So watching the official videos talking about the forthcoming Planescape releases, we learn that the Senior Game Designer for the books insists that the city of Sigil is pronounced as if it were spelled "Siggle."
Look, I learned to be flexible in doing away with racially-based ASIs.
I've worked hard on being open-minded on removing forced evil alignments from certain humanoids.
I've embraced a good number of rules changes in the staggered UA playtests.
But this...this is a bridge too far. I can't do it. "Sigil" will always, ALWAYS be pronounced SIJ-ill. * shakes fist at screen *
As a word, the proper pronunciation in English is "sijel".
Going back to the original, with Cook's team really pushing it, I still recall hearing all of them use the soft J, and a couple using the hard G.
for me, it will always be the soft j, just as gif will always be a hard g, lol.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I’ll be pronouncing it ˈsijəl, since that is how I have always pronounced it and how everyone I know pronounces it.
But I fully admit my pronunciation is wrong and "Siggle” is correct. And, to be frank, if someone from Wizards was pronouncing it ˈsijəl… that would cause me to lose some faith in the product. I am very comfortable with me and everyone I know pronouncing it with the English pronunciation, but the people making the product should know enough to use the D&D pronunciation.
I remember when Mercer got dragged hard for using the hard 'g'. I have never heard it pronounced that way and always understood it to be the soft 'j'.
Mercer got dragged because he was mispronouncing the actual English word, which has only one pronunciation, not because he was talking about the city in the Outlands.
So watching the official videos talking about the forthcoming Planescape releases, we learn that the Senior Game Designer for the books insists that the city of Sigil is pronounced as if it were spelled "Siggle."
Look, I learned to be flexible in doing away with racially-based ASIs.
I've worked hard on being open-minded on removing forced evil alignments from certain humanoids.
I've embraced a good number of rules changes in the staggered UA playtests.
But this...this is a bridge too far. I can't do it. "Sigil" will always, ALWAYS be pronounced SIJ-ill. * shakes fist at screen *
Jokes aside, I think that honestly both pronunciations are canon: you know that people in the Clerk's Ward are not going to pronounce words the same way as the berks down in the Hive.
Jokes aside, I think that honestly both pronunciations are canon: you know that people in the Clerk's Ward are not going to pronounce words the same way as the berks down in the Hive.
Just because it's canon doesn't mean the people who pronounce it with a hard 'g' aren't secretly worshippers of Lolth. 😜
Jokes aside, I think that honestly both pronunciations are canon: you know that people in the Clerk's Ward are not going to pronounce words the same way as the berks down in the Hive.
Just because it's canon doesn't mean the people who pronounce it with a hard 'g' aren't worshippers of Lolth. 😜
did you really just suggest that they've lolth their minds?
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Jokes aside, the original creator of the setting called it "Siggle". You do you though, I also learned it as Sijill.
Sigil is an actual word. Means Seal, and is from old english. That predates all of D&D. The setting also predates the guy writing the current book, best I can tell is it was from 1995, late TSR era. So he is neither the creator of the setting, nor the one who named Sigil.
1st mention was the TSR Novel "Masquerades" from 1995 & "The Sword of the Dales (adventure)" from 1995.
I think, that bit was just to cause trouble and meme a split in the community for engagement. It's dumb, unlike Gif vs Gif, and the joke recently with Giff vs Giff, the pronunciation for Sigil is clear.
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages
Sigil
sig·il
/ˈsijəl/
noun
an inscribed or painted symbol considered to have magical power.
ARCHAIC
a seal.
"the supply wains bore the High King's sigil"
LITERARY
a sign or symbol.
"a 1925 Buick limousine, the sigil of Tom's naturalization"
W: Regarding the pronouncing of “Sigil”, it seems you had the possible mis-pronunciation in mind. In the first box set, one of the quotes is about a Guvner sentencing a prime to death because he pronounced sigil sijil.
DZC: Yeah, we went with the “mispronunciation” (because I think I mispronounced it that way) although both are technically correct. The quote was a poke at the pronounciation problem, a very small in joke.
The world sigil came from Late sigilium and would at one point also have been pronounced with a hard g. Over time, however, the sound was palatalised and become the affricate soft “g” we know now today. Perhaps this change simply never occurred in Sigil.
Jokes aside, the original creator of the setting called it "Siggle". You do you though, I also learned it as Sijill.
Sigil is an actual word. Means Seal, and is from old english. That predates all of D&D. The setting also predates the guy writing the current book, best I can tell is it was from 1995, late TSR era. So he is neither the creator of the setting, nor the one who named Sigil.
1st mention was the TSR Novel "Masquerades" from 1995 & "The Sword of the Dales (adventure)" from 1995.
I think, that bit was just to cause trouble and meme a split in the community for engagement. It's dumb, unlike Gif vs Gif, and the joke recently with Giff vs Giff, the pronunciation for Sigil is clear.
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages
Sigil
sig·il
/ˈsijəl/
noun
an inscribed or painted symbol considered to have magical power.
ARCHAIC
a seal.
"the supply wains bore the High King's sigil"
LITERARY
a sign or symbol.
"a 1925 Buick limousine, the sigil of Tom's naturalization"
Yes, but proper nouns can be pronounced differently than common nouns with the same spelling.
It's also funny to see SOOO many people getting worked up over the pronunciation of a city's name! Pronounce it however you want in your game. Within original canon products, throughout the video game, and in the Player's Primer to the Outlands audio CD, it is always pronounced with a hard-G. If you don't like it, that's fine, pronounce it differently. I pronounce 'Cyre' different than Keith Baker, and 'Drow' different than Gary Gygax. It's pretty silly people trying to correct writers on the pronunciation of a make-believe fantasy city's name. LOL! Just say it however you want. :)
(Oh, and I believe it first appeared in the 1994 Planescape Campaign Setting boxed set that started the entire product line. )
This reads to me as an example of something that happens pretty frequently in the fandom/nerddom community (and used to be even more prevalent before the Internet made multimedia content for cool/nerdy media commonplace): someone knowing a somewhat archaic word from reading but being mistaken about its pronunciation. People rhyming "harbinger" with "singer," "lyre" with "fear," or "hyperbole" with "viper bowl" were examples I remember encountering a few times.
If the creator encountered and liked the word "sigil" without a clear pronunciation guide in the years before Planescape was published, that would be unsurprising. More surprising would be them intentionally rhyming the name of the city with "wiggle" or "jiggle" without humorous intent, unless they thought that was how the cool magic symbol word was also pronounced.
All of which is speculative. Maybe the creator had never encountered the word "sigil," or they did and thought using that identical spelling of "sigil" (which they knew rhymed with vigil) and a name that brought "giggle" to mind for most English speakers hearing it was the ideal naming approach.
So watching the official videos talking about the forthcoming Planescape releases, we learn that the Senior Game Designer for the books insists that the city of Sigil is pronounced as if it were spelled "Siggle."
Look, I learned to be flexible in doing away with racially-based ASIs.
I've worked hard on being open-minded on removing forced evil alignments from certain humanoids.
I've embraced a good number of rules changes in the staggered UA playtests.
But this...this is a bridge too far. I can't do it. "Sigil" will always, ALWAYS be pronounced SIJ-ill. * shakes fist at screen *
Jokes aside, the original creator of the setting called it "Siggle". You do you though, I also learned it as Sijill.
DM for life by choice, biggest fan of D&D specifically.
As a word, the proper pronunciation in English is "sijel".
Going back to the original, with Cook's team really pushing it, I still recall hearing all of them use the soft J, and a couple using the hard G.
for me, it will always be the soft j, just as gif will always be a hard g, lol.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I grew up next to a town named Sigel, also pronounced "sigg-il", but I agree that not pronouncing this as "sijel" is very hard for me.
I’ll be pronouncing it ˈsijəl, since that is how I have always pronounced it and how everyone I know pronounces it.
But I fully admit my pronunciation is wrong and "Siggle” is correct. And, to be frank, if someone from Wizards was pronouncing it ˈsijəl… that would cause me to lose some faith in the product. I am very comfortable with me and everyone I know pronouncing it with the English pronunciation, but the people making the product should know enough to use the D&D pronunciation.
The Sigil Shibboleth is upon us.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Mercer got dragged because he was mispronouncing the actual English word, which has only one pronunciation, not because he was talking about the city in the Outlands.
You are a hero to us all. 😜
It's pronounced Throat Warbler Mangrove.
Jokes aside, I think that honestly both pronunciations are canon: you know that people in the Clerk's Ward are not going to pronounce words the same way as the berks down in the Hive.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Just because it's canon doesn't mean the people who pronounce it with a hard 'g' aren't secretly worshippers of Lolth. 😜
did you really just suggest that they've lolth their minds?
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Lolth really doesn't seem to be the type to favor hard Gs. Go for someone like Hruggek.
Agreed.
Sigil is an actual word. Means Seal, and is from old english. That predates all of D&D. The setting also predates the guy writing the current book, best I can tell is it was from 1995, late TSR era. So he is neither the creator of the setting, nor the one who named Sigil.
1st mention was the TSR Novel "Masquerades" from 1995 & "The Sword of the Dales (adventure)" from 1995.
I think, that bit was just to cause trouble and meme a split in the community for engagement. It's dumb, unlike Gif vs Gif, and the joke recently with Giff vs Giff, the pronunciation for Sigil is clear.
I reached out to Zeb Cook, the original creator of the setting, and he says he’s always said “sijil.”
Zeeb Cook himself Q&A
W: Regarding the pronouncing of “Sigil”, it seems you had the possible mis-pronunciation in mind. In the first box set, one of the quotes is about a Guvner sentencing a prime to death because he pronounced sigil sijil.
DZC: Yeah, we went with the “mispronunciation” (because I think I mispronounced it that way) although both are technically correct. The quote was a poke at the pronounciation problem, a very small in joke.
https://www.theweem.com/2010/09/qa-with-david-zeb-cook-2001/
About the genesys of the word
The world sigil came from Late sigilium and would at one point also have been pronounced with a hard g. Over time, however, the sound was palatalised and become the affricate soft “g” we know now today. Perhaps this change simply never occurred in Sigil.
Yes, but proper nouns can be pronounced differently than common nouns with the same spelling.
It's also funny to see SOOO many people getting worked up over the pronunciation of a city's name! Pronounce it however you want in your game. Within original canon products, throughout the video game, and in the Player's Primer to the Outlands audio CD, it is always pronounced with a hard-G. If you don't like it, that's fine, pronounce it differently. I pronounce 'Cyre' different than Keith Baker, and 'Drow' different than Gary Gygax. It's pretty silly people trying to correct writers on the pronunciation of a make-believe fantasy city's name. LOL! Just say it however you want. :)
(Oh, and I believe it first appeared in the 1994 Planescape Campaign Setting boxed set that started the entire product line. )
This reads to me as an example of something that happens pretty frequently in the fandom/nerddom community (and used to be even more prevalent before the Internet made multimedia content for cool/nerdy media commonplace): someone knowing a somewhat archaic word from reading but being mistaken about its pronunciation.
People rhyming "harbinger" with "singer," "lyre" with "fear," or "hyperbole" with "viper bowl" were examples I remember encountering a few times.
If the creator encountered and liked the word "sigil" without a clear pronunciation guide in the years before Planescape was published, that would be unsurprising. More surprising would be them intentionally rhyming the name of the city with "wiggle" or "jiggle" without humorous intent, unless they thought that was how the cool magic symbol word was also pronounced.
All of which is speculative. Maybe the creator had never encountered the word "sigil," or they did and thought using that identical spelling of "sigil" (which they knew rhymed with vigil) and a name that brought "giggle" to mind for most English speakers hearing it was the ideal naming approach.
Bold is all I needed to know - thanks!
I'll be pornounceriating it Sil-Gee-al pacifically like Aluminium.
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