Almost all of the starter equipment packages come with a backpack and it only holds 30lbs. Even without the 10lbs of rope a starting adventurer's backpack is overloaded by rations alone.
Why? Why aren't backpacks 60lbs, sacks 30lbs and pouches 6lbs? As a DM I constantly have to buy sacks for my players and shift their equipment around to avoid bursting containers and it does add some item management issues for exploration which is fun. None the less a 50lbs-60lbs backpack makes more sense considering the weight of most starting packages.
It aggravates me.
I've never had that problem. As far as I am concerned the players have the necessary items before the they move out, unless they want something specific (nets, whips etc.).
Diplomat's Pack: 36 pounds. The backpack itself is 5 pounds, and presumably doesn't count towards its own weight capacity, so inside the bag you have to fit 31 pounds. Take out the chest, which weighs 25 pounds and can hold 300 pounds. Why are you carrying that everywhere in the first place? Now you're down to just 6 pounds. Capacity: 24.
Dungeoneer's Pack: 61.5 pounds, or 56.5 excluding the bag. Wow! That's almost twice the capacity of the bag! But it has 10 days of rations (20 pounds) and 50 feet of rope (10 pounds that can hang on the side and not contribute to the weight limit), so if you take that stuff out, it's 26.5 pounds. Room enough to haul a day's worth of rations on your person. Put the rest in a cart, you madman. Why are you trying to haul 20 pounds of food through a dungeon. Capacity: 3.5.
Entertainer's Pack (not coded in Beyond as its own thing): backpack is 5. Bedroll 7, two costumes 8, five days' rations 10, waterskin 5, disguise kit 3. So that's 33 pounds plus the 5 pound bag. Remove the rations and it's a nice 13. Capacity: 17.
Explorer's Pack: 59 pounds. Again, 54, and again, remove the rations (20) and rope (10) and you're golden (24). Capacity: 6.
Priest's Pack: 24 pounds, which is actually 19. No problems, and you can also remove 4 pounds of rations. Capacity: 15.
Scholar's Pack: 10 pounds, which is actually 5. Easy. Capacity: 25.
Burglar's Pack: 47.5, or actually 42.5 pounds. Remove the rope, 37.5. This is the first one where I don't see a clean way to get everything in there. You could lose the climbing gear (8 pounds) and keep the rations (10 pounds) or vice versa, but what if you need to scale a mountain in your travels? Idk. Capacity: Let's say 2.5.
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
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Now let's add the other starting gear. I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
Artificers get a light crossbow (5), and two simple weapons. The heaviest simple weapon is a greatclub at 10 pounds. If you took two of those for some reason then you would certainly encounter problems with your mandatory dungeoneer's pack. You have 2.5 pounds to work with after your 1-pound thieves' tools, not 20. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Barbarians get a martial melee weapon, pike's the heaviest at 18, and either two handaxes (4) or a simple (greatclub is 10). So you need to get 18 pounds worth of polearm into your 6-capacity explorer's pack, along with four javelins (8). That's not going to work. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Bards get a simple weapon, which they're choosing greatclub (10), plus a musical instrument (dulcimer is 10) and a dagger (1). They can choose an entertainer's pack (13 free) or diplomat's (24 free). They should pick the diplomat's pack if they want to have the heaviest items possible. They'll have 3 extra pounds. Load-bearing: PASS.
Clerics get either a mace or warhammer, and the mace is heavier at 4 pounds. However, carrying a holy symbol in one hand and a mace in the other, they can actually put their shield (6) in the bag instead, netting 2 whole pounds. They get a simple weapon so they'll take the 10 pound greatclub. Their pack is either the explorer's (6) or the priest's (11). Neither is enough for the 16 pounds they decided to take. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Druids can take a shield. Shields weigh 6 pounds. Or they can get a 10-pound greatclub. Then they can pick another greatclub, and a druidic focus (heaviest one's 4 pounds). That's 20 pounds of crap if they're holding their focus, and their bag is the explorer's pack, which has 6 pounds free. Egads! A woeful day for the two-greatclub druid. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Fighters can choose armor or a longbow, but a longbow can occupy both hands and the armor can't. Two martial weapons? Hey, baby, that's two 18 pound pikes. A light crossbow or two handaxes... the crossbow wins at 5 pounds. He's holding his lightest weapon, the longbow, so he's hauling 41 pounds of weapons in his choice of explorer's pack (6) or dungeoneer's pack (3.5). Sadly, two pikes just doesn't fly for the unfortunate fighter. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Monks get a simple weapon (greatclub, 10), ten darts (2.5), and either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Paladin, two 18-pound pikes in the tradition of the fighter, plus 10-pound greatclub, plus the heaviest holy symbol at 2 pounds. Pack: Priest's (11) or explorer's (6). Reliquary in hand means he can't use any of his weapons, so into the bag they go, for 46 pounds. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Ranger! Two greatclubs is 20 pounds, great start. Longbow is only 2. You can tell the ranger is a bow expert because he's the first one who gets a quiver for his arrows. Everyone else jams them into their boots or through their hair. His packs are dungeoneer's (3.5) or explorer's (6). Neither is enough for his two mighty greatclubs, sadly. And as we all know, a ranger without two non-dual-wieldable greatclubs is hardly a ranger at all. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Rogue gets a rapier or a shortsword, and they both weigh 2 pounds. A shortbow (2) (with a quiver!), two daggers (2), tools (1), and a vast three choices of pack for his 5 pounds of crap to go in: Burglar's (already overstuffed), dungeoneer's (3.5), or explorer's (6). The rogue actually can't go any lower than this on his starting gear. He has to take the explorer's pack, or leave stuff behind. Load-bearing: PASS.
Sorcerer gets the ol' 10 pound greatclub, two 1-pound daggers, and an arcane focus, of which the heaviest is the 4-pound staff. Let's say he's dual-wielding daggers so he has to put the staff AND the greatclub in his bag, which of course is either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. 6 is not equal to or greater than 14, I asked the wizard. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Warlock can also have the greatclub and the staff, but he can actually take a second greatclub, putting his haul up to a mighty 24 pounds if he also dual-wields starting daggers. Very cool. Pack options are the rare scholar's pack (25), or the dungeoneer's pack (3.5). He's A-OK if he takes the scholar's pack! And what scholar doesn't carry two greatclubs everywhere he goes? Load-bearing: PASS.
Finally the Wizard. 4-pound staff is a poor start, but he can wisely take another 4-pound staff, so that's fun. A spellbook weighs 3 pounds, and his packs are scholar's (25) or explorer's (6). Only one will hold his colossal 7 pounds of precious arcane accoutrements. Load-bearing: PASS.
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Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
The Monster Hunter's Pack comes with the Haunted One background from The Curse of Strahd at least that is where I saw it first, shows to be in the Basic Rules according to the haunted one link but I wasn't able to find it. ETA: I did find it in Van Richten's Guide To Ravenloft
As for all the writing, thanks it is very handy.
Maybe someone should ask the Crawdad on social media for some clarification on backpacks?
A bedroll would be strapped to the outside of the pack, freeing up more space inside.
Assuming that's accurate, you can add a nice 7 pounds of capacity to the entertainer's pack (17 -> 24) and explorer's pack (6 -> 13). This would allow the Monk to pass, but doesn't make a difference for anyone else.
Diplomat's Pack: 36 pounds. The backpack itself is 5 pounds, and presumably doesn't count towards its own weight capacity, so inside the bag you have to fit 31 pounds. Take out the chest, which weighs 25 pounds and can hold 300 pounds. Why are you carrying that everywhere in the first place? Now you're down to just 6 pounds. Capacity: 24.
Dungeoneer's Pack: 61.5 pounds, or 56.5 excluding the bag. Wow! That's almost twice the capacity of the bag! But it has 10 days of rations (20 pounds) and 50 feet of rope (10 pounds that can hang on the side and not contribute to the weight limit), so if you take that stuff out, it's 26.5 pounds. Room enough to haul a day's worth of rations on your person. Put the rest in a cart, you madman. Why are you trying to haul 20 pounds of food through a dungeon. Capacity: 3.5.
Entertainer's Pack (not coded in Beyond as its own thing): backpack is 5. Bedroll 7, two costumes 8, five days' rations 10, waterskin 5, disguise kit 3. So that's 33 pounds plus the 5 pound bag. Remove the rations and it's a nice 13. Capacity: 17.
Explorer's Pack: 59 pounds. Again, 54, and again, remove the rations (20) and rope (10) and you're golden (24). Capacity: 6.
Priest's Pack: 24 pounds, which is actually 19. No problems, and you can also remove 4 pounds of rations. Capacity: 15.
Scholar's Pack: 10 pounds, which is actually 5. Easy. Capacity: 25.
Burglar's Pack: 47.5, or actually 42.5 pounds. Remove the rope, 37.5. This is the first one where I don't see a clean way to get everything in there. You could lose the climbing gear (8 pounds) and keep the rations (10 pounds) or vice versa, but what if you need to scale a mountain in your travels? Idk. Capacity: Let's say 2.5.
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
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Now let's add the other starting gear. I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
Artificers get a light crossbow (5), and two simple weapons. The heaviest simple weapon is a greatclub at 10 pounds. If you took two of those for some reason then you would certainly encounter problems with your mandatory dungeoneer's pack. You have 2.5 pounds to work with after your 1-pound thieves' tools, not 20. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Barbarians get a martial melee weapon, pike's the heaviest at 18, and either two handaxes (4) or a simple (greatclub is 10). So you need to get 18 pounds worth of polearm into your 6-capacity explorer's pack, along with four javelins (8). That's not going to work. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Bards get a simple weapon, which they're choosing greatclub (10), plus a musical instrument (dulcimer is 10) and a dagger (1). They can choose an entertainer's pack (13 free) or diplomat's (24 free). They should pick the diplomat's pack if they want to have the heaviest items possible. They'll have 3 extra pounds. Load-bearing: PASS.
Clerics get either a mace or warhammer, and the mace is heavier at 4 pounds.They get a simple weapon so they'll take the 10 pound greatclub. Their pack is either the explorer's (6) or the priest's (11). Neither is enough. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Druids are the first ones who get a shield. Shields weigh 6 pounds. Or they can get a 10-pound greatclub. Then they can pick another greatclub, and a druidic focus (heaviest one's 4 pounds). That's 20 pounds of crap if they're holding their focus, and their bag is the explorer's pack, which has 6 pounds free. Egads! A woeful day for the two-greatclub druid. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Fighters can choose armor or a longbow, but a longbow can occupy both hands and the armor can't. Two martial weapons? Hey, baby, that's two 18 pound pikes. A light crossbow or two handaxes... the crossbow wins at 5 pounds. He's holding his lightest weapon, the longbow, so he's hauling 41 pounds of weapons in his choice of explorer's pack (6) or dungeoneer's pack (3.5). Sadly, two pikes just doesn't fly for the unfortunate fighter. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Monks get a simple weapon (greatclub, 10), ten darts (2.5), and either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Paladin, 18-pound pike, plus 10-pound greatclub, plus the heaviest holy symbol at 2 pounds. Pack: Priest's (11) or explorer's (6). He's gonna have problems even if he carries his greatclub in his hands. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Ranger! Two greatclubs is 20 pounds, great start. Longbow is only 2. You can tell the ranger is a bow expert because he's the first one who gets a quiver for his arrows. Everyone else jams them into their boots or through their hair. His packs are dungeoneer's (3.5) or explorer's (6). Neither is enough for his two mighty greatclubs, sadly. And as we all know, a ranger without two non-dual-wieldable greatclubs is hardly a ranger at all. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Rogue gets a rapier or a shortsword, and they both weigh 2 pounds. A shortbow (2) (with a quiver!), two daggers (2), tools (1), and a vast three choices of pack for his 5 pounds of crap to go in: Burglar's (already overstuffed), dungeoneer's (3.5), or explorer's (6). The rogue actually can't go any lower than this on his starting gear. He has to take the explorer's pack, or leave stuff behind. Load-bearing: PASS.
Sorcerer gets the ol' 10 pound greatclub, two 1-pound daggers, and an arcane focus, of which the heaviest is the 4-pound staff. Let's say he's dual-wielding daggers so he has to put the staff AND the greatclub in his bag, which of course is either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. 6 is not equal to or greater than 14, I asked the wizard. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Warlock can also have the greatclub and the staff, but he can actually take a second greatclub, putting his haul up to a mighty 24 pounds if he also dual-wields starting daggers. Very cool. Pack options are the rare scholar's pack (25), or the dungeoneer's pack (3.5). He's A-OK if he takes the scholar's pack! And what scholar doesn't carry two greatclubs everywhere he goes? Load-bearing: PASS.
Finally the Wizard. 4-pound staff is a poor start, but he can wisely take another 4-pound staff, so that's fun. A spellbook weighs 3 pounds, and his packs are scholar's (25) or explorer's (6). Only one will hold his colossal 7 pounds of precious arcane accoutrements. Load-bearing: PASS.
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Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
question? Are you stuffing everything into the backpacks?
a majority of people carry only the most valuable and important items of survival usually in their backpacks, and more used and readily available accessible items somewhere close and outside of the cargo container on their back.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
[...]
Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
question? Are you stuffing everything into the backpacks?
Yeah. See above, and see the OP on page 1. This is a response to that.
a majority of people carry only the most valuable and important items of survival usually in their backpacks, and more used and readily available accessible items somewhere close and outside of the cargo container on their back.
I agree. I suggest at the very least taking most of your rations out and putting them somewhere like a cart. In fact you have to leave something behind, unless you can somehow create a massive tower of stuff that you just carry in your arms, in which case you're gonna have some real trouble fighting. I also make the assumption in my analysis that anyone who has arrows or bolts is allowed to carry them outside the backpack somewhere. It's not specified where, but I feel that's fair. You could probably do the same with daggers and handaxes, possibly even shortswords and rapiers, but I didn't want to get into all that. But leaving something behind isn't the same thing as losing it forever. I mean, I guess it might be the same, if your DM is really preposterously harsh.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
EH?
Need your source on that. Definitely wasn't that way in 1e. 2e. or earlier. Always is a pretty broad term.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Well I'll be danged. Homes did indeed put that right there. I apologize.
However, that still doesn't qualify for always, and since 5e is built on the AD&D chassis, isn't applicable.
But yes, in Basic, prior to the early 80's revision (which did not apply the same basis), and after the initial release (which did not have that as a basis), it was indeed 300 gp weight.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Neat! It's more complicated now. From the Basic Rules (Ch 5, Wealth > Coinage):
A standard coin weighs about a third of an ounce, so fifty coins weigh a pound.
If one pound is 50 coins, 30 pounds is 1,500 coins! For 1500 coins to amount to 300gp, each coin would need to be worth a fifth of a gold? Am I doing my math right? Clearly we don't have any coin that's worth a fifth of a gold, so you'd have to have at least two different kinds of coins, and... ugh. I am not solving that.
But anyway, that's going back quite a ways, with the rules saying that 30lbs is the reasonable amount for a backpack. I wonder if anyone was hollering about it back then, too. I bet they were.
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Well I'll be danged. Homes did indeed put that right there. I apologize.
However, that still doesn't qualify for always, and since 5e is built on the AD&D chassis, isn't applicable.
But yes, in Basic, prior to the early 80's revision (which did not apply the same basis), and after the initial release (which did not have that as a basis), it was indeed 300 gp weight.
No harm , no foul. Really, current edition is pretty much same as then. Backpacks are cubic foot space limit and 30lbs capacity, and coin weight is the same 10 coin per lb.
item weight was measured in relation to coin weight, but players and dms’ had to agree to dimensional shape for storage purposes.
And just as back then, one ether had to play Tetris when packing gear, or have an small army of henchmen to carry treasure back to base.
Or you could buy a donkey or mule. Of course every time our party does that the DM kills it. Trolls got one, Dragon got two, one ran off when we forgot to have someone hold it during a random encounter.
Yea, dragon would get pissed they got two meals that came with camping tents and spare rope bags.
meanwhile, sleeping in wet rain without shelter was fun.
10 coin to a lb is like a coin that’s 1.6 ounces. what about the size of a single silver dollar coin, or close to it, size of a large poker chip?
with that realistic dimension, 300 coin doesn’t really compute, but then much of the mechanics of any storage and dimensional structure is bare bones and best left to homebrewing better solutions.
better backpacks may very well exist or be created, so I run things where backpacks can hold 45lbs of weight, and sharp edges have to be covered or user has a 10% chance of backpack getting torn and has a chance of getting destroyed by tear, based on factors.
then trying to compare backpack weight and dimensions to other containers, that’s been madly debated then just as it’s questioned now.
I always buy a belt and several pouches to carry the stuff I need at hand and fast.
A few sacks to carry what i find along the way.
Trade out some of that starting equipment for what you want.
Pole arms can only be carried either in your hands or on a vehicle of some type. 10 foot poles are even harder to carry around. Try it one day.
If you just want a bigger backpack just talk to your DM and work it out. Just remember these are simple backpacks and not some sherpas' load bearing pack. And there are no quick release fasteners in D&D to make fighting easy,
My group doesn't bother to track weight. Most of us played as far back as 2e. We know how to track ammo, and weight and all that other crap. That said, none of us /enjoy/ it. We feel it doesn't add to our enjoyment to track it, so we don't. Also, we handwave packing the bags, and the DM usually gives us a bag of holding at the first reasonable opportunity so we don't feel like we need to spend any thought on it.
There have been zero complaints about not tracking our rations, ammo or weight.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Or you could buy a donkey or mule. Of course every time our party does that the DM kills it. Trolls got one, Dragon got two, one ran off when we forgot to have someone hold it during a random encounter.
Backup mule. You bring one along as bait, y'see.
The absolute void of player moves that you can use to defend another creature from harm means that a targeted pack animal is basically just gonna die. Same with NPCs unless they have a ton of HP for some reason. You can play a "defend the innocent" Paladin all you like, but you can't protect them. All you can do is kill the things that want to kill them, if you go first in the turn order. And you can make sad puppy dog eyes at the DM in a ploy to convince them to throw you a bone.
Unasked-for opinions below:
What you can do is limit the exposure your pack animal has to combat. Scouts to trigger or disarm ambushes ahead of you. Use your skills to find, or possibly use your magic to create, safe hiding places and natural deterrents. Actively create a reputation as people who are not to be trifled with. Be careful what routes you take. Find foul-smelling stuff to ward off predators. Maybe use magic to predict the weather so you don't have your camoflauge washed away or go out in the rain in giant-evil-earthworm territory. Pray to the gods of safe travel and stealth. Make offerings to them. Hire guides. Be prepared to negotiate with bandits and intelligent predators. Take on side work to avoid trouble.
Or, you can just ignore encumbrance and throw everything into Hammerspace and quickly begin flat-out skipping the part between the town and the dungeon. You won't typically find any trouble on the road that can kill you, and since you don't have any pack animals to look after, you're golden. Take whatever damage you take, and heal it all off the next morning. Your supplies will never be threatened, so you never have to worry about gathering food. Your stuff will never get stolen, so you'll only ever accumulate more and more wealth until you reach a point where you can either buy a town or the DM can agree to let you shop for a magic sword. And most importantly of all, you'll never be forced to contend with what you do and don't want to actually take into a situation. You can just have everything you've ever laid your hands on. Put it all in one big contiguous list. Your Inventory, available at all times, immune to all danger.
Yeah again my characters just have basically Skyrim inventories. Unlimited size until you hit the weight limit. Most campaigns I don’t even use encumbrance anyway…
same with travel time. I just say “you walk for a while and now you’re there”.
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Back on topic please, this thread is about backpacks in the rules of D&D fifth edition
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I've never had that problem. As far as I am concerned the players have the necessary items before the they move out, unless they want something specific (nets, whips etc.).
First, the packs!
Diplomat's Pack: 36 pounds. The backpack itself is 5 pounds, and presumably doesn't count towards its own weight capacity, so inside the bag you have to fit 31 pounds. Take out the chest, which weighs 25 pounds and can hold 300 pounds. Why are you carrying that everywhere in the first place? Now you're down to just 6 pounds. Capacity: 24.
Dungeoneer's Pack: 61.5 pounds, or 56.5 excluding the bag. Wow! That's almost twice the capacity of the bag! But it has 10 days of rations (20 pounds) and 50 feet of rope (10 pounds that can hang on the side and not contribute to the weight limit), so if you take that stuff out, it's 26.5 pounds. Room enough to haul a day's worth of rations on your person. Put the rest in a cart, you madman. Why are you trying to haul 20 pounds of food through a dungeon. Capacity: 3.5.
Entertainer's Pack (not coded in Beyond as its own thing): backpack is 5. Bedroll 7, two costumes 8, five days' rations 10, waterskin 5, disguise kit 3. So that's 33 pounds plus the 5 pound bag. Remove the rations and it's a nice 13. Capacity: 17.
Explorer's Pack: 59 pounds. Again, 54, and again, remove the rations (20) and rope (10) and you're golden (24). Capacity: 6.
Priest's Pack: 24 pounds, which is actually 19. No problems, and you can also remove 4 pounds of rations. Capacity: 15.
Scholar's Pack: 10 pounds, which is actually 5. Easy. Capacity: 25.
Burglar's Pack: 47.5, or actually 42.5 pounds. Remove the rope, 37.5. This is the first one where I don't see a clean way to get everything in there. You could lose the climbing gear (8 pounds) and keep the rations (10 pounds) or vice versa, but what if you need to scale a mountain in your travels? Idk. Capacity: Let's say 2.5.
Monster Hunter's Pack (I don't think I've ever seen this one!): 49 pounds, and actually no backpack. Instead you get a 25 pound chest that can hold 300 pounds. Capacity: 300.
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Now let's add the other starting gear. I'll assume you are always choosing the heaviest options, and carrying the lightest load you can in your hands. (If your only other weapon is a two-hander, you're allowed to have merely a single one-hander in hand. Makes sense?) I will score each class on its "load-bearing potential": It passes if you can fit everything (see previous) in at least one of the starter backpacks (minus rations and rope). Otherwise it fails.
Artificers get a light crossbow (5), and two simple weapons. The heaviest simple weapon is a greatclub at 10 pounds. If you took two of those for some reason then you would certainly encounter problems with your mandatory dungeoneer's pack. You have 2.5 pounds to work with after your 1-pound thieves' tools, not 20. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Barbarians get a martial melee weapon, pike's the heaviest at 18, and either two handaxes (4) or a simple (greatclub is 10). So you need to get 18 pounds worth of polearm into your 6-capacity explorer's pack, along with four javelins (8). That's not going to work. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Bards get a simple weapon, which they're choosing greatclub (10), plus a musical instrument (dulcimer is 10) and a dagger (1). They can choose an entertainer's pack (13 free) or diplomat's (24 free). They should pick the diplomat's pack if they want to have the heaviest items possible. They'll have 3 extra pounds. Load-bearing: PASS.
Clerics get either a mace or warhammer, and the mace is heavier at 4 pounds. However, carrying a holy symbol in one hand and a mace in the other, they can actually put their shield (6) in the bag instead, netting 2 whole pounds. They get a simple weapon so they'll take the 10 pound greatclub. Their pack is either the explorer's (6) or the priest's (11). Neither is enough for the 16 pounds they decided to take. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Druids can take a shield. Shields weigh 6 pounds. Or they can get a 10-pound greatclub. Then they can pick another greatclub, and a druidic focus (heaviest one's 4 pounds). That's 20 pounds of crap if they're holding their focus, and their bag is the explorer's pack, which has 6 pounds free. Egads! A woeful day for the two-greatclub druid. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Fighters can choose armor or a longbow, but a longbow can occupy both hands and the armor can't. Two martial weapons? Hey, baby, that's two 18 pound pikes. A light crossbow or two handaxes... the crossbow wins at 5 pounds. He's holding his lightest weapon, the longbow, so he's hauling 41 pounds of weapons in his choice of explorer's pack (6) or dungeoneer's pack (3.5). Sadly, two pikes just doesn't fly for the unfortunate fighter. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Monks get a simple weapon (greatclub, 10), ten darts (2.5), and either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Paladin, two 18-pound pikes in the tradition of the fighter, plus 10-pound greatclub, plus the heaviest holy symbol at 2 pounds. Pack: Priest's (11) or explorer's (6). Reliquary in hand means he can't use any of his weapons, so into the bag they go, for 46 pounds. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Ranger! Two greatclubs is 20 pounds, great start. Longbow is only 2. You can tell the ranger is a bow expert because he's the first one who gets a quiver for his arrows. Everyone else jams them into their boots or through their hair. His packs are dungeoneer's (3.5) or explorer's (6). Neither is enough for his two mighty greatclubs, sadly. And as we all know, a ranger without two non-dual-wieldable greatclubs is hardly a ranger at all. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Rogue gets a rapier or a shortsword, and they both weigh 2 pounds. A shortbow (2) (with a quiver!), two daggers (2), tools (1), and a vast three choices of pack for his 5 pounds of crap to go in: Burglar's (already overstuffed), dungeoneer's (3.5), or explorer's (6). The rogue actually can't go any lower than this on his starting gear. He has to take the explorer's pack, or leave stuff behind. Load-bearing: PASS.
Sorcerer gets the ol' 10 pound greatclub, two 1-pound daggers, and an arcane focus, of which the heaviest is the 4-pound staff. Let's say he's dual-wielding daggers so he has to put the staff AND the greatclub in his bag, which of course is either the 3.5-capacity dungeoneer's pack or the 6-capacity explorer's pack. 6 is not equal to or greater than 14, I asked the wizard. Load-bearing: FAIL.
Warlock can also have the greatclub and the staff, but he can actually take a second greatclub, putting his haul up to a mighty 24 pounds if he also dual-wields starting daggers. Very cool. Pack options are the rare scholar's pack (25), or the dungeoneer's pack (3.5). He's A-OK if he takes the scholar's pack! And what scholar doesn't carry two greatclubs everywhere he goes? Load-bearing: PASS.
Finally the Wizard. 4-pound staff is a poor start, but he can wisely take another 4-pound staff, so that's fun. A spellbook weighs 3 pounds, and his packs are scholar's (25) or explorer's (6). Only one will hold his colossal 7 pounds of precious arcane accoutrements. Load-bearing: PASS.
---
Of the 13 classes, 4 can pick all the heaviest options and still fit all their starter gear into one 30-pound-capacity backpack as long as they don't insist on carrying all their rations at all times. 9 can't. If these min-maxers would stop hoarding the obviously-most-optimal greatclubs and pikes, not only would they all get to pass my very important test (I think?), but they'd also get to take some food into the dungeon with them. This just goes to show that players are too obsessed with raw power (a phrase which here means "having two gigantic polearm weapons that they're not even using"). Shameful.
Conclusion! I don't know, draw your own conclusions. Haven't I written enough?
A bedroll would be strapped to the outside of the pack, freeing up more space inside.
The Monster Hunter's Pack comes with the Haunted One background from The Curse of Strahd at least that is where I saw it first, shows to be in the Basic Rules according to the haunted one link but I wasn't able to find it. ETA: I did find it in Van Richten's Guide To Ravenloft
As for all the writing, thanks it is very handy.
Maybe someone should ask the Crawdad on social media for some clarification on backpacks?
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Assuming that's accurate, you can add a nice 7 pounds of capacity to the entertainer's pack (17 -> 24) and explorer's pack (6 -> 13). This would allow the Monk to pass, but doesn't make a difference for anyone else.
question? Are you stuffing everything into the backpacks?
a majority of people carry only the most valuable and important items of survival usually in their backpacks, and more used and readily available accessible items somewhere close and outside of the cargo container on their back.
and the space available for items in a backpack has always be based on the weight of 300 coins, meaning the most an average wizard could carry and not die from work damage.
Yeah. See above, and see the OP on page 1. This is a response to that.
I agree. I suggest at the very least taking most of your rations out and putting them somewhere like a cart. In fact you have to leave something behind, unless you can somehow create a massive tower of stuff that you just carry in your arms, in which case you're gonna have some real trouble fighting. I also make the assumption in my analysis that anyone who has arrows or bolts is allowed to carry them outside the backpack somewhere. It's not specified where, but I feel that's fair. You could probably do the same with daggers and handaxes, possibly even shortswords and rapiers, but I didn't want to get into all that. But leaving something behind isn't the same thing as losing it forever. I mean, I guess it might be the same, if your DM is really preposterously harsh.
Interesting. Source?
EH?
Need your source on that. Definitely wasn't that way in 1e. 2e. or earlier. Always is a pretty broad term.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
1978 Holmes basic, pg9 right hand section: ENCUMBRANCE
A back pack or sack w ill hold weight which equals approximately 300 gold pieces. For game purposes all forms of coins weigh the same. A character carrying 300 gold pieces would not be considered to be heavily loaded — assuming that the other equipment he or she carried was not excessive — for 300 gold pieces are assumed to weigh about 30 pounds.
Well I'll be danged. Homes did indeed put that right there. I apologize.
However, that still doesn't qualify for always, and since 5e is built on the AD&D chassis, isn't applicable.
But yes, in Basic, prior to the early 80's revision (which did not apply the same basis), and after the initial release (which did not have that as a basis), it was indeed 300 gp weight.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I'm certain he'd say something that broadly misses the point, like "a character can carry as much as their Strength score allows!"
Neat! It's more complicated now. From the Basic Rules (Ch 5, Wealth > Coinage):
If one pound is 50 coins, 30 pounds is 1,500 coins! For 1500 coins to amount to 300gp, each coin would need to be worth a fifth of a gold? Am I doing my math right? Clearly we don't have any coin that's worth a fifth of a gold, so you'd have to have at least two different kinds of coins, and... ugh. I am not solving that.
But anyway, that's going back quite a ways, with the rules saying that 30lbs is the reasonable amount for a backpack. I wonder if anyone was hollering about it back then, too. I bet they were.
No harm , no foul. Really, current edition is pretty much same as then. Backpacks are cubic foot space limit and 30lbs capacity, and coin weight is the same 10 coin per lb.
item weight was measured in relation to coin weight, but players and dms’ had to agree to dimensional shape for storage purposes.
And just as back then, one ether had to play Tetris when packing gear, or have an small army of henchmen to carry treasure back to base.
Yea, dragon would get pissed they got two meals that came with camping tents and spare rope bags.
meanwhile, sleeping in wet rain without shelter was fun.
10 coin to a lb is like a coin that’s 1.6 ounces. what about the size of a single silver dollar coin, or close to it, size of a large poker chip?
with that realistic dimension, 300 coin doesn’t really compute, but then much of the mechanics of any storage and dimensional structure is bare bones and best left to homebrewing better solutions.
better backpacks may very well exist or be created, so I run things where backpacks can hold 45lbs of weight, and sharp edges have to be covered or user has a 10% chance of backpack getting torn and has a chance of getting destroyed by tear, based on factors.
then trying to compare backpack weight and dimensions to other containers, that’s been madly debated then just as it’s questioned now.
I guess no one starts with cash
I always buy a belt and several pouches to carry the stuff I need at hand and fast.
A few sacks to carry what i find along the way.
Trade out some of that starting equipment for what you want.
Pole arms can only be carried either in your hands or on a vehicle of some type. 10 foot poles are even harder to carry around. Try it one day.
If you just want a bigger backpack just talk to your DM and work it out. Just remember these are simple backpacks and not some sherpas' load bearing pack. And there are no quick release fasteners in D&D to make fighting easy,
A dead pack animal is food. Its a walking meal for those tough times.
My group doesn't bother to track weight. Most of us played as far back as 2e. We know how to track ammo, and weight and all that other crap. That said, none of us /enjoy/ it. We feel it doesn't add to our enjoyment to track it, so we don't. Also, we handwave packing the bags, and the DM usually gives us a bag of holding at the first reasonable opportunity so we don't feel like we need to spend any thought on it.
There have been zero complaints about not tracking our rations, ammo or weight.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Backup mule. You bring one along as bait, y'see.
The absolute void of player moves that you can use to defend another creature from harm means that a targeted pack animal is basically just gonna die. Same with NPCs unless they have a ton of HP for some reason. You can play a "defend the innocent" Paladin all you like, but you can't protect them. All you can do is kill the things that want to kill them, if you go first in the turn order. And you can make sad puppy dog eyes at the DM in a ploy to convince them to throw you a bone.
Unasked-for opinions below:
What you can do is limit the exposure your pack animal has to combat. Scouts to trigger or disarm ambushes ahead of you. Use your skills to find, or possibly use your magic to create, safe hiding places and natural deterrents. Actively create a reputation as people who are not to be trifled with. Be careful what routes you take. Find foul-smelling stuff to ward off predators. Maybe use magic to predict the weather so you don't have your camoflauge washed away or go out in the rain in giant-evil-earthworm territory. Pray to the gods of safe travel and stealth. Make offerings to them. Hire guides. Be prepared to negotiate with bandits and intelligent predators. Take on side work to avoid trouble.
Or, you can just ignore encumbrance and throw everything into Hammerspace and quickly begin flat-out skipping the part between the town and the dungeon. You won't typically find any trouble on the road that can kill you, and since you don't have any pack animals to look after, you're golden. Take whatever damage you take, and heal it all off the next morning. Your supplies will never be threatened, so you never have to worry about gathering food. Your stuff will never get stolen, so you'll only ever accumulate more and more wealth until you reach a point where you can either buy a town or the DM can agree to let you shop for a magic sword. And most importantly of all, you'll never be forced to contend with what you do and don't want to actually take into a situation. You can just have everything you've ever laid your hands on. Put it all in one big contiguous list. Your Inventory, available at all times, immune to all danger.
Undead mounts are pretty safe. Nothing will want to eat them and they tend to have better stats than normal mounts.
Yeah again my characters just have basically Skyrim inventories. Unlimited size until you hit the weight limit. Most campaigns I don’t even use encumbrance anyway…
same with travel time. I just say “you walk for a while and now you’re there”.