For what it's worth. IIRC, Hasbro acquired WOTC around start of 4th and pretty much had WOTC want to abandon (full-on abandon) 3.5/Paizo . The official forums were still around back then, but it was constant pointed out problems with 4th (again this is going off of memory and subject to error), there was threads GALORE about 3.5 and the main URL still worked on the 3.5e archives. You didn't even need to go to 'archive.xyz' instead 'www.wyz'. Forums were shutdown to help sell 4th which didn't help much. They hid behind the shield of 'you can go to other sites'. This was Youtube and twitter weren't as big. Heck, Myspace was still a thing.
Is this forum going to get shutdown to silence the community as was the case with the original, official forum?
Would not be surprising. A few things to consider...
Typically running a forum allows for...
1. Security Risks. Usually forums have some kind of SSL security risk that allows a site to potentially get hacked from the ability to put comments/code in the site.
2. Moderators. The site will require (at this size) several people to manage the forums - which means climbing through endless threads to see if anyone is violating anything. After awhile, Moderators, who sometimes are just people willing to help out a forum, will burn out.
3. Forums are just one more thing to manage. So many sites actually do not have forums.
I would agree - it would suck to lose these forums. I love having one site to go to - to ask people for advice or help others seeking advice. My post count isn't that high because of OGL stuff. I've been posting in these forums for a long time now. Because I've enjoyed the community here. So I would be sad to see these forums go.
But after this OGL stuff, I would not be too surprised if they did fold this up as "too much time and effort now."
One thing that is notable is that neither Wizards of the Coast or D&D has a forum. It used to have one and was shutdown after the outrage prompted by 4th edition which essentially resulted in the forums being a battle ground for D&D's identity back then.
Now fast forward a few years and DnDBeyond has become the new, official D&D forum and as was the case during the 4e days, its become a battle ground over D&D's identity.
Is this forum going to get shutdown to silence the community as was the case with the original, official forum?
They'll try to weather through this mess and shut it down in April or May would be my guess.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
For what it's worth. IIRC, Hasbro acquired WOTC around start of 4th and pretty much had WOTC want to abandon (full-on abandon) 3.5/Paizo . The official forums were still around back then, but it was constant pointed out problems with 4th (again this is going off of memory and subject to error), there was threads GALORE about 3.5 and the main URL still worked on the 3.5e archives. You didn't even need to go to 'archive.xyz' instead 'www.wyz'. Forums were shutdown to help sell 4th which didn't help much. They hid behind the shield of 'you can go to other sites'. This was Youtube and twitter weren't as big. Heck, Myspace was still a thing.
Wizards was purchased by Hasbro in September of 1999. This was before 3rd edition and OGL 1.0a were released.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
One thing that is notable is that neither Wizards of the Coast or D&D has a forum. It used to have one and was shutdown after the outrage prompted by 4th edition which essentially resulted in the forums being a battle ground for D&D's identity back then.
Now fast forward a few years and DnDBeyond has become the new, official D&D forum and as was the case during the 4e days, its become a battle ground over D&D's identity.
Is this forum going to get shutdown to silence the community as was the case with the original, official forum?
If DnDShorts is correct, and his insider info is right, than the plan was always to close down DnDB and all other similar sites. Since I tend to believe his report, and it seems likely to be true with everything that has come out. My Magic 8 ball says "Very Likely"
This would be the same DnDShorts whose last piece of “insider information” turned out to be a months-old hoax? Real reliable source you have there.
Hasbro spent $143 million acquiring D&D Beyond. They have spent their last few quarterly reports to investors talking about what a great source of long-term revenue it would be. If your position is that Hasbro wants to throw away one of their biggest recent corporate expenditures and one of the major things they have been hyping to keep investor confidence (and therefore their stock prices) up, you’ll need a better source than someone who, just this week, exposed themselves as a hack.
One thing that is notable is that neither Wizards of the Coast or D&D has a forum. It used to have one and was shutdown after the outrage prompted by 4th edition which essentially resulted in the forums being a battle ground for D&D's identity back then.
Now fast forward a few years and DnDBeyond has become the new, official D&D forum and as was the case during the 4e days, its become a battle ground over D&D's identity.
Is this forum going to get shutdown to silence the community as was the case with the original, official forum?
If DnDShorts is correct, and his insider info is right, than the plan was always to close down DnDB and all other similar sites. Since I tend to believe his report, and it seems likely to be true with everything that has come out. My Magic 8 ball says "Very Likely"
That makes zero sense. They own DnDB and if the plan is to close it, people dropping subscriptions is exactly what they want.
Also the tweet about WotC executives not liking the player base was not any actual direct quote saying that, but an alleged DDB employee saying anonymously that that was their impression.
If DnDShorts is correct, and his insider info is right, than the plan was always to close down DnDB and all other similar sites. Since I tend to believe his report, and it seems likely to be true with everything that has come out. My Magic 8 ball says "Very Likely"
Wasn't D&D Shorts the one who spread false information about D&D Beyond raising their subscription? And wasn't he the one who invented ridiculous hypothetical scenarios to explain how Wizards of the Coast will revoke your Open Game License permissions for jaywalking?
Yeah, this guy seems really trustworthy and not at all misleading. I'm sure all the tons of anonymous sources he has in Wizards are way more trustworthy than actual verified insiders.
No offense, but this guy has thrown his credibility out the window in the past couple of weeks. Please forgive me for my sarcasm. I'm just genuinely appalled that anyone would believe unverified rumors because D&D Shorts says they might be true.
Going to reply once to these, all at once, because I can't be bothered to deal with these kinds of people. Did DnDShorts mess up, yes, his sources although have been independently verified. And his most recent video on the subject was written by his lawyers, based on verified information. So weather you listen or not it's up to you, he is not the only source on this, but his video is the most refined, and easy to understand.
Why would a company who wants to tear down a competitor buy it out? Easy customer base. DnDB is a relatively simple site with a lot of easy to make features, and has no real value besides a retail outlet and place to sort and manage a game. It's not that unique, and it's not all that special. (The founder of DnDB is making a new one with all the third party games and not D&D btw.) So what is special about DnDB, it's userbase. How many millions of people use this site, it became popular 1st because at the time of its creation it was the best site up. They did a lot of work to keep it that way as well. Then they worked with Critical Role causing their numbers to swell greatly. Chris Cocks wants to destroy DnDB and other competitors to their VTT. What WotC was lacking was a large userbase of D&D Customers. DnDB has that, frankly I would hazard at least half of all D&D players in the English Speaking World have at least a free account here. That userbase is a resource worth the $146million purchase price. DnDB can also be used as the web front end of the VTT as they build it. Since it's a simple Database at it's heart, DnDB is a useful tool for them. But the Tool itself wasn't worth $146million .
The reason they are in panic mode over #DnDBegone is the userbase is the valuable asset.
BTW, I still think the 4tth Edition site like DnDB was better in many ways. As you could download the books and material from the site for easy use on tabletop. A Feature DnDB only has for Character Sheets, and that only works half the time.
So, let me get this straight. Despite the fact they are not a company reliant on any sort of direct marketing (other than the normal directed ads sort of thing on various 3rd party sites), you are arguing that they spent millions of dollars to acquire a company just for its customer list, with a planned intent of destroying the very popular service they just bought, which would predictably alienate all those in those 'super valuable' customer lists they just bought.
Please explain the business model in which that makes any sense whatsoever.
You are spending a half a billion to develop a Unity 3D VTT which plays like a Videogame so you can sell micro transaction like a Video Game. Your company although popular already has 2 Failed MMOs made by 3rd parties, a small but functioning 3rd party content creator store, and a small retail outlet store to purchase the latest physical books. Directly. Your money mostly comes from royalties from 3rd party retail sellers, and the largest retail outlet is a semi-VTT that is focused only on your game and a VTT with content from all the other games.
You want to remove all your competitors before you go into beta testing, and before you start advertising the VTT. What is the best options?
1: Purchase the D&D focused Semi-VTT, gain the largest User base possible, redesign your VTT to use that data base.
2: Make new licensing to force competitors out of business.
3: Once the VTT goes live, sift the user base to use only the VTT. Use the Storefront of the now gutted DnDB as the web front of the VTT.
So, let me get this straight. Despite the fact they are not a company reliant on any sort of direct marketing (other than the normal directed ads sort of thing on various 3rd party sites), you are arguing that they spent millions of dollars to acquire a company just for its customer list, with a planned intent of destroying the very popular service they just bought, which would predictably alienate all those in those 'super valuable' customer lists they just bought.
Please explain the business model in which that makes any sense whatsoever.
You are spending a half a billion to develop a Unity 3D VTT which plays like a Videogame so you can sell micro transaction like a Video Game. Your company although popular already has 2 Failed MMOs made by 3rd parties, a small but functioning 3rd party content creator store, and a small retail outlet store to purchase the latest physical books. Directly. Your money mostly comes from royalties from 3rd party retail sellers, and the largest retail outlet is a semi-VTT that is focused only on your game and a VTT with content from all the other games.
You want to remove all your competitors before you go into beta testing, and before you start advertising the VTT. What is the best options?
1: Purchase the D&D focused Semi-VTT, gain the largest User base possible, redesign your VTT to use that data base.
2: Make new licensing to force competitors out of business.
3: Once the VTT goes live, sift the user base to use only the VTT. Use the Storefront of the now gutted DnDB as the web front of the VTT.
DDB isn't any 'Semi-VTT' though. Customer bases cannot simply be 'shifted' like this is some sort of board game.
And regardless, you have not explained how shutting DDB does anything other than hinder any such shift.
If anything they would make their VTT DDB compatible to build on the existing popularity.
So, let me get this straight. Despite the fact they are not a company reliant on any sort of direct marketing (other than the normal directed ads sort of thing on various 3rd party sites), you are arguing that they spent millions of dollars to acquire a company just for its customer list, with a planned intent of destroying the very popular service they just bought, which would predictably alienate all those in those 'super valuable' customer lists they just bought.
Please explain the business model in which that makes any sense whatsoever.
You are spending a half a billion to develop a Unity 3D VTT which plays like a Videogame so you can sell micro transaction like a Video Game. Your company although popular already has 2 Failed MMOs made by 3rd parties, a small but functioning 3rd party content creator store, and a small retail outlet store to purchase the latest physical books. Directly. Your money mostly comes from royalties from 3rd party retail sellers, and the largest retail outlet is a semi-VTT that is focused only on your game and a VTT with content from all the other games.
You want to remove all your competitors before you go into beta testing, and before you start advertising the VTT. What is the best options?
1: Purchase the D&D focused Semi-VTT, gain the largest User base possible, redesign your VTT to use that data base.
2: Make new licensing to force competitors out of business.
3: Once the VTT goes live, sift the user base to use only the VTT. Use the Storefront of the now gutted DnDB as the web front of the VTT.
DDB isn't any 'Semi-VTT' though. Customer bases cannot simply be 'shifted' like this is some sort of board game.
And regardless, you have not explained how shutting DDB does anything other than hinder any such shift.
If anything they would make their VTT DDB compatible to build on the existing popularity.
Ummm:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizards_of_the_Coast
That's why I kept on saying if I remembered correctly and I am perfectly accepting to be wrong.
Would not be surprising. A few things to consider...
Typically running a forum allows for...
1. Security Risks. Usually forums have some kind of SSL security risk that allows a site to potentially get hacked from the ability to put comments/code in the site.
2. Moderators. The site will require (at this size) several people to manage the forums - which means climbing through endless threads to see if anyone is violating anything. After awhile, Moderators, who sometimes are just people willing to help out a forum, will burn out.
3. Forums are just one more thing to manage. So many sites actually do not have forums.
I would agree - it would suck to lose these forums. I love having one site to go to - to ask people for advice or help others seeking advice. My post count isn't that high because of OGL stuff. I've been posting in these forums for a long time now. Because I've enjoyed the community here. So I would be sad to see these forums go.
But after this OGL stuff, I would not be too surprised if they did fold this up as "too much time and effort now."
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They'll try to weather through this mess and shut it down in April or May would be my guess.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
Wizards was purchased by Hasbro in September of 1999. This was before 3rd edition and OGL 1.0a were released.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
Going to reply once to these, all at once, because I can't be bothered to deal with these kinds of people. Did DnDShorts mess up, yes, his sources although have been independently verified. And his most recent video on the subject was written by his lawyers, based on verified information. So weather you listen or not it's up to you, he is not the only source on this, but his video is the most refined, and easy to understand.
Why would a company who wants to tear down a competitor buy it out? Easy customer base. DnDB is a relatively simple site with a lot of easy to make features, and has no real value besides a retail outlet and place to sort and manage a game. It's not that unique, and it's not all that special. (The founder of DnDB is making a new one with all the third party games and not D&D btw.) So what is special about DnDB, it's userbase. How many millions of people use this site, it became popular 1st because at the time of its creation it was the best site up. They did a lot of work to keep it that way as well. Then they worked with Critical Role causing their numbers to swell greatly. Chris Cocks wants to destroy DnDB and other competitors to their VTT. What WotC was lacking was a large userbase of D&D Customers. DnDB has that, frankly I would hazard at least half of all D&D players in the English Speaking World have at least a free account here. That userbase is a resource worth the $146million purchase price. DnDB can also be used as the web front end of the VTT as they build it. Since it's a simple Database at it's heart, DnDB is a useful tool for them. But the Tool itself wasn't worth $146million .
The reason they are in panic mode over #DnDBegone is the userbase is the valuable asset.
BTW, I still think the 4tth Edition site like DnDB was better in many ways. As you could download the books and material from the site for easy use on tabletop. A Feature DnDB only has for Character Sheets, and that only works half the time.
You are spending a half a billion to develop a Unity 3D VTT which plays like a Videogame so you can sell micro transaction like a Video Game. Your company although popular already has 2 Failed MMOs made by 3rd parties, a small but functioning 3rd party content creator store, and a small retail outlet store to purchase the latest physical books. Directly. Your money mostly comes from royalties from 3rd party retail sellers, and the largest retail outlet is a semi-VTT that is focused only on your game and a VTT with content from all the other games.
You want to remove all your competitors before you go into beta testing, and before you start advertising the VTT. What is the best options?
1: Purchase the D&D focused Semi-VTT, gain the largest User base possible, redesign your VTT to use that data base.
2: Make new licensing to force competitors out of business.
3: Once the VTT goes live, sift the user base to use only the VTT. Use the Storefront of the now gutted DnDB as the web front of the VTT.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/my-encounters
https://www.dndbeyond.com/my-dice
https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters
Yes, those are all features they could integrate with a VTT.
Dang if they do this the whole DDB community won’t be a community but a rebellion.