Already did may renew depending on their final version but signs don't look promising. Either way I'll milk their free options for all their worth they just don't get anymore cash from me unless they earn back trust.
Already cancelled my subscription and will boycott all WOTC and Hasbro products until they stop planning changes to the OGL.
It doesn't need to change. It's worked great for 22 years. It encourages healthy competition and great products. D&D Beyond was one of those products until very recently. It has also allowed more niche content to get created that simply would never exist otherwise.
The OGL has helped make the D&D community what it is today and revoking it will destroy that. Look at the damage that has already been done. This is poor conduct by Hasbro and WOTC. D&D has never been better than it is now and would have only got stronger as more people discover the VTT spaces that exist and our up-and-coming. They will have a hard time monopolising these spaces which is what it seems the new license is really about.
DnDBeyond never relied on the OGL - if it did, it wouldn't be able to distribute any rules outside the SRD/Basic, and no setting material. Even before being bought out, they had a custom license.
The new OGL isn't about a monopoly - which wouldn't be possible in this industry anyway because you can't copyright game mechanics - it's about no longer subsidizing their competition.
WOTC didn't have to write OGL 1.0a. The law didn't require that they release the SRD. They weren't required to release the SRD for 5e. They deserve more credit than they are getting. Yes, OGL 1.1 was a huge step in the wrong direction. They've admitted to the misstep and are saying they will present something more acceptable to the community. Now the community should do their part of waiting to see what they come back with. If you want to try other games, good on you! I have a bookshelf loaded with other games. But I'm not going to throw away my 5e books or give up on One D&D because of this mistake. 4e was a mistake to many and we forgave them.
Something about this current era makes folks judge more harshly than is fair, view every action in the worst light and refuse forgiveness to the penitent.
This isn't one mistake though: The quality of books has been on a downward trend for a good while, Hasbro has gouged MTG Fans just recently with everything in the MTG 30 debacle in similar bad faith, Investor calls have highlighted the "Under monetized" nature of the product, they tried to strongarm 3rd party publishers into the ludicrously unfair OGL 1.1 which would limit future D&D content, they coward and took a week to make any sort of comment when this news came out, and their apology out right lies, calling their contract a draft.
As consumers we want better products and a better community, Hasbro has started a trend to harm both; money talks, it is perfectly reasonable to take my cash else where until this trend is reversed, and it takes longer to build good faith than to trash it. I am not throwing any of my books away, but there either needs to be an extreme show of good faith or at the very least, fair business and a long time before I put more money in their hands.
The parts I was most worried about seem to have been removed. One of my groups all use dnd beyond through me so I'll leave it going. Could still change depending on final OGL that hits, but as of now I'm keeping it.
I already canceled. I will wait and see what happens next—action, not promises. When the new OGL comes out, I'll see if I renew.
I'm also curious to know what's going on internally. They have done a lot of damage. I've been playing for 35 years. This is how you kill a brand fast.
The parts I was most worried about seem to have been removed. One of my groups all use dnd beyond through me so I'll leave it going. Could still change depending on final OGL that hits, but as of now I'm keeping it.
They "removed" and tweaked some stuff but they left it open to re-insert it again at a future time when they lock down everyone. Read the wording carefully of the leaked 2.0 OGL. It's just as predatory but it is using clever wordplay to try to appear as something else.
That depends entirely on the actual content of their new OGL.
If they actually give up on trying to strongarm 3rd party creators, then I might.
The new OGL would have to: - guarantee that 1.0a is irrevocable and that any content and SDR they've created for older editions will remain in effect, even for future content. Basicly, that the first batch of content under the terms of the new OGL will be DnD One. So everything created under a 1.0a SDR will remain that way. - remove any mention of getting a perpetual and irrevocable license to use 3rd party creations. Even if it really was just an oversight, the phrasing would allow them to do exactly that - steal 3rd party content. Even if they don't plan to use it that way, even having the option is an intolerable condition for any OGL. - not have royalty clauses that would bankrupt any company. Seriously, a 20 - 25 % royalty is not sustainable. WotC or Hasbro themselves couldn't sustain that on their products. - not be revocable at will. Creators need to have certainty of what the terms of the OGL are and will be. Having the ability to just change it at any time, with 30 days notice, is just too unreliable. If they want to change the terms of their OGL, they need to create a new OGL. And anything they or 3rd parties have created under the old OGL will remain in effect under the terms of the old OGL.
I already canceled. I will wait and see what happens next—action, not promises. When the new OGL comes out, I'll see if I renew.
I'm also curious to know what's going on internally. They have done a lot of damage. I've been playing for 35 years. This is how you kill a brand fast.
this is the approach I am taking as well. I'll still be playing D&D, but not through Beyond. I have a play group that plays 3.5 and we meet up about once a month, but as all my 5e stuff is through this site I probably wont be using it much in the future unless OGL 1.0a is left intact.
I canceled yesterday. My subscription runs out in August, as I paid yearly, but I'm going to aim to have my campaign finished by then and will be reading through the Starfinder book I picked up last night.
It's been a fun near-five years, but their blatant lying and gaslighting over this whole situation (sending out "drafts" that are to be signed and then supposed to be revealing them publicly the day they're meant to go into effect - um, that's not a draft) has been the motivation I need to try other tabletop games.
I canceled yesterday. My subscription runs out in August, as I paid yearly, but I'm going to aim to have my campaign finished by then and will be reading through the Starfinder book I picked up last night.
It's been a fun near-five years, but their blatant lying and gaslighting over this whole situation (sending out "drafts" that are to be signed and then supposed to be revealing them publicly the day they're meant to go into effect - um, that's not a draft) has been the motivation I need to try other tabletop games.
I was thinking about looking into the starfinder stuff as well. I dont know much about it at all but seems like it could be a concept im interested in
I canceled yesterday. My subscription runs out in August, as I paid yearly, but I'm going to aim to have my campaign finished by then and will be reading through the Starfinder book I picked up last night.
It's been a fun near-five years, but their blatant lying and gaslighting over this whole situation (sending out "drafts" that are to be signed and then supposed to be revealing them publicly the day they're meant to go into effect - um, that's not a draft) has been the motivation I need to try other tabletop games.
I was thinking about looking into the starfinder stuff as well. I dont know much about it at all but seems like it could be a concept im interested in
It's 500 pages. It's daunting, but the amount of possibilities from just one book seem incredible. My only hangup is that the books seem to be kind of expensive, but hey - I just freed up some money with a subscription decision I made yesterday.
WOTC didn't have to write OGL 1.0a. The law didn't require that they release the SRD. They weren't required to release the SRD for 5e. They deserve more credit than they are getting. Yes, OGL 1.1 was a huge step in the wrong direction. They've admitted to the misstep and are saying they will present something more acceptable to the community. Now the community should do their part of waiting to see what they come back with. If you want to try other games, good on you! I have a bookshelf loaded with other games. But I'm not going to throw away my 5e books or give up on One D&D because of this mistake. 4e was a mistake to many and we forgave them.
Something about this current era makes folks judge more harshly than is fair, view every action in the worst light and refuse forgiveness to the penitent.
Dude they litterally sent these contracts out with NDA's attached and a week for creators to sign or lose everything to DMCA without the publics knowledge. Then they got caught and decided to back pedal they never would have done so without being caught. They never intended to receive player feed back and they certainly never intended what we all read the first time as a draft. So not only did they try to take a huge chunk out of what makes this community great (content creators and 3rd parties on kick starter) they then blatantly lied about their intentions and basically tried to make is seem like our back lash was intended the whole time. DoN't WoRry tHey'Re GoNnA mAkE cHaNgEs even tho the leakers who just got huge credibility from this OGL actually getting delayed have said what they're doing is simply waiting and hoping we'll shut up and forget about it long enough for them to just roll out what they have now anyway. We need to make dnd beyond subs drop because it's the only metric they're looking at they don't care about us at all this is not comparable to the 4e being bad mistake this isnt a mistake at all they are pissed they got caught now they just want us to shut up. Keep playing dnd just cancel your dnd beyond sub until the new OGL is confirmed and fully out you can always resub. They're out of touch to the point that dnd beyond subs are what's making this decision.
Cancelled yesterday (but paid up for several months).
Mostly it's because of Roll20. I've put a lot of work into developing APIs and macros for my Roll20 game and the some of the wording in the OGL1.1 looks like they'll be coming after the charactermancer once they've finished dumbing down 5e to be easier to code into a VTT where they can sell token animations in loot crates. I don't want to invest any more time into building a game framework with a Sword of Damocles hanging above it when I could switch to a different system and just not have to deal with that.
And that's becoming my attitude toward all things WotC. Why invest in something that is owned by a company that is hell bent on destroying their own IP when there are more stable options available? The ORC looks like it's going to replace the OGL1.0 as the stable option for TTRPGs going forward. I don't care what WotC does with the OGL at this point. I'll re-up my sub when Wizards sign the ORC.
Is it a subsidy when the "Subsidised party" is creating content that actually draws more business to one's company? And is it a removal of subsidy when one would charge upward of 25% royalty on anything one sells containing content that was previously drawing the above business to one? Or simply gouging for more profit (When one's business already makes a profit)? And as to DNDBeyond: They may not have been beholden to the old OGL. But they sure as the Nine Hells will be beholden to the new one. Based on the language as interpreted by people smarter than me. There's already a FOMO aspect built into DnDBeyond (A small one; but it's there): Having to buy digital copies in order to take full advantage of their suite is somewhat FOMO. But IF the new OGL hits...well, it will be horrific. 'Nuff said.
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It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
Is it a subsidy when the "Subsidised party" is creating content that actually draws more business to one's company? And is it a removal of subsidy when one would charge upward of 25% royalty on anything one sells containing content that was previously drawing the above business to one? Or simply gouging for more profit (When one's business already makes a profit)? And as to DNDBeyond: They may not have been beholden to the old OGL. But they sure as the Nine Hells will be beholden to the new one. Based on the language as interpreted by people smarter than me. There's already a FOMO aspect built into DnDBeyond (A small one; but it's there): Having to buy digital copies in order to take full advantage of their suite is somewhat FOMO. But IF the new OGL hits...well, it will be horrific. 'Nuff said.
25% of gross revenue is definitely gouging, no argument here. And now it's 0%, so it's a moot point.
PF2 isn't drawing more business to D&D - quite the opposite in fact.
I'm running a game where my players are using the shared content I bought. Until the current campaign comes to a stopping point, I don't want to remove any options from their character creation.
Is it a subsidy when the "Subsidised party" is creating content that actually draws more business to one's company? And is it a removal of subsidy when one would charge upward of 25% royalty on anything one sells containing content that was previously drawing the above business to one? Or simply gouging for more profit (When one's business already makes a profit)? And as to DNDBeyond: They may not have been beholden to the old OGL. But they sure as the Nine Hells will be beholden to the new one. Based on the language as interpreted by people smarter than me. There's already a FOMO aspect built into DnDBeyond (A small one; but it's there): Having to buy digital copies in order to take full advantage of their suite is somewhat FOMO. But IF the new OGL hits...well, it will be horrific. 'Nuff said.
25% of gross revenue is definitely gouging, no argument here. And now it's 0%, so it's a moot point.
PF2 isn't drawing more business to D&D - quite the opposite in fact.
PF2 also isn't a product that requires the OGL.
Pathfinder 1, though, almost certainly kept a huge number of players in the hobby and DnD adjacent through 4th and into the creation of 5th - easily seen by the drop in players for PF1 when 5e came out. The value of that contribution will likely never be quantifiable, though it almost certainly provided a huge pool of initial players that helped 5e get going.
Canceled just before seeing they doubled down on crippling the community that carried their Brand.
The response was just a veiled way of saying "we're still going to do exactly what you don't want us to do, as soon as you shut up about it".
Adopting Open RPG Creative License (ORC) is about the only thing that would restore any faith in WotC for me, specially after the Magic the Gathering cash grab. This is a very clear look into the future of any WotC IPs... Cash grabs and a complete disconnect from the community.
Moving on to Pathfinder. Not only is the core rulebook easy to read, but the company cares. I will always support Foundry VTT and other 3rd parties. DND backstabbed and have lied in their statements. I find their response also rude. I love this game with all my heart, but sometimes it's just not meant to be. Can't wait to quest somewhere else.
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Already did may renew depending on their final version but signs don't look promising. Either way I'll milk their free options for all their worth they just don't get anymore cash from me unless they earn back trust.
DnDBeyond never relied on the OGL - if it did, it wouldn't be able to distribute any rules outside the SRD/Basic, and no setting material. Even before being bought out, they had a custom license.
The new OGL isn't about a monopoly - which wouldn't be possible in this industry anyway because you can't copyright game mechanics - it's about no longer subsidizing their competition.
This isn't one mistake though: The quality of books has been on a downward trend for a good while, Hasbro has gouged MTG Fans just recently with everything in the MTG 30 debacle in similar bad faith, Investor calls have highlighted the "Under monetized" nature of the product, they tried to strongarm 3rd party publishers into the ludicrously unfair OGL 1.1 which would limit future D&D content, they coward and took a week to make any sort of comment when this news came out, and their apology out right lies, calling their contract a draft.
As consumers we want better products and a better community, Hasbro has started a trend to harm both; money talks, it is perfectly reasonable to take my cash else where until this trend is reversed, and it takes longer to build good faith than to trash it. I am not throwing any of my books away, but there either needs to be an extreme show of good faith or at the very least, fair business and a long time before I put more money in their hands.
The parts I was most worried about seem to have been removed. One of my groups all use dnd beyond through me so I'll leave it going. Could still change depending on final OGL that hits, but as of now I'm keeping it.
I already canceled. I will wait and see what happens next—action, not promises. When the new OGL comes out, I'll see if I renew.
I'm also curious to know what's going on internally. They have done a lot of damage. I've been playing for 35 years. This is how you kill a brand fast.
They "removed" and tweaked some stuff but they left it open to re-insert it again at a future time when they lock down everyone. Read the wording carefully of the leaked 2.0 OGL. It's just as predatory but it is using clever wordplay to try to appear as something else.
That depends entirely on the actual content of their new OGL.
If they actually give up on trying to strongarm 3rd party creators, then I might.
The new OGL would have to:
- guarantee that 1.0a is irrevocable and that any content and SDR they've created for older editions will remain in effect, even for future content.
Basicly, that the first batch of content under the terms of the new OGL will be DnD One. So everything created under a 1.0a SDR will remain that way.
- remove any mention of getting a perpetual and irrevocable license to use 3rd party creations. Even if it really was just an oversight, the phrasing would allow them to do exactly that - steal 3rd party content. Even if they don't plan to use it that way, even having the option is an intolerable condition for any OGL.
- not have royalty clauses that would bankrupt any company. Seriously, a 20 - 25 % royalty is not sustainable. WotC or Hasbro themselves couldn't sustain that on their products.
- not be revocable at will. Creators need to have certainty of what the terms of the OGL are and will be. Having the ability to just change it at any time, with 30 days notice, is just too unreliable. If they want to change the terms of their OGL, they need to create a new OGL. And anything they or 3rd parties have created under the old OGL will remain in effect under the terms of the old OGL.
this is the approach I am taking as well. I'll still be playing D&D, but not through Beyond. I have a play group that plays 3.5 and we meet up about once a month, but as all my 5e stuff is through this site I probably wont be using it much in the future unless OGL 1.0a is left intact.
I canceled yesterday. My subscription runs out in August, as I paid yearly, but I'm going to aim to have my campaign finished by then and will be reading through the Starfinder book I picked up last night.
It's been a fun near-five years, but their blatant lying and gaslighting over this whole situation (sending out "drafts" that are to be signed and then supposed to be revealing them publicly the day they're meant to go into effect - um, that's not a draft) has been the motivation I need to try other tabletop games.
I was thinking about looking into the starfinder stuff as well. I dont know much about it at all but seems like it could be a concept im interested in
It's 500 pages. It's daunting, but the amount of possibilities from just one book seem incredible. My only hangup is that the books seem to be kind of expensive, but hey - I just freed up some money with a subscription decision I made yesterday.
Dude they litterally sent these contracts out with NDA's attached and a week for creators to sign or lose everything to DMCA without the publics knowledge. Then they got caught and decided to back pedal they never would have done so without being caught. They never intended to receive player feed back and they certainly never intended what we all read the first time as a draft. So not only did they try to take a huge chunk out of what makes this community great (content creators and 3rd parties on kick starter) they then blatantly lied about their intentions and basically tried to make is seem like our back lash was intended the whole time. DoN't WoRry tHey'Re GoNnA mAkE cHaNgEs even tho the leakers who just got huge credibility from this OGL actually getting delayed have said what they're doing is simply waiting and hoping we'll shut up and forget about it long enough for them to just roll out what they have now anyway. We need to make dnd beyond subs drop because it's the only metric they're looking at they don't care about us at all this is not comparable to the 4e being bad mistake this isnt a mistake at all they are pissed they got caught now they just want us to shut up. Keep playing dnd just cancel your dnd beyond sub until the new OGL is confirmed and fully out you can always resub. They're out of touch to the point that dnd beyond subs are what's making this decision.
Cancelled yesterday (but paid up for several months).
Mostly it's because of Roll20. I've put a lot of work into developing APIs and macros for my Roll20 game and the some of the wording in the OGL1.1 looks like they'll be coming after the charactermancer once they've finished dumbing down 5e to be easier to code into a VTT where they can sell token animations in loot crates. I don't want to invest any more time into building a game framework with a Sword of Damocles hanging above it when I could switch to a different system and just not have to deal with that.
And that's becoming my attitude toward all things WotC. Why invest in something that is owned by a company that is hell bent on destroying their own IP when there are more stable options available? The ORC looks like it's going to replace the OGL1.0 as the stable option for TTRPGs going forward. I don't care what WotC does with the OGL at this point. I'll re-up my sub when Wizards sign the ORC.
Is it a subsidy when the "Subsidised party" is creating content that actually draws more business to one's company?
And is it a removal of subsidy when one would charge upward of 25% royalty on anything one sells containing content that was previously drawing the above business to one? Or simply gouging for more profit (When one's business already makes a profit)?
And as to DNDBeyond: They may not have been beholden to the old OGL. But they sure as the Nine Hells will be beholden to the new one. Based on the language as interpreted by people smarter than me.
There's already a FOMO aspect built into DnDBeyond (A small one; but it's there): Having to buy digital copies in order to take full advantage of their suite is somewhat FOMO.
But IF the new OGL hits...well, it will be horrific.
'Nuff said.
It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
25% of gross revenue is definitely gouging, no argument here. And now it's 0%, so it's a moot point.
PF2 isn't drawing more business to D&D - quite the opposite in fact.
I'm running a game where my players are using the shared content I bought. Until the current campaign comes to a stopping point, I don't want to remove any options from their character creation.
PF2 also isn't a product that requires the OGL.
Pathfinder 1, though, almost certainly kept a huge number of players in the hobby and DnD adjacent through 4th and into the creation of 5th - easily seen by the drop in players for PF1 when 5e came out. The value of that contribution will likely never be quantifiable, though it almost certainly provided a huge pool of initial players that helped 5e get going.
Canceled just before seeing they doubled down on crippling the community that carried their Brand.
The response was just a veiled way of saying "we're still going to do exactly what you don't want us to do, as soon as you shut up about it".
Adopting Open RPG Creative License (ORC) is about the only thing that would restore any faith in WotC for me, specially after the Magic the Gathering cash grab. This is a very clear look into the future of any WotC IPs... Cash grabs and a complete disconnect from the community.
Moving on to Pathfinder. Not only is the core rulebook easy to read, but the company cares. I will always support Foundry VTT and other 3rd parties. DND backstabbed and have lied in their statements. I find their response also rude. I love this game with all my heart, but sometimes it's just not meant to be. Can't wait to quest somewhere else.