On narrow points: YES, I love when my players take a brief dip into warlock. It's not because of the mechanics; it's because of the story. If they have, say, a fiendish patron, and they have sold their soul for just a little taste of power, I'm going to take that and use it and present the character with some hard choices and temptations. Or if they went with the Great Old Ones, they will have bouts of struggling with madness and dreams of far realms... I shiver thinking of the possibilities.
Of course you're completely empowered as a DM to set the restrictions you want, but in the Forgotten Realms, I don't know why a wandering monk (or merchant or whomever) from Kara-Tur couldn't make it as far as the Sword Coast. People travel all over Toril for all sorts of reasons and this is another opportunity to dig into the story. Why did the character travel so far? What awaits them at home? Are they running, maybe from something or to something?
On broader points: Yes, of course, the players should know their stuff, assuming they are experienced and not just learning. If the latter, hopefully we all are looking to teach them and help them grow as players and friends. But I also detect a strong whiff of DM adversarialism in the way you express much of this, and that's something I try desperately to avoid. I'm a fan of my players and their characters, though of course the monsters are not. While I try to set tone in the games I run, if the group really wants the flavor to go a certain way, eventually I'll give into the tide because we're having a good time together. This is a game built on collaboration and friendship; attitudes that don't take that into account create a playstyle that I avoid.
I have a very different view as a DM, but I play only with good friends of mine, and we discuss things beforehand. We develop backstories and characters together, and I allow basically anything. I actually encourage special snowflake types in my friends. To me, they're the ones writing the story; I just present them with a setting and consequences of their choices.
I could see how, if you started a group with new players and/ or people you didn't know, these limiting factors would be necessary. But I DM for my players, and I make it for them. I don't think OP is wrong for anything that they do, I just have a different playstyle
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Please reread the title of the thread. It states 'Curmudgeonly Thoughts'. Of course I am going to use a 'voice' that matches that cantankerous cranky term.
Back to my fun though.
12. Players that ask for Advantage for like everything. If a wandering trapper is asked "What is that plant?" Don't turn around and ask me if your character can get Advantage on all survival rolls in that area. Sure, Advantage is a great thing to have, but the situation has to be created in which it would be reasonable.
13. Lost Character sheets. Sure things happen, but try to hold onto the one thing that ties you to the game from session to session. If you are a overbooked, busy person that tends to lose things give the sheet to me, or another player to hold until next session. Better still use my Campaign Page on DDB to build your PC and we can access it from like anywhere.
14. Dice Towers at the Table. Ugh! Again! Just leave your dice on the table...like alone until it is time to use them. The Dice Gods hate these towers and punish players that make them with poor rolls. Also, you are disrupting the game when you are rooting around in the dark looking for that missing D20 that toppled off the table during your last engineering attempt.
15. Not knowing what to roll or what modifiers to add to the action. Now, Newbies are excused from this rule obviously, Duh! But, if we have built your PC, talked over its abilities, highlighted (in different colors) the sections of the sheet, and you regularly forget which die to roll to calculate damage with your Battle Axe, and it is like in glowing PINK just like the last two times this session we pointed it out to you...GRRR!! Are you even paying attention here?
Please reread the title of the thread. It states 'Curmudgeonly Thoughts'. Of course I am going to use a 'voice' that matches that cantankerous cranky term.
Of course you're completely empowered as a DM to set the restrictions you want, but in the Forgotten Realms, I don't know why a wandering monk (or merchant or whomever) from Kara-Tur couldn't make it as far as the Sword Coast. People travel all over Toril for all sorts of reasons and this is another opportunity to dig into the story. Why did the character travel so far? What awaits them at home? Are they running, maybe from something or to something?
I love this one. See, in the second sundering in my game Kara Tur went to Abeir. POOF! No ninjas.
I started with AD&D and after a long hiatus, I am starting up as DM in 5e. So find the plethora of possible PC races a bit overwhelming. Heck, I was suspicious of anyone wanting to play a Half-Orc when that became a thing and Gnomes were always a weird choice in my books. Now it seems like you can’t be a paladin unless you are of that persuasion. So far, ALL the PC’s are Dragonborn, and it looks like there’s at least one Tiefling in the future. Doesn’t anyone want to play an Elf or Dwarf anymore? LOL!
I like to remain philosophical about weird and wonderful combinations of PC race & class. You’re no doubt aware of the trope of “Yes…and…” style of improvisation, so I won’t belabor it. So, I take the style of a fish-out-of-water attitude, ie blown in on the latest Banestorm for something that’s really out of place in the campaign. They are going to stick out like a sore thumb wherever they go, however. I’m prepared to have some fun with awkward encounters with the local populace, but that might not be everyone’s cup of tea as a DM.
For a really harsh treatment of a Half-Orc racial choice for a PC, read the first bit of Critical Failures: Caverns & Creatures Book 1 by Robert Bevan. It’s a oh-crap-we-have-to-play-this-for-real RPG where magic dice transport the players into the game to actually be their PC’s. Campy, but…
Right there with you on the annoyance factor for PC’s who don’t pay attention/don’t know the basics of the game mechanics but are experienced enough to know better/can’t make a decision when it’s their turn/etc. I’ve done that too, so glass houses and all that.
5. A player's right to play any special snowflake character they can dream up. Again no, just no. Players are a dime a dozen, DMs are the limiting resource here.
Yikes. What the heck. That's a really toxic attitude to have.
Not sure that calling someone's behavior "toxic" is going to have the effect you intend.
Everyone loves my monk! My 3 level Warlock dip has an interesting and compelling story! I hope you enjoy my other characters you haven't realised you hate yet =P
I hear you otherwise. This game, this DM, this table, these rules, these expectations. The players must abide.
Meh, this is mostly same old, same old. I've both ran and been in games where the DM wanted to impose a few limits on the great sandbox that is D&D. It's normal, it's natural and possibly it's worth venting about.
My personal rule - changes should be provided up front so everyone knows what to expect. Preferably in writing. My belief is that if you can think up a bunch of new rules you can at least take the time to write out the list. A new change comes up during play? add it to the list. We live in a digital age. These changes can easily be posted in a place everyone can see.
When running I have always kept such lists very short. Eventually too many changes can make the game less recognizable as D&D and more some DM's own homebrew rpg. In my experience the DM's involved in this are rarely organized enough to keep the game coherent. They often like tinkering so much that the players rarely know what to expect from encounter to encounter...and not in a good way.
Which brings me to my final point. If a DM inserts himself between the rules and the players too often, it can become a real drag. The PC's loose investment in the game and might stop caring about what's going on (#6, #7), might try to play something outside of the box in order to feel special (#1, #2, #3, #4), be unsure of what actions do what (#8, #12 and #15), not consider their character sheet important since the DM will tell them what to do (#13), and/or try to enforce some order in perceived chaos (#9, #10, #11). It's quite possible that an attempt at control will create more problems than it solves. It's why I have developed a more accommodating philosophy.
On narrow points: YES, I love when my players take a brief dip into warlock. It's not because of the mechanics; it's because of the story. If they have, say, a fiendish patron, and they have sold their soul for just a little taste of power, I'm going to take that and use it and present the character with some hard choices and temptations. Or if they went with the Great Old Ones, they will have bouts of struggling with madness and dreams of far realms... I shiver thinking of the possibilities.
Of course you're completely empowered as a DM to set the restrictions you want, but in the Forgotten Realms, I don't know why a wandering monk (or merchant or whomever) from Kara-Tur couldn't make it as far as the Sword Coast. People travel all over Toril for all sorts of reasons and this is another opportunity to dig into the story. Why did the character travel so far? What awaits them at home? Are they running, maybe from something or to something?
On broader points: Yes, of course, the players should know their stuff, assuming they are experienced and not just learning. If the latter, hopefully we all are looking to teach them and help them grow as players and friends. But I also detect a strong whiff of DM adversarialism in the way you express much of this, and that's something I try desperately to avoid. I'm a fan of my players and their characters, though of course the monsters are not. While I try to set tone in the games I run, if the group really wants the flavor to go a certain way, eventually I'll give into the tide because we're having a good time together. This is a game built on collaboration and friendship; attitudes that don't take that into account create a playstyle that I avoid.
I have a very different view as a DM, but I play only with good friends of mine, and we discuss things beforehand. We develop backstories and characters together, and I allow basically anything. I actually encourage special snowflake types in my friends. To me, they're the ones writing the story; I just present them with a setting and consequences of their choices.
I could see how, if you started a group with new players and/ or people you didn't know, these limiting factors would be necessary. But I DM for my players, and I make it for them. I don't think OP is wrong for anything that they do, I just have a different playstyle
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Readers and Posters to this thread:
Please reread the title of the thread. It states 'Curmudgeonly Thoughts'. Of course I am going to use a 'voice' that matches that cantankerous cranky term.
Back to my fun though.
12. Players that ask for Advantage for like everything. If a wandering trapper is asked "What is that plant?" Don't turn around and ask me if your character can get Advantage on all survival rolls in that area. Sure, Advantage is a great thing to have, but the situation has to be created in which it would be reasonable.
13. Lost Character sheets. Sure things happen, but try to hold onto the one thing that ties you to the game from session to session. If you are a overbooked, busy person that tends to lose things give the sheet to me, or another player to hold until next session. Better still use my Campaign Page on DDB to build your PC and we can access it from like anywhere.
14. Dice Towers at the Table. Ugh! Again! Just leave your dice on the table...like alone until it is time to use them. The Dice Gods hate these towers and punish players that make them with poor rolls. Also, you are disrupting the game when you are rooting around in the dark looking for that missing D20 that toppled off the table during your last engineering attempt.
15. Not knowing what to roll or what modifiers to add to the action. Now, Newbies are excused from this rule obviously, Duh! But, if we have built your PC, talked over its abilities, highlighted (in different colors) the sections of the sheet, and you regularly forget which die to roll to calculate damage with your Battle Axe, and it is like in glowing PINK just like the last two times this session we pointed it out to you...GRRR!! Are you even paying attention here?
14...
Guilty
15...
PREACH
I started with AD&D and after a long hiatus, I am starting up as DM in 5e. So find the plethora of possible PC races a bit overwhelming. Heck, I was suspicious of anyone wanting to play a Half-Orc when that became a thing and Gnomes were always a weird choice in my books. Now it seems like you can’t be a paladin unless you are of that persuasion. So far, ALL the PC’s are Dragonborn, and it looks like there’s at least one Tiefling in the future. Doesn’t anyone want to play an Elf or Dwarf anymore? LOL!
I like to remain philosophical about weird and wonderful combinations of PC race & class. You’re no doubt aware of the trope of “Yes…and…” style of improvisation, so I won’t belabor it. So, I take the style of a fish-out-of-water attitude, ie blown in on the latest Banestorm for something that’s really out of place in the campaign. They are going to stick out like a sore thumb wherever they go, however. I’m prepared to have some fun with awkward encounters with the local populace, but that might not be everyone’s cup of tea as a DM.
For a really harsh treatment of a Half-Orc racial choice for a PC, read the first bit of Critical Failures: Caverns & Creatures Book 1 by Robert Bevan. It’s a oh-crap-we-have-to-play-this-for-real RPG where magic dice transport the players into the game to actually be their PC’s. Campy, but…
Right there with you on the annoyance factor for PC’s who don’t pay attention/don’t know the basics of the game mechanics but are experienced enough to know better/can’t make a decision when it’s their turn/etc. I’ve done that too, so glass houses and all that.
OP hates me.
Everyone loves my monk! My 3 level Warlock dip has an interesting and compelling story! I hope you enjoy my other characters you haven't realised you hate yet =P
I hear you otherwise. This game, this DM, this table, these rules, these expectations. The players must abide.
Extended Signature
Meh, this is mostly same old, same old. I've both ran and been in games where the DM wanted to impose a few limits on the great sandbox that is D&D. It's normal, it's natural and possibly it's worth venting about.
My personal rule - changes should be provided up front so everyone knows what to expect. Preferably in writing. My belief is that if you can think up a bunch of new rules you can at least take the time to write out the list. A new change comes up during play? add it to the list. We live in a digital age. These changes can easily be posted in a place everyone can see.
When running I have always kept such lists very short. Eventually too many changes can make the game less recognizable as D&D and more some DM's own homebrew rpg. In my experience the DM's involved in this are rarely organized enough to keep the game coherent. They often like tinkering so much that the players rarely know what to expect from encounter to encounter...and not in a good way.
Which brings me to my final point. If a DM inserts himself between the rules and the players too often, it can become a real drag. The PC's loose investment in the game and might stop caring about what's going on (#6, #7), might try to play something outside of the box in order to feel special (#1, #2, #3, #4), be unsure of what actions do what (#8, #12 and #15), not consider their character sheet important since the DM will tell them what to do (#13), and/or try to enforce some order in perceived chaos (#9, #10, #11). It's quite possible that an attempt at control will create more problems than it solves. It's why I have developed a more accommodating philosophy.
Current Characters I am playing: Dr Konstantin van Wulf | Taegen Willowrun | Mad Magnar
Check out my homebrew: Items | Monsters | Spells | Subclasses | Feats