If we were able to provide feedback on something before it happened, then I think a lot of anxiety would be reduced. What we're seeing though is that unpopular changes are being forced through, then either everyone has a meltdown over it or the company just ignores people. That is a situation that will inevitable lead to anxiety and speculation. People want to head off the changes while in the decision phase rather than having to fight the inertia of the fait accompli, which is what all these threads, ultimately, are about.
If you want to stop the overreactions (short of, you know, booting anyone and everyone who has any real interest in how the site is run, which means less funding for your shiny new toys here), then more communication, not less, is required.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
With the loss of al a carte purchases, Hasbro now has every financial incentive to kill the homebrew tools off as well.
Make your voices heard. Don't sit in silence. If we wait for Chris Cox (Hasbro head of marketing) to have his way with DnDBeyond, we will lose the open and accessible platform we love. We are already loosing it as we speak.
Piracy is not a consumer issue, it's a marketplace issue.
Do you deny that eventually the home brew tools of the site will need to be updated?
I personally see them having to do so, as people will want to continue to make personal homebrew for 2024.
So , what happens to 2014 homebrew tools?
Will they still be supported?
Or will they be discontinued?
What about 2014 homebrewed elements that many may wish to transfer into 2024?
So, what is the invisible writing on the wall of DDBeyond that says how will this be handled?
They already do cover both sets, though. Magic items do not seem cleanly differentiated, but if you do a subclass and choose the class it relates to, you can choose 2024 class version or 2014 (Legacy) version. Check for yourself.
And how long will 2014 homebrew creation be supported? This only applies to the current fact that one has to basically remake 2014 homebrew for 2024 use.
Backgrounds, feats, subspecies/subRaces, still a good bit of homebrew and the tools to create it that would still have to eventually be updated. ( they did drop ASI’s from the creature to the backstory, that would have to be replaced with appropriate tools, former homebrew will need to be changed.
So, what will happen when ,homebrew tools for 2014 homebrew creation is discontinued? Will we get a notification of such or will we just find out when it happens?
I’d like to know?
But it handles 2024 use NOW! They already have those provisions in there. So really not sure what you are on about. You already have a choice on 2024 race or legacy race, 2024 or legacy background, etc, in the homebrew rules.
The fact you do not understand this suggests you have not even looked at the homebrew interface at all. As such, there is no answer that would satisfy you.
I did not ask if a half baked work-around was available, and I’m quite familiar with the extent the home brew tools provide,
so again ether formally answer if new homebrew tools for 2024 are going to be available that directly addresses the new rules character building , and whether you think we would be told if and when that might occur.
If the ability to respectfully engage in conversation is difficult for you, then as stated before you can always unsubscribe from the thread.
"Half baked workaround?"
The Homebrew tools literally already have the 2024 and 2014 rulesets flagged differently. They already have put in that functionality. What in blazes different are you even thinking might be needed or even might be considered needed?
The "New rules for character building" are already there, without having gotten rid of the old rule accessibility.
The reality - as much as folks might want to know what the future holds, even Wizards probably does not know what their long-term plans for the homebrew system are. Right now, the system supports both and there is no real indication that will change. What might happen in a few years? Wizards cannot really predict that - too many factors, many of which are complete unknowns or outside of Wizards’ control, go into programming a website like this.
It would be silly for Wizards to make a statement right now - they do not want to promise something they might not be able to deliver if circumstances change. Plus, let us be honest, any time they say anything, those with conspiratorial minds and poor reading comprehension twist what they say into some kind of nonsensical attack. This is a discussion where they have nothing to actually say and their nothing will be twisted into a negative. There is no upside to Wizards. No upside for the majority of the community who recognizes the obvious reality that “it works now, it will likely work for a while, the future beyond that is unknowable.” No upside to the community who is sick of folks flaming the forums making mountains out of molehills. No upside to the folks who are genuinely concerned, since the only answer Wizards can really give is “we can only talk about the immediate future.”
No one wins from Wizards saying anything, other than the worst elements of the community who just are looking for the next baseless conspiracy to spin. Why would they bother? I know I don’t want them to say anything - I just want them to keep doing what they are doing, since it seems to work decently enough (or at least as decently as the sometimes finicky homebrew system ever worked).
Yes, “half-baked work-around”, a term that is reader friendly considering more colorful context could be used, is exactly what was used to quickly allow the Ability Score increase that in 2014 character building was and is still tied to a Race/Species to still be selected, bit not in the background selection form, but the Ability Score selection form.
Can you narrow this down? Is it just that there is currently no way to add stats cleanly to a homebrew background? Or that there simply is no 2024 custom background option?
Yes, “half-baked work-around”, a term that is reader friendly considering more colorful context could be used, is exactly what was used to quickly allow the Ability Score increase that in 2014 character building was and is still tied to a Race/Species to still be selected, bit not in the background selection form, but the Ability Score selection form.
Can you narrow this down? Is it just that there is currently no way to add stats cleanly to a homebrew background? Or that there simply is no 2024 custom background option?
The current homebrew method is when selecting a 2024 background as a starting point for customization, the 2014 background is used, and the ASI feature is borrowed from the 2014 Race/Species tool. The 2024 character builder reads certain database tags that are boolean values ( true or false ) that tells the builder to ether display the element, in this case the ASI R/S dropdown for the ability score selection.
That’s why if you make a 2024 rules character, the ASI’s that are still part of the database code of the Race/Species doesn’t get shown on the page, but can be accessed via the Ability score selection page. That’s because the Homebrew background tool for 2014 was never designed to display Asi dropdowns, and using pieces from another source, and displaying those pieces in another section is “half-baked workaround”
With that known, sooner or later ( hopefully the very latter ), the support of the 2014 homebrew tools will have to have a rework done ( to clean up the mess needed to quickly add 2024 character creation support ).
Now at that point, has the company been working a solution, and waiting till a certain point to just up and swap the tools out, no warning. Or, maybe they’re in the process of retooling the homebrewer as we speak, and they can give a relative timeframe of when they expect it could be ready for swapping.
Ether way, it’s a given that the homebrew tools will eventually, and hopefully not in the very near future, be updated to reflect the 2024 changes that have been made in character creation.( which means that time and effort in attempting to maintain 2014 tools and content will cease to be spent, discontinued, and instead be used to maintain and update the 2024 tools and content. And when that happens, the company will undoubtedly end all 2014 rules support. ) [ what will happen is the content becomes nothing more than reference material, that eventually will be also discontinued. It’s the nature of digital and a system like D&D, everything that has a beginning has an end. ]
That should just be a matter of them working out a different version of ASI to stick in or something similar. Since they can differentiate between 2024 and 2014 stuff already, making a 'custom background' that is flagged as 2024 should not need tearing everything apart and building from scratch.
Given how conservative they can be, it is far more likely that they have not added it because they do not like the idea of it existing at all.
Given how conservative they can be, it is far more likely that they have not added it because they do not like the idea of it existing at all.
2014 features (legacy backgrounds, legacy custom backgrounds) are not yet fully supported in 2024; they have said they plan to fix those ("We’re working on updating this functionality - but there’s no ETA for this yet"). Once that is done, they will have 2024 custom backgrounds, functionally, as long as the Legacy checkbox is checked. Having a separate, non-legacy custom background option would be very simple to add to that --- the problem is, I suspect, the backend data model not yet supporting backgrounds giving ASIs.
There is likely also backend support need for homebrew 2024 custom backgrounds --- which may be the WotC-preferred implementation of 2024 custom backgrounds. If my above suspicion is true, adding it will be easy once the data model changes are done.
(For the uninitiated, backend data model changes are usually the most difficult to make in this sort of webapp system. Because they require data migrations. But it sure does sound like they are committed to doing them, or at least willing to say they are.)
Given how conservative they can be, it is far more likely that they have not added it because they do not like the idea of it existing at all.
2014 features (legacy backgrounds, legacy custom backgrounds) are not yet fully supported in 2024; they have said they plan to fix those ("We’re working on updating this functionality - but there’s no ETA for this yet"). Once that is done, they will have 2024 custom backgrounds, functionally, as long as the Legacy checkbox is checked. Having a separate, non-legacy custom background option would be very simple to add to that --- the problem is, I suspect, the backend data model not yet supporting backgrounds giving ASIs.
There is likely also backend support need for homebrew 2024 custom backgrounds --- which may be the WotC-preferred implementation of 2024 custom backgrounds. If my above suspicion is true, adding it will be easy once the data model changes are done.
(For the uninitiated, backend data model changes are usually the most difficult to make in this sort of webapp system. Because they require data migrations. But it sure does sound like they are committed to doing them, or at least willing to say they are.)
Lets be fair, when it comes to Homebrew... The 5.24 features are not fully supported in 5.24.
You can't assign a feat category (Origin, Fighting Style, Epic Boon) to a 2024. You can't set the 3 ASI choices to a Homebrew 2024 background. And this isn't to mention the ongoing issues like not being able to assign Homebrew Feats as requirements to other Homebrew Feats, and not being able to use Homebrew Species as restrictions on Homebrew Feats or Backgrounds etc.
I'd be unsurprised if they implemented the Feats lists as a hardcoded list, meaning there's more than a data model at issue.
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If we were able to provide feedback on something before it happened, then I think a lot of anxiety would be reduced. What we're seeing though is that unpopular changes are being forced through, then either everyone has a meltdown over it or the company just ignores people. That is a situation that will inevitable lead to anxiety and speculation. People want to head off the changes while in the decision phase rather than having to fight the inertia of the fait accompli, which is what all these threads, ultimately, are about.
If you want to stop the overreactions (short of, you know, booting anyone and everyone who has any real interest in how the site is run, which means less funding for your shiny new toys here), then more communication, not less, is required.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I'm from the future and that didn't happen.
But it handles 2024 use NOW! They already have those provisions in there. So really not sure what you are on about. You already have a choice on 2024 race or legacy race, 2024 or legacy background, etc, in the homebrew rules.
The fact you do not understand this suggests you have not even looked at the homebrew interface at all. As such, there is no answer that would satisfy you.
"Half baked workaround?"
The Homebrew tools literally already have the 2024 and 2014 rulesets flagged differently. They already have put in that functionality. What in blazes different are you even thinking might be needed or even might be considered needed?
The "New rules for character building" are already there, without having gotten rid of the old rule accessibility.
The reality - as much as folks might want to know what the future holds, even Wizards probably does not know what their long-term plans for the homebrew system are. Right now, the system supports both and there is no real indication that will change. What might happen in a few years? Wizards cannot really predict that - too many factors, many of which are complete unknowns or outside of Wizards’ control, go into programming a website like this.
It would be silly for Wizards to make a statement right now - they do not want to promise something they might not be able to deliver if circumstances change. Plus, let us be honest, any time they say anything, those with conspiratorial minds and poor reading comprehension twist what they say into some kind of nonsensical attack. This is a discussion where they have nothing to actually say and their nothing will be twisted into a negative. There is no upside to Wizards. No upside for the majority of the community who recognizes the obvious reality that “it works now, it will likely work for a while, the future beyond that is unknowable.” No upside to the community who is sick of folks flaming the forums making mountains out of molehills. No upside to the folks who are genuinely concerned, since the only answer Wizards can really give is “we can only talk about the immediate future.”
No one wins from Wizards saying anything, other than the worst elements of the community who just are looking for the next baseless conspiracy to spin. Why would they bother? I know I don’t want them to say anything - I just want them to keep doing what they are doing, since it seems to work decently enough (or at least as decently as the sometimes finicky homebrew system ever worked).
Can you narrow this down? Is it just that there is currently no way to add stats cleanly to a homebrew background? Or that there simply is no 2024 custom background option?
That should just be a matter of them working out a different version of ASI to stick in or something similar. Since they can differentiate between 2024 and 2014 stuff already, making a 'custom background' that is flagged as 2024 should not need tearing everything apart and building from scratch.
Given how conservative they can be, it is far more likely that they have not added it because they do not like the idea of it existing at all.
2014 features (legacy backgrounds, legacy custom backgrounds) are not yet fully supported in 2024; they have said they plan to fix those ("We’re working on updating this functionality - but there’s no ETA for this yet"). Once that is done, they will have 2024 custom backgrounds, functionally, as long as the Legacy checkbox is checked. Having a separate, non-legacy custom background option would be very simple to add to that --- the problem is, I suspect, the backend data model not yet supporting backgrounds giving ASIs.
There is likely also backend support need for homebrew 2024 custom backgrounds --- which may be the WotC-preferred implementation of 2024 custom backgrounds. If my above suspicion is true, adding it will be easy once the data model changes are done.
(For the uninitiated, backend data model changes are usually the most difficult to make in this sort of webapp system. Because they require data migrations. But it sure does sound like they are committed to doing them, or at least willing to say they are.)
Lets be fair, when it comes to Homebrew... The 5.24 features are not fully supported in 5.24.
You can't assign a feat category (Origin, Fighting Style, Epic Boon) to a 2024. You can't set the 3 ASI choices to a Homebrew 2024 background. And this isn't to mention the ongoing issues like not being able to assign Homebrew Feats as requirements to other Homebrew Feats, and not being able to use Homebrew Species as restrictions on Homebrew Feats or Backgrounds etc.
I'd be unsurprised if they implemented the Feats lists as a hardcoded list, meaning there's more than a data model at issue.