My friend recently challenged me to a 1v1 duel with level 5 characters. We can use UA, any sourcebook, and we get one free uncommon magic item. What is the best possible DPR build to destroy him quickly and easily? He’s going to use a yuan-ti warlock.
In PvP, almost always, the biggest factor is who wins initiative. PCs are not designed to fight each other. So, something with a good dex, maybe the alert feat.
Maybe a bugbear monk. Bugbear for the extra damage on that first round, plus a bit of reach if you’re further away than you’d like. Then, assuming you win initiative, just spam stunning strike and he won’t be able to do anything.
Depends, on how you start. Is it within reach of each other, like 30 feet? Then vengeance paladin with GWM, Bonus action Channel Divinity: Vow of Enmity, to have advantage on attack rolls.
Attack twice, assuming str are 16-17 with GWM, smite at max level (3d8), use a great axe, That would be something like 7(Avg great axe)+10(GWM)+3(str bonus)+15 (avg smite) 35 damage, pr attack. Alot more on a crit.
I have a level 8 character with very decent DPR, but can they be shaved down...
I suspect that the best thing you can aim for is a paladin with maximum attacks per round, for much smiting. Going 2/5 with paladin/fighter would give you the opportunity to go Echo Knight, which would let you do 1 attack normal, 1 extra offhand attack as a bonus, 1 attack from the echo (up to con mod times per rest), and then 2 more attacks from action surge, all of which could be divine-smited, though you only have 2 divine smites. In one round, assuming all hit, you could wield 2 scimitars and deal 5x 1d6+4 (assuming Str 18), plus 4d8 for two divine smites.
Total average would be 56 damage in one round, maximum (all crits, max rolls, half-orc for brutal critical) would be 204 damage in one round.
Them being a warlock though, you will likely struggle to get into combat range unless they want you to. Another option for the above is a Greataxe and Heavy Crossbow combo. You shoot, then your echo (who you manifest 15ft. closer to them, hopefully in melee) attacks with the greataxe. Repeat with action surge, smite with the greataxe attacks. Final result would be 2d10+dex and 2d12+Str, plus 4d8 divine smites. Average damage in one round, assuming 18 and 16 in dex and str, is 11+13+16+8+6 = 54, and better flexibility by having ranged attacks.
For a different approach, you could multiclass 2 levels of rogue with echo knight. Use your first attack to shove, hopefully pushing them prone. Then use your remaining attacks (as per the first build) to get 4 attacks with advantage, and thus sneak attack. that results in 2d6+dex per attack, with a greater likelihood of hitting, on 4 attacks.
To avoid over-reliance on action surging it in one round, you could instead go for the build I made for Pinnocchio in a fairytale game. He was a bountyhunter hexblade warlock with a gun (reflavoured heavy crossbow). Through various combos, he ended up with an improved pact weapon heavy crossbow with +1 to hit and damage, 2 shots per turn (thirsting blade), eldritch smite for 4d8 force damage on a hit, Branding Smite for 3d6 radiant damage on a hit, and the Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter feats (custom lineage for one feat, level 4 ASI for the other) to be able to drop to "only" +4 to hit for +10 damage. The dude had a 400ft. range and could shoot without issue at any point along it.
With a bit of prep in preparing the branding smite within a minute before combat, he could do 1d10+3d6+4d8+16 damage. And he shoots twice, though branding smite and eldritch smite only works once each. That's possible to deal 2d10+3d6+4d8+32 damage each turn, for as many turns as it takes for them to get in range of their attacks. Average 72 every turn until you run out of spell slots, which will happen quickly, and then 2d10+32 each round, for 43 DPR without expending resource (though relying on a lower AC as -5 to hit). Also had spells like Blink and Mirror Image, which are very helpful for keeping you alive if they prove overly aggressive! Probably the most powergamy character I've ever made. Was fun to roleplay as, and devastating in combat!
In PvP, almost always, the biggest factor is who wins initiative. PCs are not designed to fight each other. So, something with a good dex, maybe the alert feat.
Maybe a bugbear monk. Bugbear for the extra damage on that first round, plus a bit of reach if you’re further away than you’d like. Then, assuming you win initiative, just spam stunning strike and he won’t be able to do anything.
I really really want to choose way of shadow and make it so he can’t cast EB with silence.
Depends, on how you start. Is it within reach of each other, like 30 feet? Then vengeance paladin with GWM, Bonus action Channel Divinity: Vow of Enmity, to have advantage on attack rolls.
Attack twice, assuming str are 16-17 with GWM, smite at max level (3d8), use a great axe, That would be something like 7(Avg great axe)+10(GWM)+3(str bonus)+15 (avg smite) 35 damage, pr attack. Alot more on a crit.
In PvP, almost always, the biggest factor is who wins initiative. PCs are not designed to fight each other. So, something with a good dex, maybe the alert feat.
Maybe a bugbear monk. Bugbear for the extra damage on that first round, plus a bit of reach if you’re further away than you’d like. Then, assuming you win initiative, just spam stunning strike and he won’t be able to do anything.
I really really want to choose way of shadow and make it so he can’t cast EB with silence.
He can always move outside the silence. If you stun him, he can’t cast anything, EB or otherwise. He can just stand there and get pummeled. Two normal attacks, plus flurry of blows if needed, he’s bound to fail the save. Then next round, stun him again. Only use the ki points for stunning if you want to play it conservatively, because if you keep him stunlocked, you should definitely kill him in 5 rounds. Use a point for flurry if you miss with your normal attacks. Maybe go Kensei so you can have a higher base damage die. Or ascendant dragon in case he somehow has resistance to a damage type you can change it up.
Since the whole point of this is to win initiative, I really do like bugbear for the bit of extra reach if needed, and piling on 1st round damage. Alert for the feat. Max your dex and wis. For your magic item, take a weapon of warning for advantage on that initiative roll. You win that, you should win the fight without him being able to do anything.
Keep in mind that they took Yaun ti for the magic resistance cutting all your smite damage in half, further they are trying to force you into single classing in order to get the second attack. If the combat starts at range they plan to spam you with 2 Eldritch blasts a round before you even get close. While Paladin is still a solid choice you probably want to go Firblog as a race for their invisibility (hidden step) - start at 121 ft , go invisible for 2 rounds dashing in then attack and the Eldritch blast is pretty well negated. Go ranger and use hunters mark for extra damage on all attacks for the extra damage. In addition take favored Foe and hunter (colossus slayer) for an additional 1d4 + 1d8 damage once a round all non magical so their Magic resistance is useless. I would also take the blind fighting style so if they try to go invisible or use darkness to hide they get surprised. If all backgrounds are available toake wildspace for the toughness feat giving you an extra 10 HP. Finally don’t forget your spells - you know 4 and have 4L1 and 2L2 slots so I would take cure wounds (better than goodberry for this contest), Hunter’s mark, longstrider and protection from poison. Caste longstrider, protection and hunters mark just before the fight saving the remaining slots for cure wounds and hunters mark if you need a recast. Going that way you should do at least as well as any Paladin build and should have negated most if not all of their planned advantages.
Keep in mind that they took Yaun ti for the magic resistance cutting all your smite damage in half
That's not how magic resistance works. All it does is give advantage on saving throws vs spells. It doesn't do jack to a spell that doesn't have a save, or to any magical effect that isn't a spell whether or not it grants a save.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yeah but even that is an advantage that limits what classes the foe can take and it’s still effective against at least some of the Paladin spells like command when not used for smites. You still want to figure out what advantages they are trying for and how to best defeat or nullify them and give yourself advantages as much as you can. Altogether an interesting exercise in min/maxing. Another race that would be an interesting one to use would be an amethyst Dragonborn with its innate resistance to force damage to counter the Eldritch blast. Then go Paladin or ranger (similar to how I described) and see if you can’t take them out. There are still questions about interactions that might need a DM to adjudicate - like whether a spell like chill touch can be caste on an invisible character. It doesn’t say you need to have line of sight or even line of effect just that: “You create a ghostly, skeletal hand in the space of a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the creature to assail it with the chill of the grave” but if the target is invisible and had their move first do you even know which space they are in to create the hand? V
Being invisible does not make you Hidden unless you take the Hide action. It means that you can take the action out in the open, but unless you do your opponent automatically knows where you are. Likewise, all attacks, whether from a weapon or a spell (I couldn't find any spells that require an attack roll that require you to be able to see the opponent), can be made against an invisible opponent. The only impact being invisible has is that you've got disadvantage on the attack roll.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Keep in mind that they took Yaun ti for the magic resistance cutting all your smite damage in half
That's not how magic resistance works. All it does is give advantage on saving throws vs spells. It doesn't do jack to a spell that doesn't have a save, or to any magical effect that isn't a spell whether or not it grants a save.
You are even more correct because he is using the MoMM version, which is only saves vs. spells. The old version may have given advantage on a save, but paladin smite has no save.
Yes I ade a mistake there. Ut it doesn’t Change the main point that in pvp you are looking to eliminate as many of the foe’s advantages as possible while limiting their ability to eliminate yours. The Yuan ti has 2 advantages: Magic resistance and poison, so you need protection from poison and you need to avoid casting spells, especially save or suck spells. I addition, for papa warlock has Eldritch las, darkes ad devil’s sight t allow it to see in the darkness. So they are not going to be willing to start at melee range in all likelihood. So he questions is how do you close 120’ gap as safely as possible and how do you fight in darkness that negates darkvision? A Paladin is going to take 4-6 Eldritch blast castings in the time it takes to close and find the warlock taking upto 60 HP of damage with a max of 52 HP.. How do you avoid this? A paladin’s nova damage is great but it will take 3-4 hits (2-4 rounds) after arriving to take out the warlock vying the the chance to cast 4+ more Eldritch blasts. To cover te 120’ range without taking any blasts yo have to go first and go invisible - welcome to te Firblog’s hidden step. At L5 this gives you 3 rounds of invisible movement to close the space. Then you can negate te darkness taking the blind fighting style ( it perfect but close enough the 10’ r is slightly smaller tan darkness’ 15’r but close nouhtomati contact once you get it. Dashing te Paladin won’t e able to start attacking until round 3 (2 60’ dashes and then the attacking round3 after locating the warlock in the darkness while invisible. A ranger with te to prep a few spells even do better - prep ngtder,protects from poison and Hunter’s mark and you can dash 80’ in round 1 ,then find and attack in round 2while ring protected from poisons. You do wat to win the initiative battle so using the L4ASI for te alertness feat keeps you even or ahead of the warlock.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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My friend recently challenged me to a 1v1 duel with level 5 characters. We can use UA, any sourcebook, and we get one free uncommon magic item. What is the best possible DPR build to destroy him quickly and easily? He’s going to use a yuan-ti warlock.
In PvP, almost always, the biggest factor is who wins initiative. PCs are not designed to fight each other. So, something with a good dex, maybe the alert feat.
Maybe a bugbear monk. Bugbear for the extra damage on that first round, plus a bit of reach if you’re further away than you’d like. Then, assuming you win initiative, just spam stunning strike and he won’t be able to do anything.
Depends, on how you start.
Is it within reach of each other, like 30 feet?
Then vengeance paladin with GWM, Bonus action Channel Divinity: Vow of Enmity, to have advantage on attack rolls.
Attack twice, assuming str are 16-17 with GWM, smite at max level (3d8), use a great axe, That would be something like 7(Avg great axe)+10(GWM)+3(str bonus)+15 (avg smite) 35 damage, pr attack.
Alot more on a crit.
hmmm...
I have a level 8 character with very decent DPR, but can they be shaved down...
I suspect that the best thing you can aim for is a paladin with maximum attacks per round, for much smiting. Going 2/5 with paladin/fighter would give you the opportunity to go Echo Knight, which would let you do 1 attack normal, 1 extra offhand attack as a bonus, 1 attack from the echo (up to con mod times per rest), and then 2 more attacks from action surge, all of which could be divine-smited, though you only have 2 divine smites. In one round, assuming all hit, you could wield 2 scimitars and deal 5x 1d6+4 (assuming Str 18), plus 4d8 for two divine smites.
Total average would be 56 damage in one round, maximum (all crits, max rolls, half-orc for brutal critical) would be 204 damage in one round.
Them being a warlock though, you will likely struggle to get into combat range unless they want you to. Another option for the above is a Greataxe and Heavy Crossbow combo. You shoot, then your echo (who you manifest 15ft. closer to them, hopefully in melee) attacks with the greataxe. Repeat with action surge, smite with the greataxe attacks. Final result would be 2d10+dex and 2d12+Str, plus 4d8 divine smites. Average damage in one round, assuming 18 and 16 in dex and str, is 11+13+16+8+6 = 54, and better flexibility by having ranged attacks.
For a different approach, you could multiclass 2 levels of rogue with echo knight. Use your first attack to shove, hopefully pushing them prone. Then use your remaining attacks (as per the first build) to get 4 attacks with advantage, and thus sneak attack. that results in 2d6+dex per attack, with a greater likelihood of hitting, on 4 attacks.
To avoid over-reliance on action surging it in one round, you could instead go for the build I made for Pinnocchio in a fairytale game. He was a bountyhunter hexblade warlock with a gun (reflavoured heavy crossbow). Through various combos, he ended up with an improved pact weapon heavy crossbow with +1 to hit and damage, 2 shots per turn (thirsting blade), eldritch smite for 4d8 force damage on a hit, Branding Smite for 3d6 radiant damage on a hit, and the Crossbow Expert and Sharpshooter feats (custom lineage for one feat, level 4 ASI for the other) to be able to drop to "only" +4 to hit for +10 damage. The dude had a 400ft. range and could shoot without issue at any point along it.
With a bit of prep in preparing the branding smite within a minute before combat, he could do 1d10+3d6+4d8+16 damage. And he shoots twice, though branding smite and eldritch smite only works once each. That's possible to deal 2d10+3d6+4d8+32 damage each turn, for as many turns as it takes for them to get in range of their attacks. Average 72 every turn until you run out of spell slots, which will happen quickly, and then 2d10+32 each round, for 43 DPR without expending resource (though relying on a lower AC as -5 to hit). Also had spells like Blink and Mirror Image, which are very helpful for keeping you alive if they prove overly aggressive! Probably the most powergamy character I've ever made. Was fun to roleplay as, and devastating in combat!
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I really really want to choose way of shadow and make it so he can’t cast EB with silence.
What race? V human?
He can always move outside the silence. If you stun him, he can’t cast anything, EB or otherwise. He can just stand there and get pummeled. Two normal attacks, plus flurry of blows if needed, he’s bound to fail the save. Then next round, stun him again. Only use the ki points for stunning if you want to play it conservatively, because if you keep him stunlocked, you should definitely kill him in 5 rounds. Use a point for flurry if you miss with your normal attacks. Maybe go Kensei so you can have a higher base damage die. Or ascendant dragon in case he somehow has resistance to a damage type you can change it up.
Since the whole point of this is to win initiative, I really do like bugbear for the bit of extra reach if needed, and piling on 1st round damage. Alert for the feat. Max your dex and wis. For your magic item, take a weapon of warning for advantage on that initiative roll. You win that, you should win the fight without him being able to do anything.
Keep in mind that they took Yaun ti for the magic resistance cutting all your smite damage in half, further they are trying to force you into single classing in order to get the second attack. If the combat starts at range they plan to spam you with 2 Eldritch blasts a round before you even get close. While Paladin is still a solid choice you probably want to go Firblog as a race for their invisibility (hidden step) - start at 121 ft , go invisible for 2 rounds dashing in then attack and the Eldritch blast is pretty well negated. Go ranger and use hunters mark for extra damage on all attacks for the extra damage. In addition take favored Foe and hunter (colossus slayer) for an additional 1d4 + 1d8 damage once a round all non magical so their Magic resistance is useless. I would also take the blind fighting style so if they try to go invisible or use darkness to hide they get surprised. If all backgrounds are available toake wildspace for the toughness feat giving you an extra 10 HP. Finally don’t forget your spells - you know 4 and have 4L1 and 2L2 slots so I would take cure wounds (better than goodberry for this contest), Hunter’s mark, longstrider and protection from poison. Caste longstrider, protection and hunters mark just before the fight saving the remaining slots for cure wounds and hunters mark if you need a recast. Going that way you should do at least as well as any Paladin build and should have negated most if not all of their planned advantages.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
That's not how magic resistance works. All it does is give advantage on saving throws vs spells. It doesn't do jack to a spell that doesn't have a save, or to any magical effect that isn't a spell whether or not it grants a save.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Yeah but even that is an advantage that limits what classes the foe can take and it’s still effective against at least some of the Paladin spells like command when not used for smites. You still want to figure out what advantages they are trying for and how to best defeat or nullify them and give yourself advantages as much as you can. Altogether an interesting exercise in min/maxing. Another race that would be an interesting one to use would be an amethyst Dragonborn with its innate resistance to force damage to counter the Eldritch blast. Then go Paladin or ranger (similar to how I described) and see if you can’t take them out. There are still questions about interactions that might need a DM to adjudicate - like whether a spell like chill touch can be caste on an invisible character. It doesn’t say you need to have line of sight or even line of effect just that: “You create a ghostly, skeletal hand in the space of a creature within range. Make a ranged spell attack against the creature to assail it with the chill of the grave” but if the target is invisible and had their move first do you even know which space they are in to create the hand? V
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Being invisible does not make you Hidden unless you take the Hide action. It means that you can take the action out in the open, but unless you do your opponent automatically knows where you are. Likewise, all attacks, whether from a weapon or a spell (I couldn't find any spells that require an attack roll that require you to be able to see the opponent), can be made against an invisible opponent. The only impact being invisible has is that you've got disadvantage on the attack roll.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You are even more correct because he is using the MoMM version, which is only saves vs. spells. The old version may have given advantage on a save, but paladin smite has no save.
Yes I ade a mistake there. Ut it doesn’t Change the main point that in pvp you are looking to eliminate as many of the foe’s advantages as possible while limiting their ability to eliminate yours. The Yuan ti has 2 advantages: Magic resistance and poison, so you need protection from poison and you need to avoid casting spells, especially save or suck spells. I addition, for papa warlock has Eldritch las, darkes ad devil’s sight t allow it to see in the darkness. So they are not going to be willing to start at melee range in all likelihood. So he questions is how do you close 120’ gap as safely as possible and how do you fight in darkness that negates darkvision? A Paladin is going to take 4-6 Eldritch blast castings in the time it takes to close and find the warlock taking upto 60 HP of damage with a max of 52 HP.. How do you avoid this? A paladin’s nova damage is great but it will take 3-4 hits (2-4 rounds) after arriving to take out the warlock vying the the chance to cast 4+ more Eldritch blasts.
To cover te 120’ range without taking any blasts yo have to go first and go invisible - welcome to te Firblog’s hidden step. At L5 this gives you 3 rounds of invisible movement to close the space. Then you can negate te darkness taking the blind fighting style ( it perfect but close enough the 10’ r is slightly smaller tan darkness’ 15’r but close nouhtomati contact once you get it. Dashing te Paladin won’t e able to start attacking until round 3 (2 60’ dashes and then the attacking round3 after locating the warlock in the darkness while invisible.
A ranger with te to prep a few spells even do better - prep ngtder,protects from poison and Hunter’s mark and you can dash 80’ in round 1 ,then find and attack in round 2while ring protected from poisons. You do wat to win the initiative battle so using the L4ASI for te alertness feat keeps you even or ahead of the warlock.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.