I have a character I would like to create, based around a certain theme. When I create a character, I always start out with an idea, a backstory and what I want to explore with it and then I choose a class that fits that particular idea. What I'm now struggling with is choosing the right class/subclass for the idea that I want. I'm also not sure what ability scores will be the most important for my idea. It does not need to be the most optimized, but if it can be reasonable good to play it will be a big plus.
I want to create a character that was a former advisor for his king. His role was to be the king's right hand and his job was to a very large extent all about information gathering and sometimes about representation. He worked inofficially as a spy for the kingdom and felt very conformtable in travelling around at various courts, mingling around and gather information from them, he mostly acted in the open, but sometimes he did some infiltration too when necessary. He is very patriotic and served his king very dutifully and well during this time period.
I'm mostly leniant about making him a rogue, but rogue is a martial class and does not really build that much around charisma and wisdom (which feels like important stats to have for my build). Bard also seems to be a good alternative, since they naturally fit with charisma, but I don't really know how to incorperate the instrument into my idea.
I'm also not sure how to distribute my ability scores to fit the character idea. Charisma seems like an important stat for social interaction I really like the idea of combining high charisma with the actor feat), wisdom seems improtant for an information gatherer and intelligence seems to at least be moderately important (at least he should know a fair share about history). But if he plays a rogue, who relies a lot on dexterity, the ability scores will be difficult to allocate. I am also not a 100 % sure that rogue fits the theme perfectly, since stealth is not really what I first and foremost associate with this character.
Your backstory makes him the upper class the upper .05% of the population.
It also means that for some reason he left a job and position that gave him a lifelong job a retirement and power. Normally a job for a character of higher level. 10th or higher.
Make him the second son of that advisor and it would sound much more likely that he would go adventuring since he stood little chance of inheriting anything and the chance at a job like his fathers would not happen until his elders died. Then he could be any class you want. Being the second son he would have a good chance of making contacts with all the children in the court and any court his father traveled to.
I agree with thegnome that you need to have some reason to join an adventuring party, an alternative to being a son would be at a lower level (think grunt in the fbi rather than secretary 9f state). If you really want to stick with your concept maybe the king was overthrown or a rival advisor framed you for something and got you sacked in disgrace.
I would probably go bard. Bards are "masters of song, speech, and the magic they contain" you may use an instrument as a focus but you can also use a component pouch. An eloquence bard in particular specialses in the oratory skills of a bard.
You're basically talking about a courtier, a position that tempers Machaivelli's guidance in "The Prince" with the sprezzatura found in Castiglione's Book of the Courtier (think of those as the definitive European texts on early modern hard and soft power). Take the Courtier background. For your concept I'd say it's more important than class/subclass. The background feature is incredibly powerful: you understand how power moves:
Feature: Court Functionary
Your knowledge of how bureaucracies function lets you gain access to the records and inner workings of any noble court or government you encounter. You know who the movers and shakers are, whom to go to for the favors you seek, and what the current intrigues of interest in the group are.
I wouldn't worry about the objections saying "no way a character like that would find themselves in an adventuring party." Courtiers lives have fortunes, and being an advisor to the court of a monarch or other noble is not job security. A liege's value of your advice can be fickle, and some may dismiss you for your advice being no longer in fashion, or possibly to remedy some larger intrigue beyond your control. If you know Game of Thrones, think Littlefinger, but really many of the characters have courtier aspects to them, Littlefinger hits it most on the nose.
College of Eloquence is probably fine, but I would take a hard look at College of Whispers. Whisper bards aren't entertainers, they know things, especially how power operates, and they know how to use that knowledge to leverage.
Charisma is important, and to the Bard class. Wisdom is also important if you want to utilize insight. If you want the character to be well studied in book knowledge and not just social intelligence round out the brain trifecta with INT, or go with DEX to give you an edge, so to speak with finesse weapons and maybe some boost to your AC. If you read the actual biographies of courtiers and see that the job isn't some sort of civil service life long appointment, you'd see many like Castilgione, but also Johannes Keplar (yes, the orbital mechanics guy from high school physics) would often alternate time in court with time being literal mercenaries and soldiers of fortune. It's actually pretty fascinating stuff and worth diving into if you see the character as a long term investment.
Those men did not become advisors by being poor, ignorant and unconnected. All the advisors you mentioned were older men of means not starting out characters of first level.
Your court functionary quote could very easily apply to anyone who grew up or worked in the court for any feasible time. A smart maid would fill the bill.
the Op asked about the kings "right hand man". Someone a bit more important than one of a dozen court advisors and someone far more valuable than a 1lvl character.
As others have said the concept in vision Ed is really that of tier 3/4 character not a tier 1. The idea of a second son is not bad but the reality is that second sons often did enherit as the eldest often died. Making him a 3rd , 4th, or 5th son works better. He would have been raised at court and if he has the natural talent his father has he could have developed some skills already. Bard is probably the best overall choice but I would look at using the 1DnD background mechanics and bard mechanics not the PHB. Generally such sons were trained as warriors (knights so a level or 2 as a fighter (or ranger) might ft the backstory. Yes no matter what you do the character is going to be MAD as you need Charisma, Dex, Con, Wis, and Int.u don’t really have a good dump stat since you should have decent strength (unless maybe you play a female version of the character that might also allow it to be less MAD and a single class)
You're basically talking about a courtier, a position that tempers Machaivelli's guidance in "The Prince" with the sprezzatura found in Castiglione's Book of the Courtier (think of those as the definitive European texts on early modern hard and soft power). Take the Courtier background. For your concept I'd say it's more important than class/subclass. The background feature is incredibly powerful: you understand how power moves:
Feature: Court Functionary
Your knowledge of how bureaucracies function lets you gain access to the records and inner workings of any noble court or government you encounter. You know who the movers and shakers are, whom to go to for the favors you seek, and what the current intrigues of interest in the group are.
I wouldn't worry about the objections saying "no way a character like that would find themselves in an adventuring party." Courtiers lives have fortunes, and being an advisor to the court of a monarch or other noble is not job security. A liege's value of your advice can be fickle, and some may dismiss you for your advice being no longer in fashion, or possibly to remedy some larger intrigue beyond your control. If you know Game of Thrones, think Littlefinger, but really many of the characters have courtier aspects to them, Littlefinger hits it most on the nose.
College of Eloquence is probably fine, but I would take a hard look at College of Whispers. Whisper bards aren't entertainers, they know things, especially how power operates, and they know how to use that knowledge to leverage.
Charisma is important, and to the Bard class. Wisdom is also important if you want to utilize insight. If you want the character to be well studied in book knowledge and not just social intelligence round out the brain trifecta with INT, or go with DEX to give you an edge, so to speak with finesse weapons and maybe some boost to your AC. If you read the actual biographies of courtiers and see that the job isn't some sort of civil service life long appointment, you'd see many like Castilgione, but also Johannes Keplar (yes, the orbital mechanics guy from high school physics) would often alternate time in court with time being literal mercenaries and soldiers of fortune. It's actually pretty fascinating stuff and worth diving into if you see the character as a long term investment.
I think the better template for a low-level courtier-based character might be Steerpike in the Gormenghast books -- a scullery boy who schemes his way into a rapid ascent up the social ladder via blackmail and murder before getting exposed
Rogue and bard are solid choices, but you might also want to consider a full caster like sorcerer -- CHA-based magic with Subtle metamagic and a focus on charm and illusion spells that you can fall back on when your glib tongue fails you
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think you can make it work, but I also agree that “right hand of the king” and 1st level don’t usually go together. Maybe it was a new king. You were childhood friends with the prince, and were to become his right hand, since he trusted you. He ascended to the throne (meaning you technically held the position), only to have it usurped by a scheming uncle. You and the prince barely escaped with your lives. You split up with the plan being for you to gather as much dirt on the uncle as you could while the prince went to gather allies. Now you’ve got a motivation, an enemy and a recurring NPC friend.
And to answer your question, I completely agree with midnightplat, courtier background and whisper bard all the way.
thing is, that was about the theme I had written for with my character. I wanted to be brief with my backstory because a lot of what is written about it regards social aspects, which I didn't felt was relevant to my choice of class. So he wasn't the king's advisor for a very long time, but he trained his entire life to become it. When the title was usurped by a family member (again, I'm not going into a ton of detail about it, it's not what I want to concentrate on in this thread), his pride just took such a blunt hit that he couldn't bear to stay in the city anymore and he left.
Use the Chalatan Background which gives you a false identity, play that up as your courtier in a manner similar to Sir Ulfric of Liechstenstein (Heath Ledgers character in the film "A Knights Tale"), if anyone queries why you are adventuring then you fell out of favour and need to rebuild your fortunes and prove yourself to your liege.
You could also look at the character of Major MIchael Hogan from the Sharpe series of books/tv, he was an "Engineer" that worked behind enemy lines and marshalled alls orts of political intruge and espionage. Take Guild Artisan or Noble for a background and just be someone going out and gathering info for reasons you are "not at liberty to talk about".
Then take any class you like you like.
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I feel this should always be a bard. The 'grand visier' feels like a wizard, but propably - he's a bard.
Also, I think it should be added to the bard class descriptions that while bard can be any alignment, and some bards are good, the class has a strong tendency towards mustache-twirling levels of evil.
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It always amazes me how many folks want to take a very character/class into an evil direction - apparently just because they can. Class descriptions are alignment neutral for a reason. That said I think Xalthu and midnight are on the right track - a bard with great stats ( so roll not standard array and get permission to roll multiple time taking the best roll). The 1 d&d background and expert classes are going to give you the best bang for your buck in designing the character but variant human and the PHB will work. You may want a level or two dip into fighter or ranger to improve martial capabilities ( I could see as much as L5 for the 2 attacks but no further) remember you can trade out the musical instruments for other tools or skills using the rules in Tasha.
As a Player - I'd suggest INT/WIS/CHA as the primary stats to focus on and (as mentioned above) the Courtier background as the sensible choice.
As an idealist DM I'd really suggest Role Play as the "most fun" - if you've got a concept in mind - knuckle into it and let the dice roll. What's your idea of fun? Regardless of Class/Stats/etc. fun is optimal - so give us a better idea of what you would find fun - after a bit of discussion with your DM (and table-mates)? Is it a "combat"/Adventuring Party Table or a Roleplay focussed table?
Personally, I might go INT/WIS and maybe (if pointbuy) use Con/Str/Dex as my dump stats and play:
https://firstlaw.fandom.com/wiki/Sand_dan_Glokta There's a multitude of ways you can cook it/flavour it etc. etc. and honestly - DM advice - something you're going to enjoy. If it's tactical/stats as gameplay, lots of us can give you various opinions on "killer builds", but give a bit more to go on with your idea of fun - it's definitely a "cool concept" that could go many, many ways - I could realistically see any class "working" depending on how you want to lean into it and again - your idea of fun in conjunction with your DM and tablemates.
Some great suggestions here, I’ll try and come up with a couple more…
1. Our character is a young rogue or bard in the kings intelligence service, not yet the kings right hand man but known to him, and it’s a ladder he still has to climb to become more important and gain that position.
2. Our character is a childhood friend of the young king and sees him being badly served by advisers, and wants to gain a solid position at the court.
I always think giving characters something to aim for, rather than having a settled background which leaves them with no reason to go adventuring.
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Netherlands, GMT +1 // “Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, add what is uniquely your own.” — Bruce Lee
I think a former "king's right hand man" being a level 1 adventurer is absolutely OK as long as there is a reason behind it.
The vast majority of people in the D&D world do not have a class "True bards are not common in the world. Not every minstrel singing in a tavern or jester cavorting in a royal court is a bard.". Class level is an indication of how skilled you are at adventuring not how skilled you are at life in general.
The advisor as described focusing more on charisma and wisdom to obtain his information. Most people is such positions I would imagine not having any class, they would just be of higher charisma and wisdom than the average commoner. They might also be proficient in a number of skills equivalent ot a 1st level bard and the ability to inspire others. fTo have such a character to learn a few low level spells and be able to inspire others to perform a little better than expected. Things like the abilty to cast a few first level spells and inspire others would not be out of place in such an advisor but they would not be expected to have the high level spells of a tier 3 bard as many have claimed.
I think a former "king's right hand man" being a level 1 adventurer is absolutely OK as long as there is a reason behind it.
Really, that's something only the DM can settle, although as a rule of thumb I prefer a little more remove from quite that much prestige and authority on a new character, particularly if they're starting at a low level. Leaves you more room to grow and avoids the risk of looking like you're angling to get some extra perks out of your background. Purely from a narrative standpoint I don't object to the concept, it's just that in D&D it's best to temper your expectations and prestige for a new character in my experience. Being exceptionally competent is one thing, but having or having had the ear of a king in early play can be a bridge too far.
I think a former "king's right hand man" being a level 1 adventurer is absolutely OK as long as there is a reason behind it.
Really, that's something only the DM can settle, although as a rule of thumb I prefer a little more remove from quite that much prestige and authority on a new character, particularly if they're starting at a low level. Leaves you more room to grow and avoids the risk of looking like you're angling to get some extra perks out of your background. Purely from a narrative standpoint I don't object to the concept, it's just that in D&D it's best to temper your expectations and prestige for a new character in my experience. Being exceptionally competent is one thing, but having or having had the ear of a king in early play can be a bridge too far.
That is a very good point but something that can be eliminated in discussions between the player and the DM. For example if the usurper gave falsified evidence to the king that the player character had taken money from the treasury coffers, shown secret documents to his friends at the Dragonchess club / been partying when everyone was supposed ot be self isolating at a time of plague, essentially anything that is not bad enough to deserve death but bad enough that the king would not want anything to do with him (and the usurper would be preventing any contact between them as well).
I think a former "king's right hand man" being a level 1 adventurer is absolutely OK as long as there is a reason behind it.
Really, that's something only the DM can settle, although as a rule of thumb I prefer a little more remove from quite that much prestige and authority on a new character, particularly if they're starting at a low level. Leaves you more room to grow and avoids the risk of looking like you're angling to get some extra perks out of your background. Purely from a narrative standpoint I don't object to the concept, it's just that in D&D it's best to temper your expectations and prestige for a new character in my experience. Being exceptionally competent is one thing, but having or having had the ear of a king in early play can be a bridge too far.
That is a very good point but something that can be eliminated in discussions between the player and the DM. For example if the usurper gave falsified evidence to the king that the player character had taken money from the treasury coffers, shown secret documents to his friends at the Dragonchess club / been partying when everyone was supposed ot be self isolating at a time of plague, essentially anything that is not bad enough to deserve death but bad enough that the king would not want anything to do with him (and the usurper would be preventing any contact between them as well).
It's not just a question of how the character lost their station. The backstory would need to explain why they're now out adventuring rather than working to regain their station if they fell that far. Someone framing them and getting them exiled would just make me ask, as a DM, "OK, so why aren't they holed up just over the border using what contacts and resources they still have to expose the person who framed them?"
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Anything that would chase them out of court is enough to have them put in jail or have them killed.
A usurper doesn't care about some lowly advisor running around unless they have a chance of kicking them off the thrown.And in that case the whole of the palace guard would be looking for them along with any scouts assassins and bounty hunters.
Remove all the prestige and power from the background and just leave it at a few contacts in court or two. Even that is more than 99% of the world would have and could be used to gain access to employment in the court in the future.
I have a character I would like to create, based around a certain theme. When I create a character, I always start out with an idea, a backstory and what I want to explore with it and then I choose a class that fits that particular idea. What I'm now struggling with is choosing the right class/subclass for the idea that I want. I'm also not sure what ability scores will be the most important for my idea. It does not need to be the most optimized, but if it can be reasonable good to play it will be a big plus.
I want to create a character that was a former advisor for his king. His role was to be the king's right hand and his job was to a very large extent all about information gathering and sometimes about representation. He worked inofficially as a spy for the kingdom and felt very conformtable in travelling around at various courts, mingling around and gather information from them, he mostly acted in the open, but sometimes he did some infiltration too when necessary. He is very patriotic and served his king very dutifully and well during this time period.
I'm mostly leniant about making him a rogue, but rogue is a martial class and does not really build that much around charisma and wisdom (which feels like important stats to have for my build). Bard also seems to be a good alternative, since they naturally fit with charisma, but I don't really know how to incorperate the instrument into my idea.
I'm also not sure how to distribute my ability scores to fit the character idea. Charisma seems like an important stat for social interaction I really like the idea of combining high charisma with the actor feat), wisdom seems improtant for an information gatherer and intelligence seems to at least be moderately important (at least he should know a fair share about history). But if he plays a rogue, who relies a lot on dexterity, the ability scores will be difficult to allocate. I am also not a 100 % sure that rogue fits the theme perfectly, since stealth is not really what I first and foremost associate with this character.
I'm open to all suggestions
The bard class fits the role best and what you described is typical of that role in different cultures.. Traditional roles of a bard would include advising their patron, information gathering, explaining lineages and histories, explaining customs, promoting their patron, heraldry, etc. A bard could be called on to advise, spy, scout, or fight as needed.
A rogue (like Tyrion Lannister) would make an excellent choice (sneak attack is a bit off-putting on the concept in my mind though), and a sorcerer can also fit the courtly vizier style. A warlock fits mechanically but I would have issues with fitting in a royal patron and the eldritch patron if it were me. If you want someone a little more knightly a banneret using fighter build choices towards that style fits the motif -- royal envoy is literally one of the banneret abilities.
I'd still go bard. The mentioned traits are typical of the class function in both history and fantasy. Since information gathering is a CHA check without an associated skill (refer to PHB pg 179) via news or gossip, or blending into a crowd, jack of all trades helps in the regard as well as applying to any other ability that might come up. Beyond that the subclass and style depends on what else you see in your concept.
If you're having trouble with the instrument into your idea then I would stay cleric of glamour bards. The general concept is based around performance. Spirits doesn't look suitable at first, but the idea that the land or ancestors recognize the true king is a trope that could work for you. An example from modern comics would be Vulko petitioning the spirits of Atlantis for help in Aquaman comics.
Whispers probably isn't the right style either, but works as the dark and loyal advisor. Think Grima Wormtongue spying and spreading disinformation on behalf of Saruman after infiltrating Theoden's court. Eloquence also fits into a courtly intrigue campaign because of the silvertongue and unsettling words abilities. This style of bard relies on logic and arguement, and would be typical of many Greek philosophers. Pythagoras and the music of the spheres would fall into this style of bard. If the campaign spends a lot of time in social encounters eloquence is a solid choice.
Valor bards are usually one of my top choices. Valor is the classic bard who inspires, sings, fights, and can be a bit roguish. Mance Rayder was a bard in Game of Thrones who sang of of Bael the Bard, both of whom became King-Beyond-the-Wall. Mance was extremely loyal to the freefolk. A background like criminal, spy, or urchin fits a classic bard archetype with valor, and a background like noble fits right in if a more physical combat style of bard is what you're looking for. The alternative would be the swords bard. I think the valor bard demonstrates the warrior bard as hanging in the front of battle shield in hand and seems more military than courtly. The swords bard is similar but relies more on finesse and movement so the style of combat you would prefer by either is the significant factor. Brom from Eragon who travels the countryside as an innocuous storyteller inspiring people with legends of the dragon riders fits this style.
If you're expecting to enter combat regularly then swords or valor would be the way to go. If you're specifically focusing on skills then lore bard is probably your best choice. Jack of all trades helps with the traits you described early, but adding extra skill proficiencies and cutting words (for opposed checks) does a lot for this style of character, and peerless skill later helps with all the skills. This would be my recommendation based on what you described. I gave the other examples in case you want to go that route. Taliesin would be the example I would use for this style of bard.
(Lore) bard 1 with a noble background gains history and persuasion. Investigation, sleight of hand, and stealth can be added at 1st level. Insight, deception, and perception are good skills to add at 3rd level. Focus on CHA first, then DEX, then CON.
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Hello everyone
I have a character I would like to create, based around a certain theme. When I create a character, I always start out with an idea, a backstory and what I want to explore with it and then I choose a class that fits that particular idea. What I'm now struggling with is choosing the right class/subclass for the idea that I want. I'm also not sure what ability scores will be the most important for my idea. It does not need to be the most optimized, but if it can be reasonable good to play it will be a big plus.
I want to create a character that was a former advisor for his king. His role was to be the king's right hand and his job was to a very large extent all about information gathering and sometimes about representation. He worked inofficially as a spy for the kingdom and felt very conformtable in travelling around at various courts, mingling around and gather information from them, he mostly acted in the open, but sometimes he did some infiltration too when necessary. He is very patriotic and served his king very dutifully and well during this time period.
I'm mostly leniant about making him a rogue, but rogue is a martial class and does not really build that much around charisma and wisdom (which feels like important stats to have for my build). Bard also seems to be a good alternative, since they naturally fit with charisma, but I don't really know how to incorperate the instrument into my idea.
I'm also not sure how to distribute my ability scores to fit the character idea. Charisma seems like an important stat for social interaction I really like the idea of combining high charisma with the actor feat), wisdom seems improtant for an information gatherer and intelligence seems to at least be moderately important (at least he should know a fair share about history). But if he plays a rogue, who relies a lot on dexterity, the ability scores will be difficult to allocate. I am also not a 100 % sure that rogue fits the theme perfectly, since stealth is not really what I first and foremost associate with this character.
I'm open to all suggestions
Your backstory makes him the upper class the upper .05% of the population.
It also means that for some reason he left a job and position that gave him a lifelong job a retirement and power. Normally a job for a character of higher level. 10th or higher.
Make him the second son of that advisor and it would sound much more likely that he would go adventuring since he stood little chance of inheriting anything and the chance at a job like his fathers would not happen until his elders died.
Then he could be any class you want.
Being the second son he would have a good chance of making contacts with all the children in the court and any court his father traveled to.
I agree with thegnome that you need to have some reason to join an adventuring party, an alternative to being a son would be at a lower level (think grunt in the fbi rather than secretary 9f state). If you really want to stick with your concept maybe the king was overthrown or a rival advisor framed you for something and got you sacked in disgrace.
I would probably go bard. Bards are "masters of song, speech, and the magic they contain" you may use an instrument as a focus but you can also use a component pouch. An eloquence bard in particular specialses in the oratory skills of a bard.
You're basically talking about a courtier, a position that tempers Machaivelli's guidance in "The Prince" with the sprezzatura found in Castiglione's Book of the Courtier (think of those as the definitive European texts on early modern hard and soft power). Take the Courtier background. For your concept I'd say it's more important than class/subclass. The background feature is incredibly powerful: you understand how power moves:
I wouldn't worry about the objections saying "no way a character like that would find themselves in an adventuring party." Courtiers lives have fortunes, and being an advisor to the court of a monarch or other noble is not job security. A liege's value of your advice can be fickle, and some may dismiss you for your advice being no longer in fashion, or possibly to remedy some larger intrigue beyond your control. If you know Game of Thrones, think Littlefinger, but really many of the characters have courtier aspects to them, Littlefinger hits it most on the nose.
College of Eloquence is probably fine, but I would take a hard look at College of Whispers. Whisper bards aren't entertainers, they know things, especially how power operates, and they know how to use that knowledge to leverage.
Charisma is important, and to the Bard class. Wisdom is also important if you want to utilize insight. If you want the character to be well studied in book knowledge and not just social intelligence round out the brain trifecta with INT, or go with DEX to give you an edge, so to speak with finesse weapons and maybe some boost to your AC. If you read the actual biographies of courtiers and see that the job isn't some sort of civil service life long appointment, you'd see many like Castilgione, but also Johannes Keplar (yes, the orbital mechanics guy from high school physics) would often alternate time in court with time being literal mercenaries and soldiers of fortune. It's actually pretty fascinating stuff and worth diving into if you see the character as a long term investment.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Those men did not become advisors by being poor, ignorant and unconnected.
All the advisors you mentioned were older men of means not starting out characters of first level.
Your court functionary quote could very easily apply to anyone who grew up or worked in the court for any feasible time. A smart maid would fill the bill.
the Op asked about the kings "right hand man". Someone a bit more important than one of a dozen court advisors and someone far more valuable than a 1lvl character.
As others have said the concept in vision Ed is really that of tier 3/4 character not a tier 1. The idea of a second son is not bad but the reality is that second sons often did enherit as the eldest often died. Making him a 3rd , 4th, or 5th son works better. He would have been raised at court and if he has the natural talent his father has he could have developed some skills already. Bard is probably the best overall choice but I would look at using the 1DnD background mechanics and bard mechanics not the PHB. Generally such sons were trained as warriors (knights so a level or 2 as a fighter (or ranger) might ft the backstory. Yes no matter what you do the character is going to be MAD as you need Charisma, Dex, Con, Wis, and Int.u don’t really have a good dump stat since you should have decent strength (unless maybe you play a female version of the character that might also allow it to be less MAD and a single class)
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I think the better template for a low-level courtier-based character might be Steerpike in the Gormenghast books -- a scullery boy who schemes his way into a rapid ascent up the social ladder via blackmail and murder before getting exposed
Rogue and bard are solid choices, but you might also want to consider a full caster like sorcerer -- CHA-based magic with Subtle metamagic and a focus on charm and illusion spells that you can fall back on when your glib tongue fails you
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I think you can make it work, but I also agree that “right hand of the king” and 1st level don’t usually go together. Maybe it was a new king. You were childhood friends with the prince, and were to become his right hand, since he trusted you. He ascended to the throne (meaning you technically held the position), only to have it usurped by a scheming uncle. You and the prince barely escaped with your lives. You split up with the plan being for you to gather as much dirt on the uncle as you could while the prince went to gather allies.
Now you’ve got a motivation, an enemy and a recurring NPC friend.
And to answer your question, I completely agree with midnightplat, courtier background and whisper bard all the way.
thing is, that was about the theme I had written for with my character. I wanted to be brief with my backstory because a lot of what is written about it regards social aspects, which I didn't felt was relevant to my choice of class. So he wasn't the king's advisor for a very long time, but he trained his entire life to become it. When the title was usurped by a family member (again, I'm not going into a ton of detail about it, it's not what I want to concentrate on in this thread), his pride just took such a blunt hit that he couldn't bear to stay in the city anymore and he left.
My 2cp worth...
Use the Chalatan Background which gives you a false identity, play that up as your courtier in a manner similar to Sir Ulfric of Liechstenstein (Heath Ledgers character in the film "A Knights Tale"), if anyone queries why you are adventuring then you fell out of favour and need to rebuild your fortunes and prove yourself to your liege.
You could also look at the character of Major MIchael Hogan from the Sharpe series of books/tv, he was an "Engineer" that worked behind enemy lines and marshalled alls orts of political intruge and espionage. Take Guild Artisan or Noble for a background and just be someone going out and gathering info for reasons you are "not at liberty to talk about".
Then take any class you like you like.
I feel this should always be a bard. The 'grand visier' feels like a wizard, but propably - he's a bard.
Also, I think it should be added to the bard class descriptions that while bard can be any alignment, and some bards are good, the class has a strong tendency towards mustache-twirling levels of evil.
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
It always amazes me how many folks want to take a very character/class into an evil direction - apparently just because they can. Class descriptions are alignment neutral for a reason. That said I think Xalthu and midnight are on the right track - a bard with great stats ( so roll not standard array and get permission to roll multiple time taking the best roll). The 1 d&d background and expert classes are going to give you the best bang for your buck in designing the character but variant human and the PHB will work. You may want a level or two dip into fighter or ranger to improve martial capabilities ( I could see as much as L5 for the 2 attacks but no further) remember you can trade out the musical instruments for other tools or skills using the rules in Tasha.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
As a Player - I'd suggest INT/WIS/CHA as the primary stats to focus on and (as mentioned above) the Courtier background as the sensible choice.
As an idealist DM I'd really suggest Role Play as the "most fun" - if you've got a concept in mind - knuckle into it and let the dice roll. What's your idea of fun? Regardless of Class/Stats/etc. fun is optimal - so give us a better idea of what you would find fun - after a bit of discussion with your DM (and table-mates)? Is it a "combat"/Adventuring Party Table or a Roleplay focussed table?
Personally, I might go INT/WIS and maybe (if pointbuy) use Con/Str/Dex as my dump stats and play:
https://firstlaw.fandom.com/wiki/Sand_dan_Glokta
There's a multitude of ways you can cook it/flavour it etc. etc. and honestly - DM advice - something you're going to enjoy. If it's tactical/stats as gameplay, lots of us can give you various opinions on "killer builds", but give a bit more to go on with your idea of fun - it's definitely a "cool concept" that could go many, many ways - I could realistically see any class "working" depending on how you want to lean into it and again - your idea of fun in conjunction with your DM and tablemates.
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Some great suggestions here, I’ll try and come up with a couple more…
1. Our character is a young rogue or bard in the kings intelligence service, not yet the kings right hand man but known to him, and it’s a ladder he still has to climb to become more important and gain that position.
2. Our character is a childhood friend of the young king and sees him being badly served by advisers, and wants to gain a solid position at the court.
I always think giving characters something to aim for, rather than having a settled background which leaves them with no reason to go adventuring.
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I think a former "king's right hand man" being a level 1 adventurer is absolutely OK as long as there is a reason behind it.
The vast majority of people in the D&D world do not have a class "True bards are not common in the world. Not every minstrel singing in a tavern or jester cavorting in a royal court is a bard.". Class level is an indication of how skilled you are at adventuring not how skilled you are at life in general.
The advisor as described focusing more on charisma and wisdom to obtain his information. Most people is such positions I would imagine not having any class, they would just be of higher charisma and wisdom than the average commoner. They might also be proficient in a number of skills equivalent ot a 1st level bard and the ability to inspire others. fTo have such a character to learn a few low level spells and be able to inspire others to perform a little better than expected. Things like the abilty to cast a few first level spells and inspire others would not be out of place in such an advisor but they would not be expected to have the high level spells of a tier 3 bard as many have claimed.
Really, that's something only the DM can settle, although as a rule of thumb I prefer a little more remove from quite that much prestige and authority on a new character, particularly if they're starting at a low level. Leaves you more room to grow and avoids the risk of looking like you're angling to get some extra perks out of your background. Purely from a narrative standpoint I don't object to the concept, it's just that in D&D it's best to temper your expectations and prestige for a new character in my experience. Being exceptionally competent is one thing, but having or having had the ear of a king in early play can be a bridge too far.
That is a very good point but something that can be eliminated in discussions between the player and the DM. For example if the usurper gave falsified evidence to the king that the player character had taken money from the treasury coffers, shown secret documents to his friends at the Dragonchess club / been partying when everyone was supposed ot be self isolating at a time of plague, essentially anything that is not bad enough to deserve death but bad enough that the king would not want anything to do with him (and the usurper would be preventing any contact between them as well).
It's not just a question of how the character lost their station. The backstory would need to explain why they're now out adventuring rather than working to regain their station if they fell that far. Someone framing them and getting them exiled would just make me ask, as a DM, "OK, so why aren't they holed up just over the border using what contacts and resources they still have to expose the person who framed them?"
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Anything that would chase them out of court is enough to have them put in jail or have them killed.
A usurper doesn't care about some lowly advisor running around unless they have a chance of kicking them off the thrown.And in that case the whole of the palace guard would be looking for them along with any scouts assassins and bounty hunters.
Remove all the prestige and power from the background and just leave it at a few contacts in court or two. Even that is more than 99% of the world would have and could be used to gain access to employment in the court in the future.
The bard class fits the role best and what you described is typical of that role in different cultures.. Traditional roles of a bard would include advising their patron, information gathering, explaining lineages and histories, explaining customs, promoting their patron, heraldry, etc. A bard could be called on to advise, spy, scout, or fight as needed.
A rogue (like Tyrion Lannister) would make an excellent choice (sneak attack is a bit off-putting on the concept in my mind though), and a sorcerer can also fit the courtly vizier style. A warlock fits mechanically but I would have issues with fitting in a royal patron and the eldritch patron if it were me. If you want someone a little more knightly a banneret using fighter build choices towards that style fits the motif -- royal envoy is literally one of the banneret abilities.
I'd still go bard. The mentioned traits are typical of the class function in both history and fantasy. Since information gathering is a CHA check without an associated skill (refer to PHB pg 179) via news or gossip, or blending into a crowd, jack of all trades helps in the regard as well as applying to any other ability that might come up. Beyond that the subclass and style depends on what else you see in your concept.
If you're having trouble with the instrument into your idea then I would stay cleric of glamour bards. The general concept is based around performance. Spirits doesn't look suitable at first, but the idea that the land or ancestors recognize the true king is a trope that could work for you. An example from modern comics would be Vulko petitioning the spirits of Atlantis for help in Aquaman comics.
Whispers probably isn't the right style either, but works as the dark and loyal advisor. Think Grima Wormtongue spying and spreading disinformation on behalf of Saruman after infiltrating Theoden's court. Eloquence also fits into a courtly intrigue campaign because of the silvertongue and unsettling words abilities. This style of bard relies on logic and arguement, and would be typical of many Greek philosophers. Pythagoras and the music of the spheres would fall into this style of bard. If the campaign spends a lot of time in social encounters eloquence is a solid choice.
Valor bards are usually one of my top choices. Valor is the classic bard who inspires, sings, fights, and can be a bit roguish. Mance Rayder was a bard in Game of Thrones who sang of of Bael the Bard, both of whom became King-Beyond-the-Wall. Mance was extremely loyal to the freefolk. A background like criminal, spy, or urchin fits a classic bard archetype with valor, and a background like noble fits right in if a more physical combat style of bard is what you're looking for. The alternative would be the swords bard. I think the valor bard demonstrates the warrior bard as hanging in the front of battle shield in hand and seems more military than courtly. The swords bard is similar but relies more on finesse and movement so the style of combat you would prefer by either is the significant factor. Brom from Eragon who travels the countryside as an innocuous storyteller inspiring people with legends of the dragon riders fits this style.
If you're expecting to enter combat regularly then swords or valor would be the way to go. If you're specifically focusing on skills then lore bard is probably your best choice. Jack of all trades helps with the traits you described early, but adding extra skill proficiencies and cutting words (for opposed checks) does a lot for this style of character, and peerless skill later helps with all the skills. This would be my recommendation based on what you described. I gave the other examples in case you want to go that route. Taliesin would be the example I would use for this style of bard.
(Lore) bard 1 with a noble background gains history and persuasion. Investigation, sleight of hand, and stealth can be added at 1st level. Insight, deception, and perception are good skills to add at 3rd level. Focus on CHA first, then DEX, then CON.