I leave every single one of these videos wanting to make new characters, but I'm going ALL IN on Abjuration wizards. What do you think about the new changes?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Your Friendly Neighborhood Community Manager (she/her) You can call me LT. :)
CM Hat On| CM Hat Off Generally active from 9am - 6pm CDT [GMT-5]. Thank you for your patience if you message me outside of those hours!
To be honest. It all seemed ok but nothing exciting. When it comes to Wizard as a class, the subclass kind of remains irrelevant compared to the spells themselves. That is the information that I want/need.
im fine with the changes tho there are only a few but the wizard was already a great class (like the paladin before the smite changes RIP my boy)
What changes? Expertise on Lore and Change a Prepared Spell on a Short Rest?
The Paladin had many good and Interesting changes. Criticizing the removal the Smite spam at a Wizard topic tells a lot about how much you play as a Wizard. hahaha
To be honest. It all seemed ok but nothing exciting. When it comes to Wizard as a class, the subclass kind of remains irrelevant compared to the spells themselves. That is the information that I want/need.
From what I recall during the playtest the Wizard had some exciting new proposals but there was a fair amount of pushback by the community. Not surprising to see the ultimate update being very small in scope. Maybe they are saving the big changes to revamp Bladesinger when it comes out so there is a reason you would want to engage in melee other than because it's a nice change of pace. An elf can dream!
To be honest. It all seemed ok but nothing exciting. When it comes to Wizard as a class, the subclass kind of remains irrelevant compared to the spells themselves. That is the information that I want/need.
From what I recall during the playtest the Wizard had some exciting new proposals but there was a fair amount of pushback by the community. Not surprising to see the ultimate update being very small in scope. Maybe they are saving the big changes to revamp Bladesinger when it comes out so there is a reason you would want to engage in melee other than because it's a nice change of pace. An elf can dream!
Sounds like what happened to Strixhaven. A lot of complaints about the books being barebones and not very complicated seems half of players hating changes and then insisting "wizard not making any smh" when they don't
Other classes got love and the Wizard got laziness.
Sorry, It was very disappointed the final version of the wizard.
Wizard was already very strong because of its spell selection, and didn't really need to be brought higher and yet they did. Meanwhile, other classes are being brought up to a level where you won't feel completely useless next to a Wizard. That said, making it so they can ritual cast from the book is insane because now you don't have to prepare spells like Find Familiar, since you're going to be ritual casting them anyway.
I thought that it was kind of funny that the way to make Illusionist better is to give it free casting of a spell from another school of magic.
Welcome to D&D, that's how every Shadow Illusion spell worked in the past 😛See Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation, and Shades from 3.5 for example.
I remember that, but all that really says is that Illusion has never been able to stand on it's own feet. I know that the Illusionist is a throw back to the ancient days of yore, but has been 50 years of trying and it still isn't any better.
They really should have updated Necromancer instead.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
That said, making it so they can ritual cast from the book is insane because now you don't have to prepare spells like Find Familiar, since you're going to be ritual casting them anyway.
Huh? They never needed to prepare ritual spells
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I remember that, but all that really says is that Illusion has never been able to stand on it's own feet. I know that the Illusionist is a throw back to the ancient days of yore, but has been 50 years of trying and it still isn't any better.
What makes you think they failed? "I can do illusions but make some of them real" has always been the endpoint of the class honestly, just like "I can make anyone my puppet" is typically the endpoint of Enchantment.
Honestly, without knowing about changes to spells it's going to be hard to evaluate the wizard, the class features seem mostly insignificant.
Agreed. As JC says in the video, the spells are the wizard’s main class feature, and they’ve both updated all the spells and added more spells. (Though I wonder how many of those are just spells from existing books getting promoted to the PHB vs. brand new spells.)
But even without that, giving every wizard a subclass spell per level (plus, I think the standard 2 per level) means a 50% increase in “free” spells per level. That will really add up over time, and encourage a more diverse spell book. You’ll be guaranteed one spell from your school you can get for your subclass features to key off of, and still have space for two more. I’m not trying to say wizards had a problem before with being too narrowly focused, just that this is a huge upgrade.
I remember that, but all that really says is that Illusion has never been able to stand on it's own feet. I know that the Illusionist is a throw back to the ancient days of yore, but has been 50 years of trying and it still isn't any better.
What makes you think they failed? "I can do illusions but make some of them real" has always been the endpoint of the class honestly, just like "I can make anyone my puppet" is typically the endpoint of Enchantment.
They really should have updated Necromancer instead.
I'm sure they'll get around to it.
(It's not the first time Necromancer has been delayed, it was the last archetype they did in 4e for example.)
That is just how I feel about it. Illusion is the least interesting school of magic and they have never been able to make it interesting in my opinion. Making it a low rent Summoner isn't making it better at being an Illusionist, it is making it a Summoner that isn't actually good at it. It is all just a matter of opinion though. If you like it, then enjoy the subclass.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
I really like the new changes, but I've loved Wizards forever! ❤️
Interesting things:
Can replace one cantrip each Long Rest.
Savant makes more sense now. More useful, for sure.
Abjurer: Dispel Magic as bonus action is really amazing
Illusionist: Illusions without Verbal component + Phantasmal Creatures
But... there is one thing I don't like :( The "Number of prepared spells is now a fixed number in the Wizard table". Using the Intelligence modifier plus Wizard level was a good way to reflect your magical abilities and mastery with it.
That is just how I feel about it. Illusion is the least interesting school of magic and they have never been able to make it interesting in my opinion. Making it a low rent Summoner isn't making it better at being an Illusionist, it is making it a Summoner that isn't actually good at it. It is all just a matter of opinion though. If you like it, then enjoy the subclass.
Honestly, it does fill a gap in illusions: 'summon an illusory monster' is a traditionally illusionist trick that wasn't available before the 8th level illusory dragon in existing books (I guess phantasmal killer also qualifies, but is complete trash). What they really need to do is clean up phantasmal force, as that's a spell which, depending on how the DM reads it, is anywhere from worthless to overpowered.
-
View User Profile
-
View Posts
-
Send Message
D&D StaffI leave every single one of these videos wanting to make new characters, but I'm going ALL IN on Abjuration wizards. What do you think about the new changes?
Your Friendly Neighborhood Community Manager (she/her)
You can call me LT. :)
CM Hat On | CM Hat Off
Generally active from 9am - 6pm CDT [GMT-5].
Thank you for your patience if you message me outside of those hours!
Useful Links: Site Rules & Guidelines | D&D Educator Resources | Change Your Nickname | Submit a Support Ticket
To be honest. It all seemed ok but nothing exciting. When it comes to Wizard as a class, the subclass kind of remains irrelevant compared to the spells themselves. That is the information that I want/need.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I thought that it was kind of funny that the way to make Illusionist better is to give it free casting of a spell from another school of magic.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Other classes got love and the Wizard got laziness.
Sorry, It was very disappointed the final version of the wizard.
im fine with the changes tho there are only a few but the wizard was already a great class (like the paladin before the smite changes RIP my boy)
I might try a wizard this revamp looks fun
What changes? Expertise on Lore and Change a Prepared Spell on a Short Rest?
The Paladin had many good and Interesting changes. Criticizing the removal the Smite spam at a Wizard topic tells a lot about how much you play as a Wizard. hahaha
From what I recall during the playtest the Wizard had some exciting new proposals but there was a fair amount of pushback by the community. Not surprising to see the ultimate update being very small in scope. Maybe they are saving the big changes to revamp Bladesinger when it comes out so there is a reason you would want to engage in melee other than because it's a nice change of pace. An elf can dream!
Sounds like what happened to Strixhaven. A lot of complaints about the books being barebones and not very complicated seems half of players hating changes and then insisting "wizard not making any smh" when they don't
Welcome to D&D, that's how every Shadow Illusion spell worked in the past 😛See Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation, and Shades from 3.5 for example.
Wizard was already very strong because of its spell selection, and didn't really need to be brought higher and yet they did. Meanwhile, other classes are being brought up to a level where you won't feel completely useless next to a Wizard. That said, making it so they can ritual cast from the book is insane because now you don't have to prepare spells like Find Familiar, since you're going to be ritual casting them anyway.
I remember that, but all that really says is that Illusion has never been able to stand on it's own feet. I know that the Illusionist is a throw back to the ancient days of yore, but has been 50 years of trying and it still isn't any better.
They really should have updated Necromancer instead.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
Huh? They never needed to prepare ritual spells
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
What makes you think they failed? "I can do illusions but make some of them real" has always been the endpoint of the class honestly, just like "I can make anyone my puppet" is typically the endpoint of Enchantment.
I'm sure they'll get around to it.
(It's not the first time Necromancer has been delayed, it was the last archetype they did in 4e for example.)
Honestly, without knowing about changes to spells it's going to be hard to evaluate the wizard, the class features seem mostly insignificant.
Agreed. As JC says in the video, the spells are the wizard’s main class feature, and they’ve both updated all the spells and added more spells. (Though I wonder how many of those are just spells from existing books getting promoted to the PHB vs. brand new spells.)
But even without that, giving every wizard a subclass spell per level (plus, I think the standard 2 per level) means a 50% increase in “free” spells per level. That will really add up over time, and encourage a more diverse spell book. You’ll be guaranteed one spell from your school you can get for your subclass features to key off of, and still have space for two more. I’m not trying to say wizards had a problem before with being too narrowly focused, just that this is a huge upgrade.
That is just how I feel about it. Illusion is the least interesting school of magic and they have never been able to make it interesting in my opinion. Making it a low rent Summoner isn't making it better at being an Illusionist, it is making it a Summoner that isn't actually good at it. It is all just a matter of opinion though. If you like it, then enjoy the subclass.
Mother and Cat Herder. Playing TTRPGs since 1989 (She/Her)
I really like the new changes, but I've loved Wizards forever! ❤️
Interesting things:
But... there is one thing I don't like :( The "Number of prepared spells is now a fixed number in the Wizard table". Using the Intelligence modifier plus Wizard level was a good way to reflect your magical abilities and mastery with it.
Not a big deal, anyway.
Honestly, it does fill a gap in illusions: 'summon an illusory monster' is a traditionally illusionist trick that wasn't available before the 8th level illusory dragon in existing books (I guess phantasmal killer also qualifies, but is complete trash). What they really need to do is clean up phantasmal force, as that's a spell which, depending on how the DM reads it, is anywhere from worthless to overpowered.
I like some of the illusions (especially summoning illusionary monsters). But the changes are trivial, and frankly the wizard didn't need buffs.