My only worry now is AL. Will the DM be able to allow that option, or will we be hard-locked to the 16 in the PHB? Acolyte for example gets a resounding meh from me, since so few classes will want to boost more than one mental ability score, unless my cleric starts with an awkward 9 or 11 in Int or Cha.
The way they have described origins working is you get to distribute your bonus how you want among the 3 scores. I still see what you are saying but getting a 12 in Cha isn't terrible for a cleric to have. Point buy I think you could get 8,14,14,8,17,12 and be good to go. Or if you were going for heavy armor maybe 13,10,14,8,17,12, maybe even pumping Cha down to 10 to get strength to 14 and be 1 away from the strength needed for the heaviest armors.
Half of the people I play with will be happy to take what ever Background is close to what they want to build. The others will want a bespoke Background that fits their 4 page Backstory.
Honestly bumping a second mental isn’t bad if you’re a SAD caster, particularly if you’re also looking at a skill that uses the relevant ability.
If you're using point buy or standard array, optimal is almost always '+2 in primary stat, +1 in either Dex or Con' -- a 15/14/13/12/10/8 standard array becomes 17/14/14/12/10/8, with the 14s in Dex and Con -- but it rarely makes that much difference. Bumping point buy from 27 to 28 would make it almost always irrelevant.
Half of the people I play with will be happy to take what ever Background is close to what they want to build. The others will want a bespoke Background that fits their 4 page Backstory.
It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me
It is me to a degree as well. I really wish they had stuck closer to the UA, but I also get why they didn't. It almost feels like they didn't because they are trying to avoid power gamers as much as possible. Like they seem to want to encourage you to take any background and be fine still but you aren't going to get the "best stats and feats and skills" if you do that. But I am not sure that it is ever going to work out entirely like that. I also feel that many times when people make backstories that fit how their class got the way that they were and why they are a paladin, for example, often times the background will still mesh well.
I personally need to see so much more about the system before I am ready for any verdict on the origins. Like are we going to have a menu of feat options or one specific feat for each origin?
Half of the people I play with will be happy to take what ever Background is close to what they want to build. The others will want a bespoke Background that fits their 4 page Backstory.
It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me
It is me to a degree as well. I really wish they had stuck closer to the UA, but I also get why they didn't. It almost feels like they didn't because they are trying to avoid power gamers as much as possible. Like they seem to want to encourage you to take any background and be fine still but you aren't going to get the "best stats and feats and skills" if you do that. But I am not sure that it is ever going to work out entirely like that. I also feel that many times when people make backstories that fit how their class got the way that they were and why they are a paladin, for example, often times the background will still mesh well.
I personally need to see so much more about the system before I am ready for any verdict on the origins. Like are we going to have a menu of feat options or one specific feat for each origin?
It looked like 1 feat per background. You also get a menu of 3 ability scores, 2 locked in skills and it looked like a tool or two. Maybe a choice choices on the tool.
I can see them wanting to balance the skills/ability scores/feat, though in play, there’s probably not much you can get up to, min/max-wise.
I have a feeling it’s mostly about catering to new players. Giving them a few big choices and telling them to pick one is much simpler than just saying, have at it — make your own custom thing where you have to make four choices without knowing what it means. Then in the DMG, we get a look under the hood at how to make one for experienced players. Backgrounds have really always been the easiest thing to homebrew, I doubt that will change.
Half of the people I play with will be happy to take what ever Background is close to what they want to build. The others will want a bespoke Background that fits their 4 page Backstory.
It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me
It is me to a degree as well. I really wish they had stuck closer to the UA, but I also get why they didn't. It almost feels like they didn't because they are trying to avoid power gamers as much as possible. Like they seem to want to encourage you to take any background and be fine still but you aren't going to get the "best stats and feats and skills" if you do that. But I am not sure that it is ever going to work out entirely like that. I also feel that many times when people make backstories that fit how their class got the way that they were and why they are a paladin, for example, often times the background will still mesh well.
I personally need to see so much more about the system before I am ready for any verdict on the origins. Like are we going to have a menu of feat options or one specific feat for each origin?
It looked like 1 feat per background. You also get a menu of 3 ability scores, 2 locked in skills and it looked like a tool or two. Maybe a choice choices on the tool.
I can see them wanting to balance the skills/ability scores/feat, though in play, there’s probably not much you can get up to, min/max-wise.
I have a feeling it’s mostly about catering to new players. Giving them a few big choices and telling them to pick one is much simpler than just saying, have at it — make your own custom thing where you have to make four choices without knowing what it means. Then in the DMG, we get a look under the hood at how to make one for experienced players. Backgrounds have really always been the easiest thing to homebrew, I doubt that will change.
To give an understanding of what I am talking about with the "menu of feats" question. Lets take the soldier background. Is it just going to be toughness? or are we going to be allowed to take the toughness, weapon training or lightly armored feats. I am not suspecting that any background will allow all of the feats, but I am also not sure that the backgrounds won't give you a few that you can pick from.
But if that was the case they could just call custom backgrounds a variant and still print the option in PHB.
I agree with you but it's too late now, the PHB is done. We won't see it for a while, but content creators already have it. It's been printed.
The cynic in me can't help but think that one of the goals behind this is for them to print a bunch of more appealing background combinations later (e.g. a bunch that have +Con and Magic Initiate, Moderately Armored, Lucky or Alert) in Volo's Backgrounds of Everything.
It is me to a degree as well. I really wish they had stuck closer to the UA, but I also get why they didn't. It almost feels like they didn't because they are trying to avoid power gamers as much as possible. Like they seem to want to encourage you to take any background and be fine still but you aren't going to get the "best stats and feats and skills" if you do that. But I am not sure that it is ever going to work out entirely like that. I also feel that many times when people make backstories that fit how their class got the way that they were and why they are a paladin, for example, often times the background will still mesh well.
I personally need to see so much more about the system before I am ready for any verdict on the origins. Like are we going to have a menu of feat options or one specific feat for each origin?
It looked like 1 feat per background. You also get a menu of 3 ability scores, 2 locked in skills and it looked like a tool or two. Maybe a choice choices on the tool.
I can see them wanting to balance the skills/ability scores/feat, though in play, there’s probably not much you can get up to, min/max-wise.
I have a feeling it’s mostly about catering to new players. Giving them a few big choices and telling them to pick one is much simpler than just saying, have at it — make your own custom thing where you have to make four choices without knowing what it means. Then in the DMG, we get a look under the hood at how to make one for experienced players. Backgrounds have really always been the easiest thing to homebrew, I doubt that will change.
To give an understanding of what I am talking about with the "menu of feats" question. Lets take the soldier background. Is it just going to be toughness? or are we going to be allowed to take the toughness, weapon training or lightly armored feats. I am not suspecting that any background will allow all of the feats, but I am also not sure that the backgrounds won't give you a few that you can pick from.
I understood that. I'm just saying from the page they gave a glimpse of, there was only one feat in the background I saw. Certainly, it could be that some backgrounds have only one choice of feat, where others have multiple choices. I guess we just have to wait until September.
It is me to a degree as well. I really wish they had stuck closer to the UA, but I also get why they didn't. It almost feels like they didn't because they are trying to avoid power gamers as much as possible. Like they seem to want to encourage you to take any background and be fine still but you aren't going to get the "best stats and feats and skills" if you do that. But I am not sure that it is ever going to work out entirely like that. I also feel that many times when people make backstories that fit how their class got the way that they were and why they are a paladin, for example, often times the background will still mesh well.
I personally need to see so much more about the system before I am ready for any verdict on the origins. Like are we going to have a menu of feat options or one specific feat for each origin?
It looked like 1 feat per background. You also get a menu of 3 ability scores, 2 locked in skills and it looked like a tool or two. Maybe a choice choices on the tool.
I can see them wanting to balance the skills/ability scores/feat, though in play, there’s probably not much you can get up to, min/max-wise.
I have a feeling it’s mostly about catering to new players. Giving them a few big choices and telling them to pick one is much simpler than just saying, have at it — make your own custom thing where you have to make four choices without knowing what it means. Then in the DMG, we get a look under the hood at how to make one for experienced players. Backgrounds have really always been the easiest thing to homebrew, I doubt that will change.
To give an understanding of what I am talking about with the "menu of feats" question. Lets take the soldier background. Is it just going to be toughness? or are we going to be allowed to take the toughness, weapon training or lightly armored feats. I am not suspecting that any background will allow all of the feats, but I am also not sure that the backgrounds won't give you a few that you can pick from.
I understood that. I'm just saying from the page they gave a glimpse of, there was only one feat in the background I saw. Certainly, it could be that some backgrounds have only one choice of feat, where others have multiple choices. I guess we just have to wait until September.
In general I think there is going to be a case of work with the gm to change anything. I feel if I am a GM and my player is making a soldier background character that is a fighter and the soldier normally gives weapon proficiency I would allow them to change the feat to something else that makes sense for a soldier, or vice versa.
Not going to lie: the 5th level feature feels... like a bit of a waste; one second level spell always prepared and one use of it. All for a spell which is mostly useful for traversal; something a lot of tables kind of gloss over. Yes; the steed technically will act in combat; but the casting time is 10 minutes; not like you'll be calling your steed to your aid in the heat of battle. So functionally; I'll use this precisely once, and only ever again if my magical ride of choice drops to 0 hit points.
Not going to lie: the 5th level feature feels... like a bit of a waste; one second level spell always prepared and one use of it. All for a spell which is mostly useful for traversal; something a lot of tables kind of gloss over. Yes; the steed technically will act in combat; but the casting time is 10 minutes; not like you'll be calling your steed to your aid in the heat of battle. So functionally; I'll use this precisely once, and only ever again if my magical ride of choice drops to 0 hit points.
So basically, you'll recast it every time your magical ride of choice is involved in a combat? In any case, the major 5th level feature is 'extra attack', divine steed is just a secondary bonus.
Not going to lie: the 5th level feature feels... like a bit of a waste; one second level spell always prepared and one use of it. All for a spell which is mostly useful for traversal; something a lot of tables kind of gloss over. Yes; the steed technically will act in combat; but the casting time is 10 minutes; not like you'll be calling your steed to your aid in the heat of battle. So functionally; I'll use this precisely once, and only ever again if my magical ride of choice drops to 0 hit points.
So basically, you'll recast it every time your magical ride of choice is involved in a combat? In any case, the major 5th level feature is 'extra attack', divine steed is just a secondary bonus.
Even as a secondary bonus; isn't this the sort of bonus you'd want on say; a cavalier fighter and not a paladin who can just cast it normally? At the same level mind if when leveled slots remains the same.
Just saying: in all my time playing 5e, much like Blade Ward; I don't think I've ever actually seen someone cast this spell in game.
Not going to lie: the 5th level feature feels... like a bit of a waste; one second level spell always prepared and one use of it. All for a spell which is mostly useful for traversal; something a lot of tables kind of gloss over. Yes; the steed technically will act in combat; but the casting time is 10 minutes; not like you'll be calling your steed to your aid in the heat of battle. So functionally; I'll use this precisely once, and only ever again if my magical ride of choice drops to 0 hit points.
So basically, you'll recast it every time your magical ride of choice is involved in a combat? In any case, the major 5th level feature is 'extra attack', divine steed is just a secondary bonus.
Even as a secondary bonus; isn't this the sort of bonus you'd want on say; a cavalier fighter and not a paladin who can just cast it normally? At the same level mind if when leveled slots remains the same.
Just saying: in all my time playing 5e, much like Blade Ward; I don't think I've ever actually seen someone cast this spell in game.
In your entire time playing it has cost a spell prep and a spell slot, now it doesn't. This is a very underestimated spell. Increasing movement speed in combat is good, increasing travel speed is also good.
Not going to lie: the 5th level feature feels... like a bit of a waste; one second level spell always prepared and one use of it. All for a spell which is mostly useful for traversal; something a lot of tables kind of gloss over. Yes; the steed technically will act in combat; but the casting time is 10 minutes; not like you'll be calling your steed to your aid in the heat of battle. So functionally; I'll use this precisely once, and only ever again if my magical ride of choice drops to 0 hit points.
So basically, you'll recast it every time your magical ride of choice is involved in a combat? In any case, the major 5th level feature is 'extra attack', divine steed is just a secondary bonus.
Even as a secondary bonus; isn't this the sort of bonus you'd want on say; a cavalier fighter and not a paladin who can just cast it normally? At the same level mind if when leveled slots remains the same.
Just saying: in all my time playing 5e, much like Blade Ward; I don't think I've ever actually seen someone cast this spell in game.
In your entire time playing it has cost a spell prep and a spell slot, now it doesn't. This is a very underestimated spell. Increasing movement speed in combat is good, increasing travel speed is also good.
Travel speed; a thing that most campaigns seem to hand-wave, WOTC's included. And exactly how many crypts, lost mines, haunted mansions, or meetings with corrupt nobles are you bringing your horse into?
It isn't as though this is granting access to the spell early either as stated before. Indeed: compare directly to another class feature that grants access to a spell: pact of the chain for the Warlock. That actually grants additional utility and options to said version of find familiar.
As it stands: this feature might as well be re-named: "save 8-200 GP"
Not going to lie: the 5th level feature feels... like a bit of a waste; one second level spell always prepared and one use of it. All for a spell which is mostly useful for traversal; something a lot of tables kind of gloss over. Yes; the steed technically will act in combat; but the casting time is 10 minutes; not like you'll be calling your steed to your aid in the heat of battle. So functionally; I'll use this precisely once, and only ever again if my magical ride of choice drops to 0 hit points.
So basically, you'll recast it every time your magical ride of choice is involved in a combat? In any case, the major 5th level feature is 'extra attack', divine steed is just a secondary bonus.
Even as a secondary bonus; isn't this the sort of bonus you'd want on say; a cavalier fighter and not a paladin who can just cast it normally? At the same level mind if when leveled slots remains the same.
Just saying: in all my time playing 5e, much like Blade Ward; I don't think I've ever actually seen someone cast this spell in game.
In your entire time playing it has cost a spell prep and a spell slot, now it doesn't. This is a very underestimated spell. Increasing movement speed in combat is good, increasing travel speed is also good.
Travel speed; a thing that most campaigns seem to hand-wave, WOTC's included. And exactly how many crypts, lost mines, haunted mansions, or meetings with corrupt nobles are you bringing your horse into?
It isn't as though this is granting access to the spell early either as stated before. Indeed: compare directly to another class feature that grants access to a spell: pact of the chain for the Warlock. That actually grants additional utility and options to said version of find familiar.
As it stands: this feature might as well be re-named: "save 8-200 GP"
Remember that the stat block is changing for this spell. You aren't just getting a horse, and if I can get a free horse that costs me nothing, no spell slots, no spell preps, no gold. I am taking that horse into lost mines definitely, haunted mansions at least to explore the exterior, crypts depends on the size of the crypt. You are acting like you never have any adventures in large rooms or out exploring in the wilderness or anything that the only adventures that exist are cramped locations. If that is the case the monk's movement speed upgrade is pretty useless as well. But I have seen plenty of adventures where having a horse is amazing as the extra movement speed allows you to stay at range and fire off attacks. You can even let an ally ride it if you want to be in the thick of things.
Awful I hate it, it’s totally soured me on these books. if it was an actually 6e I could understand changes to smite, but it’s not it’s 5.1 they should only be adding things and streamlining things not taking things away, and definitely not taking away The main defining feature of paladins.
i’ve never had an issue with players doing too much damage at the table. It’s fun, It’s memorable I’m pulling for my player's and it really not that hard to deal with hold person and counter spell are way more encounter ruining then 78 damage . They should have brought other classes up rather than bringing paladins down. It really makes me worried about the whole design ethos, it’s already feeling really homogenized and uninspired.
Also just own it if your nerfing something into the ground say it tell us way don’t try and act like your doing us a favor with a free smite and horse spell. it felt insulting.
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The way they have described origins working is you get to distribute your bonus how you want among the 3 scores. I still see what you are saying but getting a 12 in Cha isn't terrible for a cleric to have. Point buy I think you could get 8,14,14,8,17,12 and be good to go. Or if you were going for heavy armor maybe 13,10,14,8,17,12, maybe even pumping Cha down to 10 to get strength to 14 and be 1 away from the strength needed for the heaviest armors.
Honestly bumping a second mental isn’t bad if you’re a SAD caster, particularly if you’re also looking at a skill that uses the relevant ability.
Half of the people I play with will be happy to take what ever Background is close to what they want to build. The others will want a bespoke Background that fits their 4 page Backstory.
It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
If you're using point buy or standard array, optimal is almost always '+2 in primary stat, +1 in either Dex or Con' -- a 15/14/13/12/10/8 standard array becomes 17/14/14/12/10/8, with the 14s in Dex and Con -- but it rarely makes that much difference. Bumping point buy from 27 to 28 would make it almost always irrelevant.
Optimal /= how people actually build their characters.
It is me to a degree as well. I really wish they had stuck closer to the UA, but I also get why they didn't. It almost feels like they didn't because they are trying to avoid power gamers as much as possible. Like they seem to want to encourage you to take any background and be fine still but you aren't going to get the "best stats and feats and skills" if you do that. But I am not sure that it is ever going to work out entirely like that. I also feel that many times when people make backstories that fit how their class got the way that they were and why they are a paladin, for example, often times the background will still mesh well.
I personally need to see so much more about the system before I am ready for any verdict on the origins. Like are we going to have a menu of feat options or one specific feat for each origin?
It looked like 1 feat per background. You also get a menu of 3 ability scores, 2 locked in skills and it looked like a tool or two. Maybe a choice choices on the tool.
I can see them wanting to balance the skills/ability scores/feat, though in play, there’s probably not much you can get up to, min/max-wise.
I have a feeling it’s mostly about catering to new players. Giving them a few big choices and telling them to pick one is much simpler than just saying, have at it — make your own custom thing where you have to make four choices without knowing what it means. Then in the DMG, we get a look under the hood at how to make one for experienced players. Backgrounds have really always been the easiest thing to homebrew, I doubt that will change.
But if that was the case they could just call custom backgrounds a variant and still print the option in PHB.
To give an understanding of what I am talking about with the "menu of feats" question. Lets take the soldier background. Is it just going to be toughness? or are we going to be allowed to take the toughness, weapon training or lightly armored feats. I am not suspecting that any background will allow all of the feats, but I am also not sure that the backgrounds won't give you a few that you can pick from.
I agree with you but it's too late now, the PHB is done. We won't see it for a while, but content creators already have it. It's been printed.
The cynic in me can't help but think that one of the goals behind this is for them to print a bunch of more appealing background combinations later (e.g. a bunch that have +Con and Magic Initiate, Moderately Armored, Lucky or Alert) in Volo's Backgrounds of Everything.
I understood that. I'm just saying from the page they gave a glimpse of, there was only one feat in the background I saw. Certainly, it could be that some backgrounds have only one choice of feat, where others have multiple choices. I guess we just have to wait until September.
In general I think there is going to be a case of work with the gm to change anything. I feel if I am a GM and my player is making a soldier background character that is a fighter and the soldier normally gives weapon proficiency I would allow them to change the feat to something else that makes sense for a soldier, or vice versa.
Pointy Hat's Tiefling reveal video actually gave a bit more information about Backgrounds.
She/Her College Student Player and Dungeon Master
Not going to lie: the 5th level feature feels... like a bit of a waste; one second level spell always prepared and one use of it. All for a spell which is mostly useful for traversal; something a lot of tables kind of gloss over. Yes; the steed technically will act in combat; but the casting time is 10 minutes; not like you'll be calling your steed to your aid in the heat of battle. So functionally; I'll use this precisely once, and only ever again if my magical ride of choice drops to 0 hit points.
So basically, you'll recast it every time your magical ride of choice is involved in a combat? In any case, the major 5th level feature is 'extra attack', divine steed is just a secondary bonus.
Even as a secondary bonus; isn't this the sort of bonus you'd want on say; a cavalier fighter and not a paladin who can just cast it normally? At the same level mind if when leveled slots remains the same.
Just saying: in all my time playing 5e, much like Blade Ward; I don't think I've ever actually seen someone cast this spell in game.
In your entire time playing it has cost a spell prep and a spell slot, now it doesn't. This is a very underestimated spell. Increasing movement speed in combat is good, increasing travel speed is also good.
Travel speed; a thing that most campaigns seem to hand-wave, WOTC's included. And exactly how many crypts, lost mines, haunted mansions, or meetings with corrupt nobles are you bringing your horse into?
It isn't as though this is granting access to the spell early either as stated before. Indeed: compare directly to another class feature that grants access to a spell: pact of the chain for the Warlock. That actually grants additional utility and options to said version of find familiar.
As it stands: this feature might as well be re-named: "save 8-200 GP"
Remember that the stat block is changing for this spell. You aren't just getting a horse, and if I can get a free horse that costs me nothing, no spell slots, no spell preps, no gold. I am taking that horse into lost mines definitely, haunted mansions at least to explore the exterior, crypts depends on the size of the crypt. You are acting like you never have any adventures in large rooms or out exploring in the wilderness or anything that the only adventures that exist are cramped locations. If that is the case the monk's movement speed upgrade is pretty useless as well. But I have seen plenty of adventures where having a horse is amazing as the extra movement speed allows you to stay at range and fire off attacks. You can even let an ally ride it if you want to be in the thick of things.
This provides utility both in and out of combat.
Awful I hate it, it’s totally soured me on these books. if it was an actually 6e I could understand changes to smite, but it’s not it’s 5.1 they should only be adding things and streamlining things not taking things away, and definitely not taking away The main defining feature of paladins.
i’ve never had an issue with players doing too much damage at the table. It’s fun, It’s memorable I’m pulling for my player's and it really not that hard to deal with hold person and counter spell are way more encounter ruining then 78 damage . They should have brought other classes up rather than bringing paladins down. It really makes me worried about the whole design ethos, it’s already feeling really homogenized and uninspired.
Also just own it if your nerfing something into the ground say it tell us way don’t try and act like your doing us a favor with a free smite and horse spell. it felt insulting.