A ttrpg playing lawyer with a proven record of astute observation on cases (Runkle of the Bailey in his other guise) calls WotC's reference to "draft" a lie (@3m14s).
It's not complicated. They're putting out a new license. To some degree they were hoping to capitalize on this new license to increase their revenues, but the community backlash has been strong enough that they've backtracked that idea. They've publicly drawn a few lines in response to the recent furor that look like they'll support open production of the kind of 3rd party content everyone was worried they were coming after; and while that's not legally binding in and of itself going back on their word that publicly would not do them any favors. To a certain point the survey is probably bread and circuses in response to the aforementioned backlash, and I'm sure they're not so blameless as they present in the articles, but as long as the new license doesn't create any significant burdens for people to keep producing the usual 3rd party content, I rather doubt we're looking at the kind of end times some people have been making this out to be.
TLDR: Yes, the old OGL is probably coming to a close for future products. No, most likely that is not a portent of the end of the world as the corpo's come for your art and your soul. If you really don't like it, you can walk away from D&D and see how the new ORC license that's being worked on shakes out.
I would just add Hasbro should add some language to ensure that there is no way to revoke the OGL Whatever-Version-Number in the future only allowing for new versions to replace it (which the other 'poorly drafted' OGL did). Aside from the license-back provisions, the registration of products, and questions on how 'bigoted' might be interperted by a company that produced this, one big complaint from those 'greedy' 3PPs was that Hasbro could alter the new OGL with only 30 days notice.
As you said, my guess is once this dust settles and One DND is back on track we'll see something similar to the GSL or the DM's Guild license for it and leave 3PPs behind permanently for it. 2023 is not 2000 and the strategy for the Hasbro and WOTC execs is different than it was 20+ years ago. For perspective, Wizards in its entirety was purchased for ~$420 million adjusted for inflation in 1999 and Hasbro made $5 billion in revenue alone in 2021 (the numbers for 2022 are a little sketchy but the seem to be slightly higher if anything). They needed open gaming in 2000 they don't need it in 2023 as they look to adopt a far more aggressive view of IP that leaves 3PP to look elsewhere. They don't need to build a wide community like they did in 2000, they're perfectly happy with a less vibrant (and smaller) community that will cough up $ for every microtransaction they can find in their new walled garden ecosystem. You don't have to be a 'rabid hyena' to see the signs of it already. I can only hope they don't totally screw 3PPs on their way out with 5e.
Do I like it? No. Do I think it's good business practices? Only if I were the kind of person who pays a lawyer $800 an hour to draft an angry letter to execs about lagging quarterly gains (which I'm not). Does it frustrate the hell out of me considering what I've seen this kind of mentality do to video games, which is where many of the current Hasbro execs come from, in the past ~18 years? Yes. I guess that's where we are today: we have to be thankful that when the short sighted control freak mega corporations make terrible decisions they hurt as few people as possible before they ruin something we enjoyed for a long time.
If WotC attempt to revoke the OGL (in whatever legally questionable way they may try), they would be attempting to go back on their word in relation to a "perpetual" license. It's not a good look.
How is it that I literally said the indications are that they’re not going to clamp down on 3rd party content, partially because they don’t actually have much of a leg to stand on, and people quote me like I’m saying a clampdown is a foregone conclusion?
I dont think its just a "WoTC" thing we have to consider... its a Hasbro thing to consider too. As an 18 year player and thousands of dollars into D&D, additionally purchasing all content in DDB, I do think WoTC realized "we really fk'd this up and were killing our culture/brand" HOWEVER Hasbro, unfortunately the owner, can push and force their hand any time they want and punish D&D for not following
To regain my trust and see that WoTC does stand by "our culture" (because the players/DM's are really what makes the game), I would want them to leave Hasbro, ive felt a dark fog floating over the realm since then- but i know they financially dug themselves into a hole that they cant buy themselves out of
My groups have already started to find new TTRPG's to play
I dont think its just a "WoTC" thing we have to consider... its a Hasbro thing to consider too. As an 18 year player and thousands of dollars into D&D, additionally purchasing all content in DDB, I do think WoTC realized "we really fk'd this up and were killing our culture/brand" HOWEVER Hasbro, unfortunately the owner, can push and force their hand any time they want and punish D&D for not following
To regain my trust and see that WoTC does stand by "our culture" (because the players/DM's are really what makes the game), I would want them to leave Hasbro, ive felt a dark fog floating over the realm since then- but i know they financially dug themselves into a hole that they cant buy themselves out of
My groups have already started to find new TTRPG's to play
They can't just leave Hasbro, they would have to 1) buy themselves out (unlikely, or they wouldn't be owned by another entity in the first place), or 2) find another buyer, and even then, Hasbro would have to consent to a sale (unlikely given they represent something like 70% of Hasbro's profits). WotC actually has no say in whether they stay or go.
I know they cant cause they already bought into the WOKE Machine and they dont have Musk Money
While I disagree with some of the recent design changes, tweaking the language to be respectful of others and avoid conveying negative messages on race/culture/etc is not one of them.
When the 'new' OGL 'draft' pops up for 'discussion', it will just be a distraction.
Corporate strategy doesn't change on a dime, nor do the beliefs and convinctions of a leadership / leader(s) change that suddenly. You can tell that third party organizations know this all too well, as they are all still moving away after having been shown the real intent, the real course that WotC is plotting. They aren't waiting to see a move, they aren't holding out for a shift in tone or intent.
And not just 3rd party, content creators as well, and much of the communities I am part of have started preparations to move. There is no faith, no trust, and this is just the final straw. There is almost no path that will end well for WotC.
The easiest one is to just step back, withdraw, and accept that you failed.
In point of fact corporate strategy does respond to market forces, such as the majority of their consumers coming out in opposition of a new or pending measure. That doesn’t mean they will have immediately and completely abandoned whatever they were aiming for, but I’d say we do have an opening to influence the direction of the next OGL. And yes, there is going to be a new one and that is not a bad thing so long as we ensure protections for creators’ property are included. The original draft is very vague and abstract; they’ve already backed down on royalties, disclosures, and the possibility of claiming ownership. So long as we keep them on those points, this should just blow over. And if they don’t, we can walk and start using ORC once it’s up. We actually seem to have a path to a pretty solid win so long as the “no mercy, no compromises” bloc doesn’t snatch defeat from the jaws of victory for us.
Well, the new OGL is a non-starter for me. 6e is a dead edition, maybe 7th edition will bring me back in a couple of years. Plenty of other and better games around.
I definitely don't trust WotC to determine what is hateful conduct or content, because it means Twitter or Mastadon deciding what is or isn't hateful rather than actual grown ups.
Anyone that read this ogl should know that it is actual garbage. Way too many sneaky and underhanded things that like wizards screw you in the future. The answer is simple. Add irrevocable to the ogl1.0 and gg.
just please get someone who knows what the community wants, please do your job , i see all the main players at wizards are keeping the heads and big salaries under the parapet!
I know they cant cause they already bought into the WOKE Machine and they dont have Musk Money
While I disagree with some of the recent design changes, tweaking the language to be respectful of others and avoid conveying negative messages on race/culture/etc is not one of them.
Wizards' showing their colors in a "culture war" that only divides communities cannot be good for a hobby that is all about community, and it isn't as if all that rhetoric about orcs, for example, didn't itself face criticism and the same kind of accusations of negative messaging on race or culture.
Ah, the tolerance paradox. We are allowed to be intolerant of intolerance...as is WotC.
Clauses against hate or harassment are excellent. There simply needs to be a third party to adjudicate what meets the criteria. That third party should not be the legal system--especially considering that the law and courts vary by country.
Wizards should hand stewardship of hate and harassment decisions, or at least adjudication of appeals, to a not-for-profit dedicated to inclusion in gaming. Some organization that is in dialogue with a variety of communities and able to make informed decisions on what causes harm, so that we're subjected neither to the arbitrary whims of a corporation nor to whatever is trending on Twitter.
I am not sure what this organization would be, but I suspect that something like it already exists.
Clauses against hate or harassment are excellent. There simply needs to be a third party to adjudicate what meets the criteria. That third party should not be the legal system--especially considering that the law and courts vary by country.
Wizards should hand stewardship of hate and harassment decisions, or at least adjudication of appeals, to a not-for-profit dedicated to inclusion in gaming. Some organization that is in dialogue with a variety of communities and able to make informed decisions on what causes harm, so that we're subjected neither to the arbitrary whims of a corporation nor to whatever is trending on Twitter.
I am not sure what this organization would be, but I suspect that something like it already exists.
This is exactly my thoughts on policing hateful and discriminatory content. Submit the arbitration and authority to do so to a third party non profit that specialises in identifying and fighting back against such content, such as the Southern Poverty Law Centre.
Well at least everyone is focused on the license being needed to protect them from discriminatory hurtful hateful speech, instead of the real nuts and bolts of the license. Maybe some other things are a bit more impactful such as that this 1.2 license is still revocable. Yay!!!! The word irrevocable is in the OGL!!! Too bad they redefined it to mean something else. This OGL is still a crap sandwich.
If Wizards wants the idea of tolerance in 6(f) without the backlash, there is a simple compromise: anything they deem unacceptable must carry a warning/disclaimer on the product. Either as text "wizards of the Coast is not affiliated with this product and considers it harmful" or a NoDnD badge (1/8th size of cover, front and back).
With that, they can publically reject content they don't like without becoming the final say.
If customers proceed to buy the product, it means WotC was wrong. If they don't then they were right.
Wth that change a good portion of the 1.2 is fixed with just copyright and revokablilty remaining - both are easier to fix when Wizards is willing to listen.
*Edit* note 1.0a must not be deauthorized. I am strictly saying a new OGL(with a new SRD) could use this to meet their goals.
Well at least everyone is focused on the license being needed to protect them from discriminatory hurtful hateful speech, instead of the real nuts and bolts of the license. Maybe some other things are a bit more impactful such as that this 1.2 license is still revocable. Yay!!!! The word irrevocable is in the OGL!!! Too bad they redefined it to mean something else. This OGL is still a crap sandwich.
I'm in complete agreement with you that the terms around revocation and termination are among the biggest issues that the community must unify to revise.
Section 9d must change so that if one part of the license is deemed unenforceable, Wizards can't throw the whole thing out. The OGL also needs some guarantee of longevity, otherwise even if we get terms for everything that we like, WotC could just cancel the whole thing and issue something like 1.1 again (or nothing at all!)
This doesn't mean that the clause for hate and harassment isn't worth discussing. It's one of the terms for revocation, and a warranted one in today's world, so we want it written so that it works as advertised and isn't open to abuse.
Clauses against hate or harassment are excellent. There simply needs to be a third party to adjudicate what meets the criteria. That third party should not be the legal system--especially considering that the law and courts vary by country.
No matter who you pick to determine what constitute hate and harassment, you run the risk of that body becoming compromised and no longer doing what you were expecting them to do
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
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A ttrpg playing lawyer with a proven record of astute observation on cases (Runkle of the Bailey in his other guise) calls WotC's reference to "draft" a lie (@3m14s).
I would just add Hasbro should add some language to ensure that there is no way to revoke the OGL Whatever-Version-Number in the future only allowing for new versions to replace it (which the other 'poorly drafted' OGL did). Aside from the license-back provisions, the registration of products, and questions on how 'bigoted' might be interperted by a company that produced this, one big complaint from those 'greedy' 3PPs was that Hasbro could alter the new OGL with only 30 days notice.
As you said, my guess is once this dust settles and One DND is back on track we'll see something similar to the GSL or the DM's Guild license for it and leave 3PPs behind permanently for it. 2023 is not 2000 and the strategy for the Hasbro and WOTC execs is different than it was 20+ years ago. For perspective, Wizards in its entirety was purchased for ~$420 million adjusted for inflation in 1999 and Hasbro made $5 billion in revenue alone in 2021 (the numbers for 2022 are a little sketchy but the seem to be slightly higher if anything). They needed open gaming in 2000 they don't need it in 2023 as they look to adopt a far more aggressive view of IP that leaves 3PP to look elsewhere. They don't need to build a wide community like they did in 2000, they're perfectly happy with a less vibrant (and smaller) community that will cough up $ for every microtransaction they can find in their new walled garden ecosystem. You don't have to be a 'rabid hyena' to see the signs of it already. I can only hope they don't totally screw 3PPs on their way out with 5e.
Do I like it? No. Do I think it's good business practices? Only if I were the kind of person who pays a lawyer $800 an hour to draft an angry letter to execs about lagging quarterly gains (which I'm not). Does it frustrate the hell out of me considering what I've seen this kind of mentality do to video games, which is where many of the current Hasbro execs come from, in the past ~18 years? Yes. I guess that's where we are today: we have to be thankful that when the short sighted control freak mega corporations make terrible decisions they hurt as few people as possible before they ruin something we enjoyed for a long time.
If WotC attempt to revoke the OGL (in whatever legally questionable way they may try), they would be attempting to go back on their word in relation to a "perpetual" license. It's not a good look.
How is it that I literally said the indications are that they’re not going to clamp down on 3rd party content, partially because they don’t actually have much of a leg to stand on, and people quote me like I’m saying a clampdown is a foregone conclusion?
I dont think its just a "WoTC" thing we have to consider... its a Hasbro thing to consider too. As an 18 year player and thousands of dollars into D&D, additionally purchasing all content in DDB, I do think WoTC realized "we really fk'd this up and were killing our culture/brand" HOWEVER Hasbro, unfortunately the owner, can push and force their hand any time they want and punish D&D for not following
To regain my trust and see that WoTC does stand by "our culture" (because the players/DM's are really what makes the game), I would want them to leave Hasbro, ive felt a dark fog floating over the realm since then- but i know they financially dug themselves into a hole that they cant buy themselves out of
My groups have already started to find new TTRPG's to play
They can't just leave Hasbro, they would have to 1) buy themselves out (unlikely, or they wouldn't be owned by another entity in the first place), or 2) find another buyer, and even then, Hasbro would have to consent to a sale (unlikely given they represent something like 70% of Hasbro's profits). WotC actually has no say in whether they stay or go.
While I disagree with some of the recent design changes, tweaking the language to be respectful of others and avoid conveying negative messages on race/culture/etc is not one of them.
When the 'new' OGL 'draft' pops up for 'discussion', it will just be a distraction.
Corporate strategy doesn't change on a dime, nor do the beliefs and convinctions of a leadership / leader(s) change that suddenly. You can tell that third party organizations know this all too well, as they are all still moving away after having been shown the real intent, the real course that WotC is plotting. They aren't waiting to see a move, they aren't holding out for a shift in tone or intent.
And not just 3rd party, content creators as well, and much of the communities I am part of have started preparations to move. There is no faith, no trust, and this is just the final straw.
There is almost no path that will end well for WotC.
The easiest one is to just step back, withdraw, and accept that you failed.
In point of fact corporate strategy does respond to market forces, such as the majority of their consumers coming out in opposition of a new or pending measure. That doesn’t mean they will have immediately and completely abandoned whatever they were aiming for, but I’d say we do have an opening to influence the direction of the next OGL. And yes, there is going to be a new one and that is not a bad thing so long as we ensure protections for creators’ property are included. The original draft is very vague and abstract; they’ve already backed down on royalties, disclosures, and the possibility of claiming ownership. So long as we keep them on those points, this should just blow over. And if they don’t, we can walk and start using ORC once it’s up. We actually seem to have a path to a pretty solid win so long as the “no mercy, no compromises” bloc doesn’t snatch defeat from the jaws of victory for us.
Well, the new OGL is a non-starter for me. 6e is a dead edition, maybe 7th edition will bring me back in a couple of years. Plenty of other and better games around.
I definitely don't trust WotC to determine what is hateful conduct or content, because it means Twitter or Mastadon deciding what is or isn't hateful rather than actual grown ups.
Fantasy Grounds Ultimate Licence Holder
The beginning of their video is the best statement of what we as players and creators represent:
It's not the arrow with my name on it that worries me. It's the arrow that says, "To whom it may concern".
Anyone that read this ogl should know that it is actual garbage. Way too many sneaky and underhanded things that like wizards screw you in the future. The answer is simple. Add irrevocable to the ogl1.0 and gg.
just please get someone who knows what the community wants, please do your job , i see all the main players at wizards are keeping the heads and big salaries under the parapet!
Ah, the tolerance paradox. We are allowed to be intolerant of intolerance...as is WotC.
Clauses against hate or harassment are excellent. There simply needs to be a third party to adjudicate what meets the criteria. That third party should not be the legal system--especially considering that the law and courts vary by country.
Wizards should hand stewardship of hate and harassment decisions, or at least adjudication of appeals, to a not-for-profit dedicated to inclusion in gaming. Some organization that is in dialogue with a variety of communities and able to make informed decisions on what causes harm, so that we're subjected neither to the arbitrary whims of a corporation nor to whatever is trending on Twitter.
I am not sure what this organization would be, but I suspect that something like it already exists.
This is exactly my thoughts on policing hateful and discriminatory content. Submit the arbitration and authority to do so to a third party non profit that specialises in identifying and fighting back against such content, such as the Southern Poverty Law Centre.
Well at least everyone is focused on the license being needed to protect them from discriminatory hurtful hateful speech, instead of the real nuts and bolts of the license. Maybe some other things are a bit more impactful such as that this 1.2 license is still revocable. Yay!!!! The word irrevocable is in the OGL!!! Too bad they redefined it to mean something else. This OGL is still a crap sandwich.
If Wizards wants the idea of tolerance in 6(f) without the backlash, there is a simple compromise: anything they deem unacceptable must carry a warning/disclaimer on the product. Either as text "wizards of the Coast is not affiliated with this product and considers it harmful" or a NoDnD badge (1/8th size of cover, front and back).
With that, they can publically reject content they don't like without becoming the final say.
If customers proceed to buy the product, it means WotC was wrong. If they don't then they were right.
Wth that change a good portion of the 1.2 is fixed with just copyright and revokablilty remaining - both are easier to fix when Wizards is willing to listen.
*Edit* note 1.0a must not be deauthorized. I am strictly saying a new OGL(with a new SRD) could use this to meet their goals.
I'm in complete agreement with you that the terms around revocation and termination are among the biggest issues that the community must unify to revise.
Section 9d must change so that if one part of the license is deemed unenforceable, Wizards can't throw the whole thing out. The OGL also needs some guarantee of longevity, otherwise even if we get terms for everything that we like, WotC could just cancel the whole thing and issue something like 1.1 again (or nothing at all!)
This doesn't mean that the clause for hate and harassment isn't worth discussing. It's one of the terms for revocation, and a warranted one in today's world, so we want it written so that it works as advertised and isn't open to abuse.
No matter who you pick to determine what constitute hate and harassment, you run the risk of that body becoming compromised and no longer doing what you were expecting them to do
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)