With the introduction of weapon mastery, brutal strikes, and whatever the 9th level fighter feature is called joining battle master maneuvers there is going to be a lot more forced movement on the battlefield. Will we get official rules on damaging an enemy by pushing them into wall and there is still excess movement left on the push? Officially they take no damage because there is no rule for it but unofficially, if your table runs damage on impact, they are probably using the fall damage rules (1d6 per10 ft left of the push instead of 1d6 per 10 ft. of the fall; capping at 20d6).
Example: Barbarian uses the forceful blow option (15 ft) of their brutal strike with a push weapon (10 ft.) on enemy 5 ft. from a wall. The enemy would take weapon damage (Greatclub 1d8 + Str mod) + Brutal strike damage (1d10) + impact damage (2d6)
Is this too much? I know they changed wording to prevent abilities like this from launching enemies skyward and imposing fall damage but this would require the enemy to be in just the right spot, doesn't work out in the open, and isn't juggling them in one place. You are never going to be in a situation where this imposes 20d6, where would you cap the damage? If the wall can break and the creature breaks the wall they only take half impact damage... seems fair to me.
Do they "probably" apply y axis damage, which has gravity and terminal velocity in play, to x axis movement, where things are literally more down to earth? I can see people grasping for something, but gravity is different from momentum, and while what you're describing has a sort of cool pulp/anime savagery to it, and could lead to a lot of cool moments. I could also see a case made for not using fall presumptions for damage pertaining to the remaining kinetic energy carrying through the target's momentum.
Also do the mastery and brutality features stack?
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yes, the features stack. They already confirmed that Battle Mastery stacks and I would consider this to be similar.
I was mostly wondering if we would get official rules and then I went off on a math tangent. For x axis damage I could something like 1d4 per 10 feet left but they must have started at least 10 ft away from the wall to gain enough momentum for the impact to be meaningful but there I go again.
At the end of the day pushing enemies into spell effects is going to be the superior option. I guess this was just a thought experiment for a niche scenario.
It’s a stretch to apply fall damage to something that is very much not falling, if for no other reason than you are moving much much slower from being pushed than you are from free falling. Plus, anyone doing it is already house ruling, so I don’t know why it would be such a big deal to just keep on house ruling.
And to the question if it’s too much, I’d say no. One of my least favorite things about 5e combat is how sticky it gets — for most characters, once you’re adjacent to an enemy you both tend to stay right there until one of you drops. A little forced movement could make fights more dynamic. Say what you will about 4e, but all the forced movement powers did make the battles more interesting.
It's not complicated; forced movement + placeable zones = teamwork = depth. And even the DM can get in on the fun by putting hazards, cliffs, and other terrain features onto their encounter maps to see how the players make use of them.
If you're worried about the game becoming too easy with these new player capabilities, just use stronger monsters, or more of them, or both. Difficulty is completely within the DM's control.
One of my least favorite things about 5e combat is how sticky it gets — for most characters, once you’re adjacent to an enemy you both tend to stay right there until one of you drops
I feel like that's more about play style that anything else
People worry too much about taking opportunity attacks, and there are times when you want to goad the enemy into burning their reaction by taking a swing at your tank as they move away
Beyond that there's the Mobile feat, Swashbucker, misty step, etc etc. If you don't want to stand and slug it out, you can easily build a character who doesn't
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
One of my least favorite things about 5e combat is how sticky it gets — for most characters, once you’re adjacent to an enemy you both tend to stay right there until one of you drops
I feel like that's more about play style that anything else
People worry too much about taking opportunity attacks, and there are times when you want to goad the enemy into burning their reaction by taking a swing at your tank as they move away
Beyond that there's the Mobile feat, Swashbucker, misty step, etc etc. If you don't want to stand and slug it out, you can easily build a character who doesn't
That’s true. That’s why I said most characters. You can build a more skirmisher type. And there’s lots of ways to get misty step, etc. And sometimes you do want to just deal with the OA. But most of the time, it seems like once people engage in melee, it’s just a slugfest.
I wonder if they will be adding more movement capabilities with spells then. However if they are going to be just STR saves to not move, things are back to boring...
How does Pushing an enemy into other enemies affect combat? Does pushing an enemy into another gibe them disadvantage on their next attack? Does it give a chance of Pushing another enemy? Does it have a chance of knocking either of them Prone? Lots to consider.
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With the introduction of weapon mastery, brutal strikes, and whatever the 9th level fighter feature is called joining battle master maneuvers there is going to be a lot more forced movement on the battlefield. Will we get official rules on damaging an enemy by pushing them into wall and there is still excess movement left on the push? Officially they take no damage because there is no rule for it but unofficially, if your table runs damage on impact, they are probably using the fall damage rules (1d6 per10 ft left of the push instead of 1d6 per 10 ft. of the fall; capping at 20d6).
Example: Barbarian uses the forceful blow option (15 ft) of their brutal strike with a push weapon (10 ft.) on enemy 5 ft. from a wall. The enemy would take weapon damage (Greatclub 1d8 + Str mod) + Brutal strike damage (1d10) + impact damage (2d6)
Is this too much? I know they changed wording to prevent abilities like this from launching enemies skyward and imposing fall damage but this would require the enemy to be in just the right spot, doesn't work out in the open, and isn't juggling them in one place. You are never going to be in a situation where this imposes 20d6, where would you cap the damage? If the wall can break and the creature breaks the wall they only take half impact damage... seems fair to me.
Do they "probably" apply y axis damage, which has gravity and terminal velocity in play, to x axis movement, where things are literally more down to earth? I can see people grasping for something, but gravity is different from momentum, and while what you're describing has a sort of cool pulp/anime savagery to it, and could lead to a lot of cool moments. I could also see a case made for not using fall presumptions for damage pertaining to the remaining kinetic energy carrying through the target's momentum.
Also do the mastery and brutality features stack?
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Yes, the features stack. They already confirmed that Battle Mastery stacks and I would consider this to be similar.
I was mostly wondering if we would get official rules and then I went off on a math tangent. For x axis damage I could something like 1d4 per 10 feet left but they must have started at least 10 ft away from the wall to gain enough momentum for the impact to be meaningful but there I go again.
At the end of the day pushing enemies into spell effects is going to be the superior option. I guess this was just a thought experiment for a niche scenario.
It’s a stretch to apply fall damage to something that is very much not falling, if for no other reason than you are moving much much slower from being pushed than you are from free falling. Plus, anyone doing it is already house ruling, so I don’t know why it would be such a big deal to just keep on house ruling.
And to the question if it’s too much, I’d say no. One of my least favorite things about 5e combat is how sticky it gets — for most characters, once you’re adjacent to an enemy you both tend to stay right there until one of you drops. A little forced movement could make fights more dynamic. Say what you will about 4e, but all the forced movement powers did make the battles more interesting.
It's not complicated; forced movement + placeable zones = teamwork = depth. And even the DM can get in on the fun by putting hazards, cliffs, and other terrain features onto their encounter maps to see how the players make use of them.
If you're worried about the game becoming too easy with these new player capabilities, just use stronger monsters, or more of them, or both. Difficulty is completely within the DM's control.
I feel like that's more about play style that anything else
People worry too much about taking opportunity attacks, and there are times when you want to goad the enemy into burning their reaction by taking a swing at your tank as they move away
Beyond that there's the Mobile feat, Swashbucker, misty step, etc etc. If you don't want to stand and slug it out, you can easily build a character who doesn't
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That’s true. That’s why I said most characters. You can build a more skirmisher type. And there’s lots of ways to get misty step, etc. And sometimes you do want to just deal with the OA.
But most of the time, it seems like once people engage in melee, it’s just a slugfest.
I wonder if they will be adding more movement capabilities with spells then. However if they are going to be just STR saves to not move, things are back to boring...
TO DEFEND: THIS IS THE PACT.
BUT WHEN LIFE LOSES ITS VALUE,
AND IS TAKEN FOR NAUGHT-
THEN THE PACT IS, TO AVENGE.
How does Pushing an enemy into other enemies affect combat? Does pushing an enemy into another gibe them disadvantage on their next attack? Does it give a chance of Pushing another enemy? Does it have a chance of knocking either of them Prone? Lots to consider.