The "A bit concerned" comment was in response to the initial rumors of the OGL 1.1 and the WoTC PR release on Dec 21. Since the full OGL 1.1 leak has occurred and more information has come to light, I've updated my comment. This is very troubling. I am unlikely to produce any more content for DnD and will probably quit for another RPG system.
B. You own the new and original content You create. You agree to give Us a nonexclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, sub-licensable, royalty-free license to use that content for any purpose.
Under OGL: Commercial at around page 7
Edit: Sorry, 2 places, page 7 and 14
I stand corrected! Though there is the sentiment to contemplate (not legal or anything, but...
X. OTHER PRODUCTS. Sometimes, great minds think alike. We can’t and won’t cancel products out of fear that they’d be seen as “similar to” Licensed Works. Therefore:
Which implies that, as I had suspected, this is purely to cover them aganst people trying to claim that they thought of it first.
The problem is that they're currently trying to weasel out of the OGL 1.0a despite having claimed that they not only wouldn't but couldn't for two decades.
That means that any trust that might normally be given to a business is stripped from them by their own actions.
If those terms existed in a different context, one where they weren't busy making it clear they were untrustworthy, then their non-legally-binding implication (but not even promise) that they don't intend to steal people's stuff might be reassuring. But in the context of them weaseling out of a past agreement that was significantly more binding than a mere implication, there's no reason to believe they won't abuse the fact that they have the right to outright copy-paste your exact text.
Kobold Press has been and always will be committed to open gaming and the tabletop community. Our goal is to continue creating the best materials for players and game masters alike... As we look ahead, it becomes even more important for our actions to represent our values. While we wait to see what the future holds, we are moving forward with clear-eyed work on a new Core Fantasy tabletop ruleset: available, open, and subscription-free for those who love it—Code Name: Project Black Flag.
All Kobolds look forward to the continued evolution of tabletop gaming. We aim to play our part in making the game better for everyone. Rest assured, Kobold Press intends to maintain a strong presence in the tabletop RPG community. We are not going anywhere.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
With the new OGL foundry won't be able to update a 5e system, you will still have what is already downloaded, but it will forever be static. I am not sure how each individual VTT would handle this, some would probably cut a deal with WotC/Hasbro, but others might not afford a deal.
I think several companies will just cut their losses, which I think might be the point. It isn't a coincidence that DnDBeyond is working on a VTT. How does a CEO from microsoft monetize DnD? Microtransactions would be my guess, and with literally zero competition, I have a feeling they are going to be rather obnoxious and all around terrible.
The most defeatist part of my brain is telling me, that they are actively going to steal content, to pad their own platform/VTT.
I will not be paying another dime for D&D while they are threating this community. Hasbro and WotC want to force everyone on to their platform to pay subscription fees and microtransactions. If Hasbro wants to be EA, they will earn only ire for it. My group left before during the 4E era. 5th edition was a needed apology that brought my friends and I back. Now it seems all the people in change of WotC have either been replaced or left the company and all the lessons learned have been forgotten. This looks like nothing but an attempt to extort from their most ardent supporters. I draw a line with this. WotC have had a steady customer who has bought all their source books for the whole of the 3E and then 5E era. They want to go scorched earth on independent creators, then I will drop them and go elsewhere.
I think it is quite interesting to see the community united in this way. I haven't read a single post which states 'yeah, cool, go on wizards'. Then I ask myself: how the hack, from the perspective of a company, came up the idea of this insane OGL 1.1? If I destroy the community, who will buy my stuff?
I think it is quite interesting to see the community united in this way. I haven't read a single post which states 'yeah, cool, go on wizards'. Then I ask myself: how the hack, from the perspective of a company, came up the idea of this insane OGL 1.1? If I destroy the community, who will buy my stuff?
It's the sort of decision that seems like it would have been made by someone who fundamentally doesn't understand how tabletop RPGs like DnD work, and how they've evolved over the years.
Someone who doesn't understand that if players decide they dislike a current system, most don't even have to shop for an alternative to keep playing - because they've got shelves and shelves of alternative, fully developed systems they can turn to in a heartbeat.
Most members of the community aren't hurting for alternatives to OneDnD, printed, in their possession - though they may have been hurting for a reason to get them to play something else.
I think it is quite interesting to see the community united in this way. I haven't read a single post which states 'yeah, cool, go on wizards'. Then I ask myself: how the hack, from the perspective of a company, came up the idea of this insane OGL 1.1? If I destroy the community, who will buy my stuff?
They aren't expecting people to be in favor of the change. They expect the majority of people to not care, and they don't actually care about the health of the 3PP, they care about how much money they get out of it.
the one thing that the other systems don't have is DndBeyond, which is, as far as I'm aware, the frontrunner (by a long way) of this form of online access. However, as many of the original team have left, I'm sure another similar site will be created soon enough for our next favorite system...
Picking this up from twitter. An acceptable mea culpa would be to issue OGL 1.0b, which would be 1.0a with irrevocability (excepting the existing clause) and coverage for all forms of media and expression. Nix NFTs if you want; I don't really care, because NFTs are stupid.
Hasbro wants a cash cow? This would be a cash cow.
Hello DND Beyond Community. I don't do online forums really, and I don't expect this post to blow up but I feel like a lot of us have dirt laundry to air out because of the OGL changes, so I'm making this post for those who choose not to speak up on the internet. I for one am canceling my Subscription to this website and refuse to buy any new books. This OGL change feels like a slap in the face of what DND IS ALL ABOUT!!! This OGL change is monopolizing DND for cooperate greed and monetization of 3rd party content creators by making them pay royalties. Inclusivity, freedom of expression of oneself, and the ability to be whoever or whatever you want in a semi escape from reality with friends around a table or online. These changes crush everything DND IS and SHOULD be about. I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS! RISE UP FOR THE FUTURE OF TTRPGS AND THEIR CREATORS! TAKE A STAND AND BE THE VOICE FOR THE COMMUNTIY!
Hello DND Beyond Community. I don't do online forums really, and I don't expect this post to blow up but I feel like a lot of us have dirt laundry to air out because of the OGL changes, so I'm making this post for those who choose not to speak up on the internet. I for one am canceling my Subscription to this website and refuse to buy any new books. This OGL change feels like a slap in the face of what DND IS ALL ABOUT!!! This OGL change is monopolizing DND for cooperate greed and monetization of 3rd party content creators by making them pay royalties. Inclusivity, freedom of expression of oneself, and the ability to be whoever or whatever you want in a semi escape from reality with friends around a table or online. These changes crush everything DND IS and SHOULD be about. I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS! RISE UP FOR THE FUTURE OF TTRPGS AND THEIR CREATORS! TAKE A STAND AND BE THE VOICE FOR THE COMMUNTIY!
....You do realize that the leak isn't fully verified at this point, right?
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
Basically I love D&D and I don’t want anything to change (though I don’t mind One D&D cause those changes seem to be mostly for the better). But that’s exactly what this new OGL is doing, bringing very negative change to an otherwise peaceful ecosystem. As a result, I decided I don’t like it either.
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I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
Hello DND Beyond Community. I don't do online forums really, and I don't expect this post to blow up but I feel like a lot of us have dirt laundry to air out because of the OGL changes, so I'm making this post for those who choose not to speak up on the internet. I for one am canceling my Subscription to this website and refuse to buy any new books. This OGL change feels like a slap in the face of what DND IS ALL ABOUT!!! This OGL change is monopolizing DND for cooperate greed and monetization of 3rd party content creators by making them pay royalties. Inclusivity, freedom of expression of oneself, and the ability to be whoever or whatever you want in a semi escape from reality with friends around a table or online. These changes crush everything DND IS and SHOULD be about. I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS! RISE UP FOR THE FUTURE OF TTRPGS AND THEIR CREATORS! TAKE A STAND AND BE THE VOICE FOR THE COMMUNTIY!
....You do realize that the leak isn't fully verified at this point, right?
I don't think *not verified* term is no longer apt for this situation. I consider it basically verified now, but just not yet *official* and subject to change..
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Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
Basically I love D&D and I don’t want anything to change (though I don’t mind One D&D cause those changes seem to be mostly for the better). But that’s exactly what this new OGL is doing, bringing very negative change to an otherwise peaceful ecosystem. As a result, I decided I don’t like it either.
That makes sense I guess. But it is still very much a possibility that the leaked version of Open Game License 1.1 is either inaccurate or not the final draft.
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BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
BoringBard While it is commendable to be optimistic, there is a vast preponderance of the evidence that makes it crystal clear that the leaked 1.1 OGL text is what has been floated to several third-party publishers.
At any point, since Thursday, wizards of the Coast could have explicitly stated that the leaked information is incorrect, however, the closest they have come as a single Twitter statement that they will be “answering questions” about the OGL.
At this point, the best case scenario that you hope for is that they will fully back down and deny 1.1 was their creation - however, to do this, they must have constant pressure from the community. The wait and see approach does not provide this pressure and therefore isn’t the logical option.
Basically I love D&D and I don’t want anything to change (though I don’t mind One D&D cause those changes seem to be mostly for the better). But that’s exactly what this new OGL is doing, bringing very negative change to an otherwise peaceful ecosystem. As a result, I decided I don’t like it either.
That makes sense I guess. But it is still very much a possibility that the leaked version of Open Game License 1.1 is either inaccurate or not the final draft.
Genuinely how? How could that be a possibility? The company would have put out this PR wildfire in seconds if it were false? We have seen the full document that was sent out? Are we thinking WOTC sent out a draft document rather than a final one? Because man that would smack of major incompetence. And even if this is a draft it means this was an intended creation.
At this point it is beyond any reasonable doubt that these are valid and true.
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The "A bit concerned" comment was in response to the initial rumors of the OGL 1.1 and the WoTC PR release on Dec 21. Since the full OGL 1.1 leak has occurred and more information has come to light, I've updated my comment. This is very troubling. I am unlikely to produce any more content for DnD and will probably quit for another RPG system.
https://sayeth.itch.io/
The problem is that they're currently trying to weasel out of the OGL 1.0a despite having claimed that they not only wouldn't but couldn't for two decades.
That means that any trust that might normally be given to a business is stripped from them by their own actions.
If those terms existed in a different context, one where they weren't busy making it clear they were untrustworthy, then their non-legally-binding implication (but not even promise) that they don't intend to steal people's stuff might be reassuring. But in the context of them weaseling out of a past agreement that was significantly more binding than a mere implication, there's no reason to believe they won't abuse the fact that they have the right to outright copy-paste your exact text.
EN World is reporting that Kobold Press is beginning work on a new Fantasy TTRPG rule set that will be Open Source and Royalty Free.
https://www.enworld.org/threads/ogl-kobold-press-raising-our-flag-for-new-open-rpg.694324/
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Depending on what VTT you are using, it won't.
With the new OGL foundry won't be able to update a 5e system, you will still have what is already downloaded, but it will forever be static. I am not sure how each individual VTT would handle this, some would probably cut a deal with WotC/Hasbro, but others might not afford a deal.
I think several companies will just cut their losses, which I think might be the point. It isn't a coincidence that DnDBeyond is working on a VTT. How does a CEO from microsoft monetize DnD? Microtransactions would be my guess, and with literally zero competition, I have a feeling they are going to be rather obnoxious and all around terrible.
The most defeatist part of my brain is telling me, that they are actively going to steal content, to pad their own platform/VTT.
I will not be paying another dime for D&D while they are threating this community. Hasbro and WotC want to force everyone on to their platform to pay subscription fees and microtransactions. If Hasbro wants to be EA, they will earn only ire for it. My group left before during the 4E era. 5th edition was a needed apology that brought my friends and I back. Now it seems all the people in change of WotC have either been replaced or left the company and all the lessons learned have been forgotten. This looks like nothing but an attempt to extort from their most ardent supporters. I draw a line with this. WotC have had a steady customer who has bought all their source books for the whole of the 3E and then 5E era. They want to go scorched earth on independent creators, then I will drop them and go elsewhere.
I think it is quite interesting to see the community united in this way. I haven't read a single post which states 'yeah, cool, go on wizards'. Then I ask myself: how the hack, from the perspective of a company, came up the idea of this insane OGL 1.1? If I destroy the community, who will buy my stuff?
It's the sort of decision that seems like it would have been made by someone who fundamentally doesn't understand how tabletop RPGs like DnD work, and how they've evolved over the years.
Someone who doesn't understand that if players decide they dislike a current system, most don't even have to shop for an alternative to keep playing - because they've got shelves and shelves of alternative, fully developed systems they can turn to in a heartbeat.
Most members of the community aren't hurting for alternatives to OneDnD, printed, in their possession - though they may have been hurting for a reason to get them to play something else.
Well, reason received.
They aren't expecting people to be in favor of the change. They expect the majority of people to not care, and they don't actually care about the health of the 3PP, they care about how much money they get out of it.
the one thing that the other systems don't have is DndBeyond, which is, as far as I'm aware, the frontrunner (by a long way) of this form of online access. However, as many of the original team have left, I'm sure another similar site will be created soon enough for our next favorite system...
Picking this up from twitter. An acceptable mea culpa would be to issue OGL 1.0b, which would be 1.0a with irrevocability (excepting the existing clause) and coverage for all forms of media and expression. Nix NFTs if you want; I don't really care, because NFTs are stupid.
Hasbro wants a cash cow? This would be a cash cow.
Boy I can't wait for the next survey. Sure wish I had waited on filling out the last one.
Hello DND Beyond Community. I don't do online forums really, and I don't expect this post to blow up but I feel like a lot of us have dirt laundry to air out because of the OGL changes, so I'm making this post for those who choose not to speak up on the internet. I for one am canceling my Subscription to this website and refuse to buy any new books. This OGL change feels like a slap in the face of what DND IS ALL ABOUT!!! This OGL change is monopolizing DND for cooperate greed and monetization of 3rd party content creators by making them pay royalties. Inclusivity, freedom of expression of oneself, and the ability to be whoever or whatever you want in a semi escape from reality with friends around a table or online. These changes crush everything DND IS and SHOULD be about. I WILL NOT STAND FOR THIS! RISE UP FOR THE FUTURE OF TTRPGS AND THEIR CREATORS! TAKE A STAND AND BE THE VOICE FOR THE COMMUNTIY!
....You do realize that the leak isn't fully verified at this point, right?
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.Basically I love D&D and I don’t want anything to change (though I don’t mind One D&D cause those changes seem to be mostly for the better). But that’s exactly what this new OGL is doing, bringing very negative change to an otherwise peaceful ecosystem. As a result, I decided I don’t like it either.
I really like D&D, especially Ravenloft, Exandria and the Upside Down from Stranger Things. My pronouns are she/they (genderfae).
I don't think *not verified* term is no longer apt for this situation. I consider it basically verified now, but just not yet *official* and subject to change..
Info, Inflow, Overload. Knowledge Black Hole Imminent!
That makes sense I guess. But it is still very much a possibility that the leaked version of Open Game License 1.1 is either inaccurate or not the final draft.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.To the legal team and/or executives at WoTC/Hasbro;
Are you insane? This "OGL 1.1" is not open in the least, rapacious, detrimental, and predatory.
#opendnd
BoringBard While it is commendable to be optimistic, there is a vast preponderance of the evidence that makes it crystal clear that the leaked 1.1 OGL text is what has been floated to several third-party publishers.
At any point, since Thursday, wizards of the Coast could have explicitly stated that the leaked information is incorrect, however, the closest they have come as a single Twitter statement that they will be “answering questions” about the OGL.
At this point, the best case scenario that you hope for is that they will fully back down and deny 1.1 was their creation - however, to do this, they must have constant pressure from the community. The wait and see approach does not provide this pressure and therefore isn’t the logical option.
Genuinely how? How could that be a possibility? The company would have put out this PR wildfire in seconds if it were false? We have seen the full document that was sent out? Are we thinking WOTC sent out a draft document rather than a final one? Because man that would smack of major incompetence. And even if this is a draft it means this was an intended creation.
At this point it is beyond any reasonable doubt that these are valid and true.