instead of creating a full model.
I like the idea of making it moddable, though in video games I've played with extensive modding communities, you get a LOT of garbage mods. It would be nice if there was a way to have a curated library of mods that have proven useful & stable
I think 2d might be a good idea.
I don't want them to gamify it too much but there are a few things that 3d can do that I feel are lost in 2d maps. Chandeliers- dropping things on enemies is something that happens from time to time in movies and fights. In theater of the mind games people tend to ask more questions about environments with maps people tend to assume the picture tells the story. As someone who has built their own maps in 2d its really hard to put over head items and it not become confusing or easily missed.
Now whatever they do I think that people are missing the biggest and most important selling feature of a VTT linked to DndBeyond. That you would already own the content. Meaning if you bought an adventure on DndBeyond you don't need to buy it again in Roll20.
I think 2D should definitely be an option even if they're going for a primarily 3D VTT in the future. One concern I have is for minis for player characters to do something like that I feel they will have to either do open modding so people can import their own models from wherever that may or be or that they will have to make a way to make a mini with in Beyond which I don't think is impossible but I'm just not sure how they will go about it. At the very least I think it would be easier for them to let you play on a 2D map similar to other VTT like Roll20 for adventures you have already bought on Beyond, or allow others to upload them for other players to use.
Gloomstalker Superiority
Here are the ways that we play in my groups (I am both DM and player in these groups depending on campaign):
I'm really looking forward to the One D&D VTT to replace the tools I currently use for some things and be able to be imported to from other tools I currently use. If it changes the way we play a little, maybe it will be for the best. I just hope that I don't lose the D&D roleplaying feel with this new VTT.
The VTT would have to be extremely flexible to attract me. I think it can be, but it will probably take some time to develop fully. And I know, as someone who plays in person primarily, I am not the initial target audience. I've looked at using VTTs in person, with a TV laid flat on the table or nearby, but the amount of work they would take to be usable has kept me away, so far. I have a lot of miniatures and terrain that I can pull out and create a million combinations within seconds. I know that's not commonly available to most people, so the VTT can be great for the community. And even I would happily pack those models away if the VTT could replicate that experience.
Things I would like to see (thanks to previous comments for some of these ideas I hadn't thought of):
- All printed modules fully mapped out with proper effects, lighting, monsters, and audio options for text boxes
- The ability to modify any of these things on the fly to fit your game
- A full range of accessibility options for different needs
- 2d versions of all maps
- A way to run it with minimum PC specs, and mobile options
- Quick drag and drop encounter maps, well organized by type - ex. Overgrown Forest Path, Abandoned Dwarven Mineshaft, Jungle Rope Bridge.
- Quick tuners to apply different times of day, seasons, weather, and biomes. I'd like to be able to drop in a forest path to fight on, and quickly adjust it to be nighttime, in the snow, with trees that fit the mountains we are traveling in, and even make it in the feywild or shadow fell, all with the touch of some buttons.
- Drag and drop scenes, like different campsites, a wizard study, or a grand ball. Things that place down a lot of thematic furniture and objects to look at with one click.
- Both 3d models with tons of options, and the choice to use a 2d drawing as both a flat counter on a 2d map, or a 'cardboard' stand for 3d maps.
- A database where users can submit scenes, objects, and creatures with easy tagging system to search.
- An option to export your character as an STL file to 3d print.
- And maybe most importantly, the freedom to change any of the rules whenever you want. If my player wants to jump on the cabinet in the alchemy lab, I should be able to place them there. If they are moving through difficult terrain, it shouldn't lock me into a set distance. It should offer it as a guideline for ease of use in most circumstances, but if my player had a creative way to avoid the movement penalty, I should be able to ignore the rules and place them where I want. If they set the place on fire, I should be able to show that. If they want to break something in the game, I should be able to break it without a lot of work.
Making 3d characters is a lot of fun, if you have enough options to match your imagination. Making 3d maps is fun if you have lots of time and options too. But the beauty of a tabletop RPG over a video game is the freedom to change everything at a moment's notice. If I can do that, then I might be the first subscriber.
If my players can go off the rails and wander into a part of the world I hadn't planned for, and the tool let's me generate a quick map as easily as I can pulling some trees and barrels off the shelf, that's awesome. If it let's me make that map filled with mist and stones with ancient glowing runes that I forgot to get a model for, that's even better. For me, it will have to do a lot, and very quickly.
But just some basic options and covering existing adventures would be a really nice start for a lot of people probably, so I'm excited to see what they come up with.
Do you think having this 3D VTT can be bad for the game?
This Video and this other video among some others voice concerns on how this will affect the game and the RPG hobby as a whole. I don't necessarily agree with them, but food for thought. It seems that only if you end up being required to use their VTT would this be a problem, but who knows.
Anyway, I would like a 2D option, I'm not opposed to 3D, so if it runs smooth, easy to use and navigate, and you are free to just bypass it altogether and use something else if you don't want to use WotC's. I'm fine with it. If it makes it a real chore to run homebrew campaigns, then they shouldn't even bother.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yeah, ThriKreenWarrior, I almost exclusively run homebrew campaigns, so I definitely need it to be easy to use in that regard for it to appeal to me.
I don't think it will be bad for the game. There are only a few ways I could anticipate that happening.
One would be if they found a way to prevent anyone from playing on other VTTs altogether. I won't say that it's impossible. They are a corporation after all. But they do have one of the better track records of allowing people to use their works pretty liberally. So let's hope that doesn't happen.
The other would be if the rules themselves are modified to make them play better in the VTT than on the table. That's what I was afraid they were doing with the new movement, Hiding, Jumping rules, etc. I really don't want to be playing a video game. But this is still playtest, and I had a lot of things to say on those rules in my feedback haha. So it still remains to be seen.
I'll watch those videos when I have a chance to see if there's something I'm overlooking.
the modding question and options seem more geared to try and make you feel like a heel.
Modding for skins and tokens would be fine. As well as creating modules/content
But I don't think modding, for the community as a whole should allowed for home brew. Allow home brew spells, weapons, etc to only be available to the owner and not a public thing.
Meaning a DM can get or create a mod they like for a weapon unique to their campaign.
It will be interesting to see the explosions of mods when BG3 comes out
i love talespire but i wish there was a quick 2d image loader for continent maps and world maps (or quick 2d encounters like someone mentioned).
i think everything should be moddable, but they might lock things down if they dont want to share their assets, but that stuff gets hacked all the time.
if they can sell vtt modules for like 20-40 bucks (where just the dm has to make purchases), then i could see this as being the go to solution, since many maps have yet to be made in 3d. i do feel bad for some of the people that have made every ravenloft map under the sun for talespire already, but being able to buy a module, buy the vtt and get going once you have a grasp on things sounds awesome.
i share the sentiments that this could equate to another branch of the digital divide, in that, if you need a decent computer to run this stuff, that will close some people off from it, but thats how it is with everything it seems. maybe there could be some kind of streaming solution (or terminal like solution) for low spec computers, so they can just tell the DM where they want to go and the dm will move their token.
i think there is something to be said about the 3d digitized version of dnd changing the feel of the game, in that it becomes more like a mmo which could bring those types of tendencies along with it (for better or worse). ideally, i would love for my in person game to have talespire up since i think that would give the best immersion (besides spending 10k at dwarven forge), but there is still no great solution to that. at best i think you could have the DM with their own screen and a shared screen and mouse/keyboartd for the party. we will likely get AR visuals before getting holographic tables, but AR should be feasible, but the mini size woudl likely need to be increased for better interfacing.
The one definite advantage of 3D VTT is elevations, slopes, and multi-layered maps being much more readable and convenient. But it's very important that VTT is kept as plain as possible, because I don't have 4090 RTX with liquid nitrogen cooling on my laptop. This thing should be playable on a toaster.