I think the main things to take away here is that they seem to be focusing on appeasing d&d content creators and rewriting the narrative of the release. TTRPG companies can probably still expect a hard time and as such I hope paizo continues on course with the ORC licence and legal challenges to any attempted revoking of 1.0a.
EDITED THIS BIT (based on a misreading of the article, which I'm glad I caught onto quickly). Basically it's a case of yeah, if that was planned to be your final release, either your lawyers are incompetent or your intentions are malicious
Final point, we haven't seen what's in 2.0 yet, keep your eyes open and if you are invested in protecting open gaming don't let up the pressure until they lay out their new copy in a release. Wait and see first, hopefully we see what they have to say for themselves soon enough.
That statement is an insult to my intelligence. I cannot fathom how the Hasbro c-suite execs cannot see they crossed a line and are so far past it they cannot even see the line anymore. Anything short of acknowledging that OGL 1.0a in not revocable is not acceptable.
That statement is an insult to my intelligence. I cannot fathom how the Hasbro c-suite execs cannot see they crossed a line and are so far past it they cannot even see the line anymore. Anything short of acknowledging that OGL 1.0a in not revocable is not acceptable.
Why would they do that? Making 1.0a irrevocable would not stop anyone from making/moving over to ORC. They have literally nothing to gain.
i hope those PR folks are paid well and get overtime. If anyone at WoTC is working hard, it's certainly them
I mean not really, it took them how long to phrase a response to this lol.
not only how long it took, but given that time, how BAD a response it still is!
as PR campaigns go, this one is bad!
Well, the PR people probably had something ready is short order. But then it needed approval up the corporate chain, and probably someone was saying, let’s wait to release this until we see how it shakes out. The reply was posted 8am pacific time. To me, that says it was done yesterday, and they were waiting to see how bad things got overnight. Then when they did get bad, someone finally clicked post.
Yeah, it was a PR debacle, but I blame management over the PR folks. I can only imagine how angry they are at having to pick up after someone else’s unforced error. Yes, that’s what PR does, but it kept getting worse because of management.
Why would they do that? Making 1.0a irrevocable would not stop anyone from making/moving over to ORC. They have literally nothing to gain.
ORC is, frankly... irrelevant and people are trying to make it matter when it doesn't.
OGL 1.0a is not important for being an open license, there are zillions of those. It's important because it covers the 3.0, 3.5, and 5.0 SRDs, and unless Wizards releases those under ORC (spoiler: not happening) the existence of ORC does not matter.
The main reason why: literally the first two points brought up are the emotion-first distraction arguments. IE: "We want to protect D&D from NFTs!" and "We're trying to stop offensive content!". Neither of which is a real consideration. Be VERY careful when a corporation pretends to use words like "love" or "caring": because corporations do neither of those.
Why would they do that? Making 1.0a irrevocable would not stop anyone from making/moving over to ORC. They have literally nothing to gain.
ORC is, frankly... irrelevant and people are trying to make it matter when it doesn't.
OGL 1.0a is not important for being an open license, there are zillions of those. It's important because it covers the 3.0, 3.5, and 5.0 SRDs, and unless Wizards releases those under ORC (spoiler: not happening) the existence of ORC does not matter.
All that pre-existing content is safe per the press release. Sure it means you can't make new content under OGL 1.0a for 3.5, but... was that going to sell anyway, really? At some point you acknowledge a dead edition is dead and move on. Even 5e itself has a shelf life.
Honestly, until we have the actual language of 2.0 (and don't trust leaks because, well, they probably haven't finished the document yet and you can't leak something that doesn't exist) it's too soon to either declare victory or declare that Wizards is just gaslighting and hasn't done anything.
The last time the document leaked, it was later proven to be materially accurate.
If the sources are the same as last time, there's every rational reason to continue believing them.
I'm 54. I've been playing 44 years. I bought the original red and blue boxes when it was the only thing available. I've bought every book they ever published. Most of the minis, most of the doodads and goodies that are D&D related are on my shelves. I will never spend another penny on any WoTC sold item. How's that for spending money in the past on them? This was reprehensible and shows just how badly led WoTC really is. Their only interest is my pocketbook at this point. I don't care what they say or how they say it. They have shown their cards and I will not sit at the table with people of this low calibre.
The last time the document leaked, it was later proven to be materially accurate.
If the sources are the same as last time, there's every rational reason to continue believing them.
(a) the sources are not the same (the source for 1.1 was the actual documents sent to creators, no creators have received the 2.0 document), and (b) we already know it's out of date.
The last time the document leaked, it was later proven to be materially accurate.
If the sources are the same as last time, there's every rational reason to continue believing them.
(a) the sources are not the same (the source for 1.1 was the actual documents sent to creators, no-one has received the 2.0 document), and (b) we already know it's out of date.
I'm not talking about documents in the wild today. The comment I quoted implied the same old, "I'm not going to trust it until proven-liar Wizards of the Coast says it, because leaks aren't trustworthy."
I'm not talking about documents in the wild today. The comment I quoted implied the same old, "I'm not going to trust it until proven-liar Wizards of the Coast says it, because leaks aren't trustworthy."
Wizards deserves zero trust at the moment. None.
I don't trust Wizards. I'm just not willing to claim they're lying without reliable evidence. When people actually get the 2.0 license, it will be quite easy to figure out if they're lying, but I don't believe that the revised license even fully exists at this point -- if it did, they would have released it.
Too much stupid, infuriating stuff in this non-apology to even go over.
Also way to throw the D&D Beyond staff under the bus by making it seem like the letter was written by them. Leadership needs to take accountability instead of making it seem like decisions are coming from DDB staff. Feckless cowards, the lot of them.
I support any and all Hasbro/WotC/DDB staff striking or protesting these inane decisions in whatever manner they choose. I hope y'all are allowed to unionize. (And seriously, why hasn't it happened yet? Paizo did it back in 2021!)
I would buy their explanation if not for the fact that it took them 37 years to respond. They didn't publish the OGL publicly, and we were told specifically that there as an NDA gagging those they sent it to. PLUS, there was a DEADLINE. You can't say "we always intended to listen to your feedback, but we still made the deadline a week away and we didn't plan to release this to the public until after it was signed". This belief that the customers are idiots is part and parcel of bad corporate leadership.
I'm not talking about documents in the wild today. The comment I quoted implied the same old, "I'm not going to trust it until proven-liar Wizards of the Coast says it, because leaks aren't trustworthy."
Wizards deserves zero trust at the moment. None.
I don't trust Wizards. I'm just not willing to claim they're lying without reliable evidence. When people actually get the 2.0 license, it will be quite easy to figure out if they're lying, but I don't believe that the revised license even fully exists at this point -- if it did, they would have released it.
They've lied repeatedly about the intent and purpose of the OGL, in bad faith, which is easily demonstrated by looking into recent statements and publications from the folks who created it.
They lied, in their statement, about submitting a draft for community feedback - which is also easily verified by recent statements by the folks who received 1.1.
This post is ...... very tone deaf. How is that possible with the team of people pouring through all our feedback?
Gas lighting by WOTC and changing their stories because they just weren't successful.... Not promising anything with substance. Heck even couching the terms "we both win"..... is bull crap. Players "win" by creating stories together. WOTC seems to think that "winning" is just more $$$. You know your statements in this response are easily disproved by the obvious facts of reality right?
WOTC: Don't tell us your "intentions" are noble and you "rolled a 1" on your efforts. Back up your post up with a real OGL or just ..... die and hopefully take down part of Hasbro's executive team with you. Players can easily move to other platforms and games.
Still cautious here. This isn't an apology - not really.
Not me, baby! I bought the red book in DH Holmes in Houma Lousiana in 1979 and have been a bookbag carrying nerd ever since. I've bought almost everything that was ever published about D&D. Never run a homebrew campaign, I liked using the modules, loved reading them before I took my friends through the world they created in my mind. I'm pretty sure I'll never pay for another WoTC published book again. They've shown how they think. I don't play with scumbags.
I haven't read the whole thread, but I am curious if any moderators of DNDBeyond have written in response to what we're discussing here or in other threads?
I think the main things to take away here is that they seem to be focusing on appeasing d&d content creators and rewriting the narrative of the release. TTRPG companies can probably still expect a hard time and as such I hope paizo continues on course with the ORC licence and legal challenges to any attempted revoking of 1.0a.
EDITED THIS BIT (based on a misreading of the article, which I'm glad I caught onto quickly). Basically it's a case of yeah, if that was planned to be your final release, either your lawyers are incompetent or your intentions are malicious
Final point, we haven't seen what's in 2.0 yet, keep your eyes open and if you are invested in protecting open gaming don't let up the pressure until they lay out their new copy in a release. Wait and see first, hopefully we see what they have to say for themselves soon enough.
Chilling kinda vibe.
That statement is an insult to my intelligence. I cannot fathom how the Hasbro c-suite execs cannot see they crossed a line and are so far past it they cannot even see the line anymore. Anything short of acknowledging that OGL 1.0a in not revocable is not acceptable.
Why would they do that? Making 1.0a irrevocable would not stop anyone from making/moving over to ORC. They have literally nothing to gain.
Well, the PR people probably had something ready is short order. But then it needed approval up the corporate chain, and probably someone was saying, let’s wait to release this until we see how it shakes out.
The reply was posted 8am pacific time. To me, that says it was done yesterday, and they were waiting to see how bad things got overnight. Then when they did get bad, someone finally clicked post.
Yeah, it was a PR debacle, but I blame management over the PR folks. I can only imagine how angry they are at having to pick up after someone else’s unforced error. Yes, that’s what PR does, but it kept getting worse because of management.
ORC is, frankly... irrelevant and people are trying to make it matter when it doesn't.
OGL 1.0a is not important for being an open license, there are zillions of those. It's important because it covers the 3.0, 3.5, and 5.0 SRDs, and unless Wizards releases those under ORC (spoiler: not happening) the existence of ORC does not matter.
Yeah... no: I smell a rat...
The main reason why: literally the first two points brought up are the emotion-first distraction arguments. IE: "We want to protect D&D from NFTs!" and "We're trying to stop offensive content!". Neither of which is a real consideration. Be VERY careful when a corporation pretends to use words like "love" or "caring": because corporations do neither of those.
All that pre-existing content is safe per the press release. Sure it means you can't make new content under OGL 1.0a for 3.5, but... was that going to sell anyway, really? At some point you acknowledge a dead edition is dead and move on. Even 5e itself has a shelf life.
The last time the document leaked, it was later proven to be materially accurate.
If the sources are the same as last time, there's every rational reason to continue believing them.
I'm 54. I've been playing 44 years. I bought the original red and blue boxes when it was the only thing available. I've bought every book they ever published. Most of the minis, most of the doodads and goodies that are D&D related are on my shelves. I will never spend another penny on any WoTC sold item. How's that for spending money in the past on them? This was reprehensible and shows just how badly led WoTC really is. Their only interest is my pocketbook at this point. I don't care what they say or how they say it. They have shown their cards and I will not sit at the table with people of this low calibre.
(a) the sources are not the same (the source for 1.1 was the actual documents sent to creators, no creators have received the 2.0 document), and (b) we already know it's out of date.
I'm not talking about documents in the wild today. The comment I quoted implied the same old, "I'm not going to trust it until proven-liar Wizards of the Coast says it, because leaks aren't trustworthy."
Wizards deserves zero trust at the moment. None.
I don't trust Wizards. I'm just not willing to claim they're lying without reliable evidence. When people actually get the 2.0 license, it will be quite easy to figure out if they're lying, but I don't believe that the revised license even fully exists at this point -- if it did, they would have released it.
Too much stupid, infuriating stuff in this non-apology to even go over.
Also way to throw the D&D Beyond staff under the bus by making it seem like the letter was written by them. Leadership needs to take accountability instead of making it seem like decisions are coming from DDB staff. Feckless cowards, the lot of them.
I support any and all Hasbro/WotC/DDB staff striking or protesting these inane decisions in whatever manner they choose. I hope y'all are allowed to unionize. (And seriously, why hasn't it happened yet? Paizo did it back in 2021!)
I would buy their explanation if not for the fact that it took them 37 years to respond. They didn't publish the OGL publicly, and we were told specifically that there as an NDA gagging those they sent it to. PLUS, there was a DEADLINE. You can't say "we always intended to listen to your feedback, but we still made the deadline a week away and we didn't plan to release this to the public until after it was signed". This belief that the customers are idiots is part and parcel of bad corporate leadership.
They've lied repeatedly about the intent and purpose of the OGL, in bad faith, which is easily demonstrated by looking into recent statements and publications from the folks who created it.
They lied, in their statement, about submitting a draft for community feedback - which is also easily verified by recent statements by the folks who received 1.1.
This post is ...... very tone deaf. How is that possible with the team of people pouring through all our feedback?
Gas lighting by WOTC and changing their stories because they just weren't successful.... Not promising anything with substance. Heck even couching the terms "we both win"..... is bull crap. Players "win" by creating stories together. WOTC seems to think that "winning" is just more $$$. You know your statements in this response are easily disproved by the obvious facts of reality right?
WOTC: Don't tell us your "intentions" are noble and you "rolled a 1" on your efforts. Back up your post up with a real OGL or just ..... die and hopefully take down part of Hasbro's executive team with you. Players can easily move to other platforms and games.
Still cautious here. This isn't an apology - not really.
Not me, baby! I bought the red book in DH Holmes in Houma Lousiana in 1979 and have been a bookbag carrying nerd ever since. I've bought almost everything that was ever published about D&D. Never run a homebrew campaign, I liked using the modules, loved reading them before I took my friends through the world they created in my mind. I'm pretty sure I'll never pay for another WoTC published book again. They've shown how they think. I don't play with scumbags.
Ultimately DND Should Be For Everyone Not Just Wizards of The Coast Or Hasbro
I have no doubt that dnd will survive but I doubt wizards of the coast will have as much of a hold on it
I haven't read the whole thread, but I am curious if any moderators of DNDBeyond have written in response to what we're discussing here or in other threads?
1 shot dungeon master