Some might be bards, but you also have folks like JJ Abrams who would clearly be a barbarian - after all, he is a hack.
Jokes aside, College of Eloquence is probably the one you would want to go for if you were creating a director character (though likely you’d lean more to theatre than film, unless your DM has some interesting views on what type of media is available). Eloquence, beyond specifically noting its theatric elements in the description, does some solid things with bardic inspiration that feel very directorial - you don’t just inspire them to follow direction, you keep inspiring them even in failure until they get the scene right.
Not sure if this is true or apocryphal but it speaks to a certain truth about George Lucas probably not being in the College of Ellquence:
"George, you can type this s___, but you can't say it." Harrison Ford, allegedly on the set of A New Hope.
Elloquence works for maybe a Brannaugh, maybe an Oliver Stone, Jarmusch, I'd even say Tarrantino, actually definitely Tarrantino, his best works have mini classes on acting embedded in them.
But Lucas and Spielberg ... nah. I could pull their practical effects origins, maybe put James Cameron after them and Ray Harryhausen (I think he's directed) before them for College of Creation, as they literally animate. Glamour speaks to so much filmmaking, including hyperreality vignettes in the commercial filmmaking of the 80s, or French New Wave or New German cinema where there's a lot more going on than the acting, where it's the enthralling mesmerism that some find so compelling and sometimes frightening about film. Lucas work with sort of deep Campbell type myth and Spielberg doing sorts of historic hagiographys (now, even of himself with the Fablemans) speak to college of lore. Spirits not with the two of them, but there actually are historically some uncanny connections between the development of moving pictures, photography and bouts of "spiritualism" and interest in the occult in the U.S. and Europe. Valor may be your Lenie Riefenstahl or whoever directed Auddey Murphy or John Wayne at their most jingoistic (though that ports a certain nationalism or tribalism that isn't fully embraced by WotC in the description, and definitely puts the college in a more cynical light). Whispers could be a range of subversive filmmakers, the sorts who dump conspiracy vids on YouTube and elsewhere, but also more mainstream subversives like Verhoeven's more satirical work, and a lot more underground/indy filmmakers speaking truths that the other colleges don't recognize or find unsettling... David Lynch of course.
To push this, I'd probably swap out instruments for some tool sets. Most D&D worlds don't have functioning cameras, though I'm sure many have tables have fooled around with recording or broadcast scrying devices (my own group, like many groups I think, even did a turn as reality "tv" stars followed around by a "mirror" guy, scrying subscribers could drop messages into the mirror like. Twitch chat). But for strict RAW I'd probably open a director to varied artisanal tools if the player can make a case for it (I'm not going to explain to the Director Bard how to mechanically reproduce their vision, so to speak, so it's on them). Carpentry for set. Maybe homebrew stuff for puppetry or zoetrope constructions. Disguise of course.
Basically a Bard as a director/storyrunner is an entirely workable concept, I think I remember even watching a charity live play where the Bard was a stage director.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Not sure if this is true or apocryphal but it speaks to a certain truth about George Lucas probably not being in the College of Ellquence:
"George, you can type this s___, but you can't say it." Harrison Ford, allegedly on the set of A New Hope.
As far as I'm aware, that story has been corroborated by both Ford and Lucas. Lucas has always had a reputation as someone who regarded dialog as being akin to scenery. It's fairly easy to see if you watch the original trilogy (when other people were able to veto his ideas) vs the prequels (when he was able to do things his way with no pushback).
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I guess it depends on how you envision the character. If you want a bard who acts like a stereotypical Hollywood director, Eloquence is probably your best bet. If you want a bard who stages actual scenes, a reskinned Spirits seems perfect. If you want a genre director who leans heavily into practical special effects, Creation might fit.
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Not sure if this is true or apocryphal but it speaks to a certain truth about George Lucas probably not being in the College of Ellquence:
"George, you can type this s___, but you can't say it." Harrison Ford, allegedly on the set of A New Hope.
As far as I'm aware, that story has been corroborated by both Ford and Lucas. Lucas has always had a reputation as someone who regarded dialog as being akin to scenery. It's fairly easy to see if you watch the original trilogy (when other people were able to veto his ideas) vs the prequels (when he was able to do things his way with no pushback).
Yeah. I think it was about the line “May the force be with you” which, when you’re like the second person to say it, is a pretty crap, nonsensical line. Now, 45 years later it’s just part of the lexicon, even off screen.
Not sure if this is true or apocryphal but it speaks to a certain truth about George Lucas probably not being in the College of Ellquence:
"George, you can type this s___, but you can't say it." Harrison Ford, allegedly on the set of A New Hope.
As far as I'm aware, that story has been corroborated by both Ford and Lucas. Lucas has always had a reputation as someone who regarded dialog as being akin to scenery. It's fairly easy to see if you watch the original trilogy (when other people were able to veto his ideas) vs the prequels (when he was able to do things his way with no pushback).
Yeah. I think it was about the line “May the force be with you” which, when you’re like the second person to say it, is a pretty crap, nonsensical line. Now, 45 years later it’s just part of the lexicon, even off screen.
In all truth, all Lucas's writing style does is separate the actors from the movie stars. Hammill found Lucas's lines just as awkward as Ford did. But, where Hammill worked hard and made the lines work, Ford got butt-hurt and tried to destroy the Millennium Faclon set. Ford is just a movie star. That is why he hated playing Han Solo, a supporting character. Movie stars always want the lead.
And the difference between Hammill and Ford was that Hammill had been an actor for a few years at that point while ANH was Ford's first acting role.
Err, no? Ford had been in Hollywood since the 60s. ANH was his first starring role, but he had plenty of credits before that
The whole "Ford is just a movie star" dismissal is hilarious though, considering his experiences as an extra. There's a pretty famous story about a producer giving him grief one time when he was a bellboy in a scene, telling him "Tony Curtis would have carried those groceries like a movie star!", to which Ford responded, "I thought I was supposed to be carrying them like a bellboy"
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ford had 8 films (and only six credits) prior to Star Wars, none of them Star Wars, he was in Coppola's Conversation where he played "menacing bad guy" with like 2-3 lines ... and the Coppola link is probably how he got onto Lucas's casting people's radar. He was the older of the three leads and had more experience in Hollywood, but was by no means a movie star.
But this thread isn't supposed to be weird "well, actually's" about actor's careers even though the "movie star" corrector was amusingly ill-informed. This is a thread specifically about two blockbuster directors being akin to the Bard class. I agree, though I wouldn't say either of them would be in the College of Eloquence, as especially Lucas has a very technical take on film making where actor's are but one and no more vital, and maybe even less vital, than other parts of the process like scoring, cinematography and of course special effects. There are some directors who'd clearly fall under the Eloquence College, but many filmmakers would likely land in different colleges.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
And the difference between Hammill and Ford was that Hammill had been an actor for a few years at that point while ANH was Ford's first acting role.
Err, no? Ford had been in Hollywood since the 60s. ANH was his first starring role, but he had plenty of credits before that
The whole "Ford is just a movie star" dismissal is hilarious though, considering his experiences as an extra. There's a pretty famous story about a producer giving him grief one time when he was a bellboy in a scene, telling him "Tony Curtis would have carried those groceries like a movie star!", to which Ford responded, "I thought I was supposed to be carrying them like a bellboy"
You know? I'd like to argue this and show you haw even your own words belay Ford as being seen as Movie Star Material. But, that is not why I created the thread. Thank you everyone for your insights.
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I have no idea what that should look like, but movie directors are bards.
I think a Director can be any Bard college, with proficiency in the tools of cinema.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Some might be bards, but you also have folks like JJ Abrams who would clearly be a barbarian - after all, he is a hack.
Jokes aside, College of Eloquence is probably the one you would want to go for if you were creating a director character (though likely you’d lean more to theatre than film, unless your DM has some interesting views on what type of media is available). Eloquence, beyond specifically noting its theatric elements in the description, does some solid things with bardic inspiration that feel very directorial - you don’t just inspire them to follow direction, you keep inspiring them even in failure until they get the scene right.
Not sure if this is true or apocryphal but it speaks to a certain truth about George Lucas probably not being in the College of Ellquence:
"George, you can type this s___, but you can't say it." Harrison Ford, allegedly on the set of A New Hope.
Elloquence works for maybe a Brannaugh, maybe an Oliver Stone, Jarmusch, I'd even say Tarrantino, actually definitely Tarrantino, his best works have mini classes on acting embedded in them.
But Lucas and Spielberg ... nah. I could pull their practical effects origins, maybe put James Cameron after them and Ray Harryhausen (I think he's directed) before them for College of Creation, as they literally animate. Glamour speaks to so much filmmaking, including hyperreality vignettes in the commercial filmmaking of the 80s, or French New Wave or New German cinema where there's a lot more going on than the acting, where it's the enthralling mesmerism that some find so compelling and sometimes frightening about film. Lucas work with sort of deep Campbell type myth and Spielberg doing sorts of historic hagiographys (now, even of himself with the Fablemans) speak to college of lore. Spirits not with the two of them, but there actually are historically some uncanny connections between the development of moving pictures, photography and bouts of "spiritualism" and interest in the occult in the U.S. and Europe. Valor may be your Lenie Riefenstahl or whoever directed Auddey Murphy or John Wayne at their most jingoistic (though that ports a certain nationalism or tribalism that isn't fully embraced by WotC in the description, and definitely puts the college in a more cynical light). Whispers could be a range of subversive filmmakers, the sorts who dump conspiracy vids on YouTube and elsewhere, but also more mainstream subversives like Verhoeven's more satirical work, and a lot more underground/indy filmmakers speaking truths that the other colleges don't recognize or find unsettling... David Lynch of course.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Christopher Nolan is an illusionist wizard
Updog
To push this, I'd probably swap out instruments for some tool sets. Most D&D worlds don't have functioning cameras, though I'm sure many have tables have fooled around with recording or broadcast scrying devices (my own group, like many groups I think, even did a turn as reality "tv" stars followed around by a "mirror" guy, scrying subscribers could drop messages into the mirror like. Twitch chat). But for strict RAW I'd probably open a director to varied artisanal tools if the player can make a case for it (I'm not going to explain to the Director Bard how to mechanically reproduce their vision, so to speak, so it's on them). Carpentry for set. Maybe homebrew stuff for puppetry or zoetrope constructions. Disguise of course.
Basically a Bard as a director/storyrunner is an entirely workable concept, I think I remember even watching a charity live play where the Bard was a stage director.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
As far as I'm aware, that story has been corroborated by both Ford and Lucas. Lucas has always had a reputation as someone who regarded dialog as being akin to scenery. It's fairly easy to see if you watch the original trilogy (when other people were able to veto his ideas) vs the prequels (when he was able to do things his way with no pushback).
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I guess it depends on how you envision the character. If you want a bard who acts like a stereotypical Hollywood director, Eloquence is probably your best bet. If you want a bard who stages actual scenes, a reskinned Spirits seems perfect. If you want a genre director who leans heavily into practical special effects, Creation might fit.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yeah. I think it was about the line “May the force be with you” which, when you’re like the second person to say it, is a pretty crap, nonsensical line. Now, 45 years later it’s just part of the lexicon, even off screen.
And to stay on topic, bard makes sense, but lots of directors have to be warlocks, cause you know they made a deal with someone to have their career.
Once again, what you're after is the Warlord from 4e. ;P
In all truth, all Lucas's writing style does is separate the actors from the movie stars. Hammill found Lucas's lines just as awkward as Ford did. But, where Hammill worked hard and made the lines work, Ford got butt-hurt and tried to destroy the Millennium Faclon set. Ford is just a movie star. That is why he hated playing Han Solo, a supporting character. Movie stars always want the lead.
Actually, Hammill also argued with Lucas over some particularly atrocious lines that didn't make it into the final cut.
And the difference between Hammill and Ford was that Hammill had been an actor for a few years at that point while ANH was Ford's first acting role.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Err, no? Ford had been in Hollywood since the 60s. ANH was his first starring role, but he had plenty of credits before that
The whole "Ford is just a movie star" dismissal is hilarious though, considering his experiences as an extra. There's a pretty famous story about a producer giving him grief one time when he was a bellboy in a scene, telling him "Tony Curtis would have carried those groceries like a movie star!", to which Ford responded, "I thought I was supposed to be carrying them like a bellboy"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Ford had 8 films (and only six credits) prior to Star Wars, none of them Star Wars, he was in Coppola's Conversation where he played "menacing bad guy" with like 2-3 lines ... and the Coppola link is probably how he got onto Lucas's casting people's radar. He was the older of the three leads and had more experience in Hollywood, but was by no means a movie star.
But this thread isn't supposed to be weird "well, actually's" about actor's careers even though the "movie star" corrector was amusingly ill-informed. This is a thread specifically about two blockbuster directors being akin to the Bard class. I agree, though I wouldn't say either of them would be in the College of Eloquence, as especially Lucas has a very technical take on film making where actor's are but one and no more vital, and maybe even less vital, than other parts of the process like scoring, cinematography and of course special effects. There are some directors who'd clearly fall under the Eloquence College, but many filmmakers would likely land in different colleges.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
ok what are we even talking bout lol star wars????
In God I Trust
You know? I'd like to argue this and show you haw even your own words belay Ford as being seen as Movie Star Material. But, that is not why I created the thread.
Thank you everyone for your insights.