I understand the OGL is a touchy subject, and will try to keep this post as neutral and objective as possible. Please, I implore you, keep the discussion here civil and remember there are human beings on the other side of your monitor.
Wizards has begun the OGL 1.2 survey, and it’s a step in the right direction. However, I don’t think it’s outrageous to say that trust between the TTRPG community and Wizards has been diminished by recent events. I don’t think I need to go into details, and everyone has their take on the matter. We could argue the matter, but it would accomplish nothing.
This begs the question whether the community can trust Wizards to accurately and faithfully report to the community the survey results? This is not a question of the veracity of individual employees or teams, but Wizards as a corporate entity.
Keep in mind, as a community we cannot trust the majority’s opinion matches those of the loudest voices. A completely accurate report could very well run counter to what a sizable portion of the community expects. Only the one tallying the results can ever know for certain. The fact that Wizards has lost so much community trust makes reporting on their own survey a tricky proposition. Who watches the watchmen?
That's a fair point, and fudging the results is likely a poor tactic for the longevity of the brand.
But I'm willing to bet there's a sizeable portion of the community that's far less aware of the details than any faction surrounding this debate it, regardless of how factual those details are. Half of the players I've talked to offline were aware of the situation, but only in the sense that the new OGL was unpopular and causing a ruckus. A survey sounds democratic, and the results can alter the optics of a debate for the general observer. For those who aren't staying abreast of the details, those tidy results could be convincing about what path is the most beneficial/convenient/fair.
The opposition to the OGL changes (general or specific) has been effective due to numbers. In theory, Wizards could reduce that leverage with the optics that the community is, on a whole, satisfied with a particular version of the OGL. I can't say for certain they would, but they certainly could try, and we as a community can't for certain say whether they did or not.
The survey is spammable, meaning anybody can give as many responses as they like. So the results are already completely meaningless.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
The survey is spammable, meaning anybody can give as many responses as they like. So the results are already completely meaningless.
This isn't true. Anyone who wants to complete the survey multiple times has to complete multiple google accounts. Even if someone spent every minute of their life doing that, there are still so many people that have a stake in this discussion and have feedback on it, and that would mean that the "spammed" responses don't actually drastically alter the results of the survey.
In other words, you are drastically overstating how "spammable" the survey is.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explainHERE.
The survey is spammable, meaning anybody can give as many responses as they like. So the results are already completely meaningless.
This isn't true. Anyone who wants to complete the survey multiple times has to complete multiple google accounts. Even if someone spent every minute of their life doing that, there are still so many people that have a stake in this discussion and have feedback on it, and that would mean that the "spammed" responses don't actually drastically alter the results of the survey.
In other words, you are drastically overstating how "spammable" the survey is.
You do not need a Google account. You do not need Google Chrome. I will not tell you how you can easily spam this survey, but yes, it can be done. It can be done with a bot and that bot can be programmed to put different entries in the response boxes as well to give a false differentiation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
You do not need a Google account. You do not need Google Chrome. I will not tell you how you can easily spam this survey, but yes, it can be done. It can be done with a bot and that bot can be programmed to put different entries in the response boxes as well to give a false differentiation.
I don't think this is fully true. It made me go into a new computer to complete the survey when I accidentally deleted the tab halfway through. I know other people who have had the same experience, so the survey certainly has some protections against people spamming things into it.
Also, saying "You can totally do this but I'm not gonna tell you how" really sounds like a cop-out and makes it feel kinda like you don't know what you're talking about, though it's possible that's not the case.
The results of the survey, i'm don't belive, they don't show the results of other surveys, but we don't need the data, we need the choices that WOTC will do with the survey
You do not need a Google account. You do not need Google Chrome. I will not tell you how you can easily spam this survey, but yes, it can be done. It can be done with a bot and that bot can be programmed to put different entries in the response boxes as well to give a false differentiation.
I don't think this is fully true. It made me go into a new computer to complete the survey when I accidentally deleted the tab halfway through. I know other people who have had the same experience, so the survey certainly has some protections against people spamming things into it.
Also, saying "You can totally do this but I'm not gonna tell you how" really sounds like a cop-out and makes it feel kinda like you don't know what you're talking about, though it's possible that's not the case.
It is spammable if you know what to do. The results are most likely already contaminated.
I understand the OGL is a touchy subject, and will try to keep this post as neutral and objective as possible. Please, I implore you, keep the discussion here civil and remember there are human beings on the other side of your monitor.
Wizards has begun the OGL 1.2 survey, and it’s a step in the right direction. However, I don’t think it’s outrageous to say that trust between the TTRPG community and Wizards has been diminished by recent events. I don’t think I need to go into details, and everyone has their take on the matter. We could argue the matter, but it would accomplish nothing.
This begs the question whether the community can trust Wizards to accurately and faithfully report to the community the survey results? This is not a question of the veracity of individual employees or teams, but Wizards as a corporate entity.
Keep in mind, as a community we cannot trust the majority’s opinion matches those of the loudest voices. A completely accurate report could very well run counter to what a sizable portion of the community expects. Only the one tallying the results can ever know for certain. The fact that Wizards has lost so much community trust makes reporting on their own survey a tricky proposition. Who watches the watchmen?
Even if the report is factually based, it will be presented with as much spin as it may effectively take.
It doesn't actually matter whether they report on it, what matters is whether they make changes based on feedback.
That's a fair point, and fudging the results is likely a poor tactic for the longevity of the brand.
But I'm willing to bet there's a sizeable portion of the community that's far less aware of the details than any faction surrounding this debate it, regardless of how factual those details are. Half of the players I've talked to offline were aware of the situation, but only in the sense that the new OGL was unpopular and causing a ruckus. A survey sounds democratic, and the results can alter the optics of a debate for the general observer. For those who aren't staying abreast of the details, those tidy results could be convincing about what path is the most beneficial/convenient/fair.
The opposition to the OGL changes (general or specific) has been effective due to numbers. In theory, Wizards could reduce that leverage with the optics that the community is, on a whole, satisfied with a particular version of the OGL. I can't say for certain they would, but they certainly could try, and we as a community can't for certain say whether they did or not.
The survey is spammable, meaning anybody can give as many responses as they like. So the results are already completely meaningless.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
If WOTC lies to our face about big things; why would we expect them to report accurately about anything else?
I'm not even convinced they actually look at these surveys much elss make results accessable.
This isn't true. Anyone who wants to complete the survey multiple times has to complete multiple google accounts. Even if someone spent every minute of their life doing that, there are still so many people that have a stake in this discussion and have feedback on it, and that would mean that the "spammed" responses don't actually drastically alter the results of the survey.
In other words, you are drastically overstating how "spammable" the survey is.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.You do not need a Google account. You do not need Google Chrome. I will not tell you how you can easily spam this survey, but yes, it can be done. It can be done with a bot and that bot can be programmed to put different entries in the response boxes as well to give a false differentiation.
The age of OGL is over. The Time of the ORC has come!
The moment that WotC declares OGL 1.0a "de-authorized", "revoked" or any such nonsense is the moment I release as much content as possible under OGL 1.0a and say, "Sue me WotC". OGL1.0a cannot be revoked. If thousands of us do it, the countersuit will be a class action suit.
I don't think this is fully true. It made me go into a new computer to complete the survey when I accidentally deleted the tab halfway through. I know other people who have had the same experience, so the survey certainly has some protections against people spamming things into it.
Also, saying "You can totally do this but I'm not gonna tell you how" really sounds like a cop-out and makes it feel kinda like you don't know what you're talking about, though it's possible that's not the case.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
He/him pronouns. Call me Bard. PROUD NERD!
Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
HERE.The results of the survey, i'm don't belive, they don't show the results of other surveys, but we don't need the data, we need the choices that WOTC will do with the survey
It is spammable if you know what to do. The results are most likely already contaminated.
They don't need a survey to know what we want. We've been telling them for weeks...