I wouldn’t call the OGL situation, AI art controversy, One D&D backpedal, or Pinkertons scare “crises,” but these strange scandals aren’t entirely the fault of our perpetually dissatisfied community.
Well, calling one artist trying to get away with something and getting caught an "AI art controversy" is exactly what I was talking about. Not to mention I have absolutely no clue what you're even referring to by the "One D&D backpedal"
The Pinkerton thing was a bad corporate decision by Hasbro that wasn't even about D&D
The only item on your list that actually had any meaningful impact on the D&D community was the OGL kerfuffle, which while a big deal for third-party content creators, was frankly blown out of proportion within the wider community to further certain political agendas -- and maybe the end result of that was better for everyone in the end, but I am never going to embrace an 'end justifies the means' philosophy, especially when it wasn't the intended end. It was a shitty situation that WOTC manages to stumble its way through and land on a decent resolution
Again, you were the one who said D&D players had been continually "burned, over and over again" by WOTC. How did any of those incidents, whether you want to call them scandals or crises or whatever -- and I'm including the removal of a la carte options on DDB here -- "burn" the average player or DM?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Suddenly everyone is a D&D 3rd party publisher acting like children who can't have everything they point at for nearly free. It wasn't WotC who chose to use AI art (not that it matters at all to me), the OGL business might have been an issue for some 3rd party publishers but not for the vast majority of D&D players and DMs. And however nice the piecemeal deal on DDB it is not like all the other TTRPG companies has it and big evil WotC chose to cancel the deal. If there was no DDB you had to buy the whole book anyway so, to me, it is not an issue at all. I prefer to buy the books and then put together my own "menu" from those books.
Homebrew is a nice feature and something we all use to some extent. The idea that its in the works to get rid of the homebrew and in the long run DDB has no substance at all. There is simply no evidence that says so.
Its an issue because it was really the only distinguishing feature of D&D beyond (along with bundles) and it was why the site was extremely popular to the point that Wotc/Hasbro bought it 2 years ago or so.
Its a big deal when you would never actually buy the book, but would buy a subclass or some other smaller part. Thats money in the company's pocket. Now that they don't offer it...people aren't going to buy the books. And honestly, although I have a campaign and was using the tools (have a subscription) I think I may just cancel and overall go to a different system entirely. Thats more money they lose. Will they continue to gain in the future? Who knows. I do wish them all the best even though i think this was a supreme mistake.
If you are someone who wants to buy the books and support Hasbro/Wotc then that is your decision. Mine is going to be different decision going forward.
"If there was no DDB you had to buy the whole book anyway so, to me, it is not an issue at all." - no...we simply wouldn't buy the book at all. If there was no DDB Hasbro/Wotc would (will) make less money.
Its an issue because it was really the only distinguishing feature of D&D beyond (along with bundles) and it was why the site was extremely popular to the point that Wotc/Hasbro bought it 2 years ago or so.
Its a big deal when you would never actually buy the book, but would buy a subclass or some other smaller part. Thats money in the company's pocket. Now that they don't offer it...people aren't going to buy the books. And honestly, although I have a campaign and was using the tools (have a subscription) I think I may just cancel and overall go to a different system entirely. Thats more money they lose. Will they continue to gain in the future? Who knows. I do wish them all the best even though i think this was a supreme mistake.
If you are someone who wants to buy the books and support Hasbro/Wotc then that is your decision. Mine is going to be different decision going forward.
"If there was no DDB you had to buy the whole book anyway so, to me, it is not an issue at all." - no...we simply wouldn't buy the book at all. If there was no DDB Hasbro/Wotc would (will) make less money.
Right, the cross referencing of the various features throughout the books and general ease of access a website represents over flipping physical pages or scrolling through a giant PDF along with their integration with a character builder and dice roller clearly add no value whatsoever and are just window dressing.
Setting aside the astronomically high DC of future prediction; I don' t think that homebrew is or will be a threat in any way because of the removal of piecemeal purchasing (and hence there is no related reason that WotC would remove it). Sharing homebrew based on published content, WotC's or anyone else's, is clearly against the T&C, which means that people can't content-share homebrewed 'pieces' of official (or otherwise published) content. Also, while I'm aware that there is a lot of illegally published WotC copyrighted material floating around the internet, I suspect that the number of people that would need to track it down and the amount of homebrewing it would take to recreate it for each and every person probably doesn't pose much of a financial threat to WotC/Hasboro.
TL;DR - I don't believe homebrew is currently under threat based on any recent, observable data/information/behavior.
Setting aside the astronomically high DC of future prediction; I don' t think that homebrew is or will be a threat in any way because of the removal of piecemeal purchasing (and hence there is no related reason that WotC would remove it). Sharing homebrew based on published content, WotC's or anyone else's, is clearly against the T&C, which means that people can't content-share homebrewed 'pieces' of official (or otherwise published) content. Also, while I'm aware that there is a lot of illegally published WotC copyrighted material floating around the internet, I suspect that the number of people that would need to track it down and the amount of homebrewing it would take to recreate it for each and every person probably doesn't pose much of a financial threat to WotC/Hasboro.
TL;DR - I don't believe homebrew is currently under threat based on any recent, observable data/information/behavior.
Giving you one free roll of future prediction of a possible future:
Players can't get elements in their game that others have told them about.
Someone creates a homebrew version of the thing, with different name, and far enough apart that it doesn't trigger the similiarity detection.
People a la carte the Homebrew copies of those abilities, subclasses and items
Book sales drop even further.
Hasbro realises what's going on and homebrew dies.
Which is to say, it's not a problem yet...
Homebrew's survival could 100% depend on players doing the right thing by WOTC, and not abusing Homebrew to get around the removal of a la carte. And even I don't think anyone will pass the DC 30 chance to believe that people will do the right thing by WOTC...
Hasbro realises what's going on and homebrew dies. removes the copyrighted material from the homebrew section
FTFY
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Hasbro realises what's going on and homebrew dies. removes the copyrighted material from the homebrew section
FTFY
Not sure how much you've had experience with games companies, but if you start a cat and mouse game with them, they're more likely to slash and burn than surgically remove things... Support costs money.
Setting aside the astronomically high DC of future prediction; I don' t think that homebrew is or will be a threat in any way because of the removal of piecemeal purchasing (and hence there is no related reason that WotC would remove it). Sharing homebrew based on published content, WotC's or anyone else's, is clearly against the T&C, which means that people can't content-share homebrewed 'pieces' of official (or otherwise published) content. Also, while I'm aware that there is a lot of illegally published WotC copyrighted material floating around the internet, I suspect that the number of people that would need to track it down and the amount of homebrewing it would take to recreate it for each and every person probably doesn't pose much of a financial threat to WotC/Hasboro.
TL;DR - I don't believe homebrew is currently under threat based on any recent, observable data/information/behavior.
Giving you one free roll of future prediction of a possible future:
Players can't get elements in their game that others have told them about.
Someone creates a homebrew version of the thing, with different name, and far enough apart that it doesn't trigger the similiarity detection.
People a la carte the Homebrew copies of those abilities, subclasses and items
Book sales drop even further.
Hasbro realises what's going on and homebrew dies.
Which is to say, it's not a problem yet...
Homebrew's survival could 100% depend on players doing the right thing by WOTC, and not abusing Homebrew to get around the removal of a la carte. And even I don't think anyone will pass the DC 30 chance to believe that people will do the right thing by WOTC...
You realize they don't care what you homebrew for personal use, right? Which to be clear, means "within any of your groups using this site's campaign feature if you pay the monthly sub that's less than a fast food burger". And their automated detector is already inclined to fail positive I believe; honestly I suspect they'd sooner just put in a waiting and review period into publishing homebrews here rather than nix the system. It's a significant selling point of their basic subscription. Plus if they're moving to offer a full VTT service, they really can't not support homebrewing content if they want to compete with the established players.
Hasbro realises what's going on and homebrew dies. removes the copyrighted material from the homebrew section
FTFY
Not sure how much you've had experience with games companies, but if you start a cat and mouse game with them, they're more likely to slash and burn than surgically remove things... Support costs money.
And what "experience" exactly are you basing this assertion on?
Actually, I would like to be the flip side of the coin on this one.
What if Hasbro discovers revenue drops significantly due to their choice. What if they discover they had been feeding on lower income folks who COULD spare $8-$10 on a few classes or races or such, but CAN'T really afford to drop $60-$80 for a full book? If anyone in the company knows and understands customer trends, they are already neatening and tidying the piecemeal options and availability (maybe a filter-able search function?) so one doesn't have to scan each book looking for their desired things. Something to sit on the back burner and see how the current change affects revenue. If profits start to fall, drop it on the site and watch that little red line start spiking again, as the lower income folks jump back into BUYING things.
Either scenario is simply us, minions of the hobby, with our own experiences, beliefs and ideas, speculating. Not a single word has been spoken officially about either of our ideas, so we're just brainstorming for them.
Do you actually think they don’t know, to the penny, how much they make from individual sales? By the week, month, quarter and fiscal year? You really think they’ll be surprised? I think it’s more likely we here in the cheap seats will be surprised at how few people do buy partial books. As I s saw I’d in a different thread, I have about 15 people across my gaming groups, and I’m the only one who even knew it was an option. Granted anecdotal evidence is pretty worthless, I acknowledge that. But if WotC was making major money here, they’d be keeping the option, that I’d bet you.
Side note: What full books here are 60-80? All I see is $30, unless you’re talking about physical as well, which isn’t comparable. Us physical books people never had the option of piecemeal purchases. Now, that $30 is certainly more than a $2 subclass, but still half of what you’re throwing around.
Setting aside the astronomically high DC of future prediction; I don' t think that homebrew is or will be a threat in any way because of the removal of piecemeal purchasing (and hence there is no related reason that WotC would remove it). Sharing homebrew based on published content, WotC's or anyone else's, is clearly against the T&C, which means that people can't content-share homebrewed 'pieces' of official (or otherwise published) content. Also, while I'm aware that there is a lot of illegally published WotC copyrighted material floating around the internet, I suspect that the number of people that would need to track it down and the amount of homebrewing it would take to recreate it for each and every person probably doesn't pose much of a financial threat to WotC/Hasboro.
TL;DR - I don't believe homebrew is currently under threat based on any recent, observable data/information/behavior.
Giving you one free roll of future prediction of a possible future:
Players can't get elements in their game that others have told them about.
Someone creates a homebrew version of the thing, with different name, and far enough apart that it doesn't trigger the similiarity detection.
People a la carte the Homebrew copies of those abilities, subclasses and items
Book sales drop even further.
Hasbro realises what's going on and homebrew dies.
Which is to say, it's not a problem yet...
Homebrew's survival could 100% depend on players doing the right thing by WOTC, and not abusing Homebrew to get around the removal of a la carte. And even I don't think anyone will pass the DC 30 chance to believe that people will do the right thing by WOTC...
You know you can play D&D without this website? Right? They can cancel homebrew here, and we can all go back to writing things down on paper and erasing a hole in paper in the hit point box. We did it for decades. They can’t stop homebrew, even if they make it harder to do here, they can’t stop people doing it.
You realize sooner or later, they will have to figure out how the new rules are going to integrate into the current system.
Hopefully we get a heads up before they open the hood and begin rebuilding the system. While I feel confident they won’t touch the homwbrew for fear of setting of a nuke, adapting it will sooner or later have to be done.
You realize sooner or later, they will have to figure out how the new rules are going to integrate into the current system.
Hopefully we get a heads up before they open the hood and begin rebuilding the system. While I feel confident they won’t touch the homwbrew for fear of setting of a nuke, adapting it will sooner or later have to be done.
Do the new rules actually change any of the fundamental architecture, though? Stuff like attack mods, DCs, and skill bonuses are still calculated the same way, and any spell effect beyond rolling dice doesn't have active components on this site in the first place. Same for monster abilities.
You realize sooner or later, they will have to figure out how the new rules are going to integrate into the current system.
Hopefully we get a heads up before they open the hood and begin rebuilding the system. While I feel confident they won’t touch the homwbrew for fear of setting of a nuke, adapting it will sooner or later have to be done.
Do the new rules actually change any of the fundamental architecture, though? Stuff like attack mods, DCs, and skill bonuses are still calculated the same way, and any spell effect beyond rolling dice doesn't have active components on this site in the first place. Same for monster abilities.
Fundamentally if the mechanics remain, all that has to be done is to inform the user which rule set they might prefer to use.
You realize sooner or later, they will have to figure out how the new rules are going to integrate into the current system.
Hopefully we get a heads up before they open the hood and begin rebuilding the system. While I feel confident they won’t touch the homwbrew for fear of setting of a nuke, adapting it will sooner or later have to be done.
Do the new rules actually change any of the fundamental architecture, though? Stuff like attack mods, DCs, and skill bonuses are still calculated the same way, and any spell effect beyond rolling dice doesn't have active components on this site in the first place. Same for monster abilities.
Fundamentally if the mechanics remain, all that has to be done is to inform the user which rule set they might prefer to use.
But that's ultimately just a table matter, not one related to the actual active features of D&DB. AFAIK all the basic calculations are the same and everything else that comes to mind is mostly just a matter of linking the appropriate description. They've clearly shown they can support multiple iterations of the same race/species or monster on the site, so on the actual end of making their programs do stuff I don't think they're actually introducing anything new.
Why o why does this company keep making poor decisions. heck a few weeks ago when I first saw some 3rd party on here I was like ooo finally I have more reason to keep using d&d beyond. They are adding the things that previously made me want to play without the tool, so that I could try different subclasses and other 3rd party content etc, I was hopeful.
Then they took away the a genuinely great system in the a la carte options.. why??
I would usually buy the physical book, then pick up the player options and monsters items etc I need on here for a few pound at a time, heck I usually after a while rebought the digital book.. now I'll do none of that and they will if lucky get one purchase from me rather than multiple, I'll likely just look to other sources tbh, heck I'm pretty much just considering switching to pen and paper and homebrew for good due to the clunky homebrew (which probably won't exist soon enough) I really if honest with myself don't need to spend more money with the many books I already have..
Maybe it's a good time to switch to the pathfinder nexus and try that after all, pretty sure you get a pdf with your purchases so you actually do end up owning something also.
Well, calling one artist trying to get away with something and getting caught an "AI art controversy" is exactly what I was talking about. Not to mention I have absolutely no clue what you're even referring to by the "One D&D backpedal"
The Pinkerton thing was a bad corporate decision by Hasbro that wasn't even about D&D
The only item on your list that actually had any meaningful impact on the D&D community was the OGL kerfuffle, which while a big deal for third-party content creators, was frankly blown out of proportion within the wider community to further certain political agendas -- and maybe the end result of that was better for everyone in the end, but I am never going to embrace an 'end justifies the means' philosophy, especially when it wasn't the intended end. It was a shitty situation that WOTC manages to stumble its way through and land on a decent resolution
Again, you were the one who said D&D players had been continually "burned, over and over again" by WOTC. How did any of those incidents, whether you want to call them scandals or crises or whatever -- and I'm including the removal of a la carte options on DDB here -- "burn" the average player or DM?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The Rule of Two is something completely different.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Suddenly everyone is a D&D 3rd party publisher acting like children who can't have everything they point at for nearly free. It wasn't WotC who chose to use AI art (not that it matters at all to me), the OGL business might have been an issue for some 3rd party publishers but not for the vast majority of D&D players and DMs. And however nice the piecemeal deal on DDB it is not like all the other TTRPG companies has it and big evil WotC chose to cancel the deal. If there was no DDB you had to buy the whole book anyway so, to me, it is not an issue at all. I prefer to buy the books and then put together my own "menu" from those books.
Homebrew is a nice feature and something we all use to some extent. The idea that its in the works to get rid of the homebrew and in the long run DDB has no substance at all. There is simply no evidence that says so.
Always two, there are. Master and apprentice.
Its an issue because it was really the only distinguishing feature of D&D beyond (along with bundles) and it was why the site was extremely popular to the point that Wotc/Hasbro bought it 2 years ago or so.
Its a big deal when you would never actually buy the book, but would buy a subclass or some other smaller part. Thats money in the company's pocket. Now that they don't offer it...people aren't going to buy the books. And honestly, although I have a campaign and was using the tools (have a subscription) I think I may just cancel and overall go to a different system entirely. Thats more money they lose. Will they continue to gain in the future? Who knows. I do wish them all the best even though i think this was a supreme mistake.
If you are someone who wants to buy the books and support Hasbro/Wotc then that is your decision. Mine is going to be different decision going forward.
"If there was no DDB you had to buy the whole book anyway so, to me, it is not an issue at all." - no...we simply wouldn't buy the book at all. If there was no DDB Hasbro/Wotc would (will) make less money.
Right, the cross referencing of the various features throughout the books and general ease of access a website represents over flipping physical pages or scrolling through a giant PDF along with their integration with a character builder and dice roller clearly add no value whatsoever and are just window dressing.
Setting aside the astronomically high DC of future prediction; I don' t think that homebrew is or will be a threat in any way because of the removal of piecemeal purchasing (and hence there is no related reason that WotC would remove it). Sharing homebrew based on published content, WotC's or anyone else's, is clearly against the T&C, which means that people can't content-share homebrewed 'pieces' of official (or otherwise published) content. Also, while I'm aware that there is a lot of illegally published WotC copyrighted material floating around the internet, I suspect that the number of people that would need to track it down and the amount of homebrewing it would take to recreate it for each and every person probably doesn't pose much of a financial threat to WotC/Hasboro.
TL;DR - I don't believe homebrew is currently under threat based on any recent, observable data/information/behavior.
Giving you one free roll of future prediction of a possible future:
Which is to say, it's not a problem yet...
Homebrew's survival could 100% depend on players doing the right thing by WOTC, and not abusing Homebrew to get around the removal of a la carte. And even I don't think anyone will pass the DC 30 chance to believe that people will do the right thing by WOTC...
FTFY
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Not sure how much you've had experience with games companies, but if you start a cat and mouse game with them, they're more likely to slash and burn than surgically remove things... Support costs money.
You realize they don't care what you homebrew for personal use, right? Which to be clear, means "within any of your groups using this site's campaign feature if you pay the monthly sub that's less than a fast food burger". And their automated detector is already inclined to fail positive I believe; honestly I suspect they'd sooner just put in a waiting and review period into publishing homebrews here rather than nix the system. It's a significant selling point of their basic subscription. Plus if they're moving to offer a full VTT service, they really can't not support homebrewing content if they want to compete with the established players.
And what "experience" exactly are you basing this assertion on?
Do you actually think they don’t know, to the penny, how much they make from individual sales? By the week, month, quarter and fiscal year? You really think they’ll be surprised? I think it’s more likely we here in the cheap seats will be surprised at how few people do buy partial books. As I s saw I’d in a different thread, I have about 15 people across my gaming groups, and I’m the only one who even knew it was an option. Granted anecdotal evidence is pretty worthless, I acknowledge that. But if WotC was making major money here, they’d be keeping the option, that I’d bet you.
Side note: What full books here are 60-80? All I see is $30, unless you’re talking about physical as well, which isn’t comparable. Us physical books people never had the option of piecemeal purchases. Now, that $30 is certainly more than a $2 subclass, but still half of what you’re throwing around.
You know you can play D&D without this website? Right? They can cancel homebrew here, and we can all go back to writing things down on paper and erasing a hole in paper in the hit point box. We did it for decades. They can’t stop homebrew, even if they make it harder to do here, they can’t stop people doing it.
You realize sooner or later, they will have to figure out how the new rules are going to integrate into the current system.
Hopefully we get a heads up before they open the hood and begin rebuilding the system. While I feel confident they won’t touch the homwbrew for fear of setting of a nuke, adapting it will sooner or later have to be done.
Do the new rules actually change any of the fundamental architecture, though? Stuff like attack mods, DCs, and skill bonuses are still calculated the same way, and any spell effect beyond rolling dice doesn't have active components on this site in the first place. Same for monster abilities.
Fundamentally if the mechanics remain, all that has to be done is to inform the user which rule set they might prefer to use.
What about Master and Commander or is that going too off the far side of the world?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
But that's ultimately just a table matter, not one related to the actual active features of D&DB. AFAIK all the basic calculations are the same and everything else that comes to mind is mostly just a matter of linking the appropriate description. They've clearly shown they can support multiple iterations of the same race/species or monster on the site, so on the actual end of making their programs do stuff I don't think they're actually introducing anything new.
Why o why does this company keep making poor decisions. heck a few weeks ago when I first saw some 3rd party on here I was like ooo finally I have more reason to keep using d&d beyond. They are adding the things that previously made me want to play without the tool, so that I could try different subclasses and other 3rd party content etc, I was hopeful.
Then they took away the a genuinely great system in the a la carte options.. why??
I would usually buy the physical book, then pick up the player options and monsters items etc I need on here for a few pound at a time, heck I usually after a while rebought the digital book.. now I'll do none of that and they will if lucky get one purchase from me rather than multiple, I'll likely just look to other sources tbh, heck I'm pretty much just considering switching to pen and paper and homebrew for good due to the clunky homebrew (which probably won't exist soon enough) I really if honest with myself don't need to spend more money with the many books I already have..
Maybe it's a good time to switch to the pathfinder nexus and try that after all, pretty sure you get a pdf with your purchases so you actually do end up owning something also.