I hope this is the appropriate category, but I thought I could get some feedback on a campaign I'm playing. So my campaign has 3 players. I'm playing as a warforged artificer/wizard multiclass with subclasses armorer/abjuration. Currently lvl 4 artificer and lvl 3 wizard. My friend is also playing a warforged but as a fighter eldritch knight with a wizard dip. He's currently lvl 5 fighter and lvl 2 wizard, and he picked war magic for his wizard school. We also have an autognome cleric who has the night domain from the humblewood campaign book (DM approved it). He's currently lvl 6, and I'll explain that later.
Our campaign has had us retrieve an adamantite meteor as our first mission with a spelljammer, which we were successful. We were attacked afterwards and it was coordinated by a crewmember who was basically duped by an unknown party. We eventually found out he was working for a devil disguised as a man. We defeated this devil and took him to the temple to be interrogated. While we were alone with the devil, he essentially says he was under a contract by someone to steal the meteor for some purpose, but can't share any details about it. Our fighter had the idea of asking if entering a contract could get him to share details about what the intentions are, and the devil agreed.
The fighter's intention was to get the devil to share details prior to entering a contract, but this proved futile. When the fighter said he wouldn't enter a contract, our cleric spoke up and said he would enter the contract. The contract was that the devil gives him one gold coin. After which, the cleric is bound to help him with the task.
So after signing the contract, the devil explains that the meteor is meant to be traded to a specific person for a weapon that's effective against devils. The task for the cleric is to make this trade and bring the weapon to him. He also added that his free release is part of the contract. After he shares the details, our fighter takes it upon himself to slit the devil's throat. The cleric tries to stop this, but he is unsuccessful.
The cleric worships a chaotic good deity, and he's chaotic neutral himself. His idea with this contract was that if he never receives the gold coin, he won't be bound by the contract. When the devil died (aka, went to hell), the DM described a his body disappearing, and a single gold coin being left behind. The cleric thought if he never touches the coin he won't be bound by the contract.
This clearly didn't work. By our next session, our cleric has a dream if some sort (despite having sentry rest). In this dream, his god says he is under probation for making a contract with a devil. The DM explains this means he can't level up his cleric until he gets out of the contract. The cleric is given alternatives; multiclassing, respec for a new class, or just die and make a new character. Our cleric wants to keep his class, so he will hold his level up until then.
So for options, we found some mages who can summon the devil from hell for cost of materials (1600 gp). We did a side quest to get money, and we intend on summoning this devil to renegotiate.
For the plan, our fighter came up with an idea to get this prisoner NPC who betrayed us earlier to take the contract from him. Essentially the cleric agrees to give the NPC the meteor to this guy so he can take it to fulfill the task. After the trade, the fighter and I will take the meteor from him while the cleric is unaware. This will doom the NPC but save the cleric.
So after this, I came up with another plan. We know that the contract can be voided by the devil or by the mages or temple clerics if we know the true name of the devil. So I had an idea to accomplish this. We summon the devil and have the cleric cast bane in him. Then we cast zone of truth and suggestion. Zone of truth will ensure he can't lie, and for suggestion I thought I could suggest "the cleric's deity is aware of the contract and is displeased and now involved. It would be in your best interest to void the contract, then answer their questions with lies to misdirect them." The idea behind this is to see if he will just void the contract out of fear. If not, we ask his true name. He tries to lie because of suggestion, but he tells the truth instead because of zone of truth. If he voids the contract, we win. If he shares his true name, we win. The suggestion is worded to be as reasonable as possible. And to make him fail his saves, we have bane penalty and both the fighter and I have silvery barbs. We can force up to two rerolls on a save. Even with his advantage, it's turned into super disadvantage with a penalty.
Just a little FYI, I'm a true neutral character and the fighter is chaotic neutral. We know a little about the devil's stats and resistances because of our fight with him. I think it's a barbed devil, if I recall.
So I wanted to see what people thought of the two plans. Which one is better, improvements for success or any other feedback. Don't need a bunch of details I'm not privy to, but general advice is good.
Here's how I would be viewing the matter if I were DMing this. Your party fell prey to a classic blunder. Don't make deals with devils. Lore wise, sure, some people have fooled devils before. But it's very rare. And then they've basically had a bounty put on their heads from that point onward.
Here's the thing: The cleric made a deal. The deal is to get the weapon and give it to the devil and the devil's "free release" is part of that deal. The fighter could be said to have "freely released" the devil back to the Nine Hells so that wasn't a violation of the deal. But now the cleric is bound by the contract to retrieve the weapon and if he doesn't fulfill the contract the devil is going to own his soul.
Zone of Truth will prevent a lie on a failed save but does not force the devil to answer. So suggesting it lie will not work because it can't fulfill that suggestion. A suggestion for the devil to reveal its true name is not a reasonable suggestion as it greatly imperils the devil for mortals to know it. Breaking a contract is not a reasonable suggestion because doing so can result in the devil ceasing to exist. (This is why the devil left the gold coin. And why it wants to get the meteor/weapon.) None of those suggestions will likely work. Nor will telling the devil that the deity is displeased by the deal. Of course the cleric's deity is displeased. But that's not going to be the devil's problem. Every deity is displeased when one of their followers signs a contract with a devil. That's part of the fun of it for them. One could expect that pulling a "goodly" deity's cleric into the Nine Hells is a really good step on the path of promotion.
You might be able to use Charm Monster (4th level spell from Xanathar's Guide to Everything) to make it become a friendly acquaintance. I doubt that would get its true name out of it though. The True Name is usually something you need high level divination abilities to get. Other than that, you're going to have to offer it something else it would want (or at least believe it wants) instead. Is there some relic you could suggest that the devil would want more than the weapon? Or suggest that the devil steals the meteorite from the person your party is supposed to give it to instead? Like, "the person who hired us is exceptionally powerful and this may come back to hurt you."
Yeah, I didn't consider that zone of truth says they're aware of it. That's my oversight. It may be difficult to get the true name out of the devil, but I thought maybe it could be tricked into trying to lie, forcing it to tell the truth. It's reasonable to suggest to a devil to lie. As for voiding the contract, I didn't think there would be adverse consequences if he does so. If the contract can be renegotiated then it can be voided with mutual agreement.
I don't think there are other things we have to trade it. We have the meteor our magical items are uncommon or common. We could just fulfill the contract, but I'm afraid the cleric doing so would incur more disfavor from his diety. So I think it's either one of these two plans, or transfer the contract to one of us and fulfill it. We'd lose out on the money we'd sell that meteor for, I'm assuming a lot since it's adamantite.
Really getting out of a bargain with a devil is largely dependent on the DM setting up an opportunity or choosing to run with your attempt. You've already tried the "you didn't keep up your end" bit and the DM shot it down in typical fiendish fashion, so there's basically 3 ways this will play out: you keep up your end and let the contract resolve, you break the contract and accept the penalty, or you somehow get the contract itself annulled, which generally speaking is fairly cosmic and high tier- assuming you're working off the general D&D cosmology you can't really present a credible threat to the devil; you have no means to do anything other than cause it a bit of pain before sending it back to the Hells, whereas its superiors can demote or outright kill it and while there's sometimes a physical vessel of the contract that can be destroyed, that's going to be back on the Hells behind 4th-tier defenses. So, either of those basically involves the DM choosing to deus ex you a solution.
If you as a player are really concerned about your agency here, this is something you should probably bring up with the DM directly rather than trawling the internet for workarounds.
Really getting out of a bargain with a devil is largely dependent on the DM setting up an opportunity or choosing to run with your attempt. You've already tried the "you didn't keep up your end" bit and the DM shot it down in typical fiendish fashion, so there's basically 3 ways this will play out: you keep up your end and let the contract resolve, you break the contract and accept the penalty, or you somehow get the contract itself annulled, which generally speaking is fairly cosmic and high tier- assuming you're working off the general D&D cosmology you can't really present a credible threat to the devil; you have no means to do anything other than cause it a bit of pain before sending it back to the Hells, whereas its superiors can demote or outright kill it and while there's sometimes a physical vessel of the contract that can be destroyed, that's going to be back on the Hells behind 4th-tier defenses. So, either of those basically involves the DM choosing to deus ex you a solution.
If you as a player are really concerned about your agency here, this is something you should probably bring up with the DM directly rather than trawling the internet for workarounds.
Yeah, I'll probably pitch the idea to one of the mage NPCs that are part of thy demonology department. The DM can tell me through them whether it's a good idea or not. So far, they have said trying to transfer the contract is the best and easiest option. That will doom the NPC, but we don't really care about that. I'm sure the DM won't make it easy to steal the meteor back though.
But if we give the meteor away to the NPC, I was thinking I could hide inside my bag of holding which is hidden inside the meteor. Since I'm warforged, I don't need to breathe. I have a tressym as a familiar, and I can observe everything outside through his eyes. Then when I want to get out, I can use misty step since I'm able to see outside the bag with my familiar. That way I can stay with the meteor.
Really getting out of a bargain with a devil is largely dependent on the DM setting up an opportunity or choosing to run with your attempt. You've already tried the "you didn't keep up your end" bit and the DM shot it down in typical fiendish fashion, so there's basically 3 ways this will play out: you keep up your end and let the contract resolve, you break the contract and accept the penalty, or you somehow get the contract itself annulled, which generally speaking is fairly cosmic and high tier- assuming you're working off the general D&D cosmology you can't really present a credible threat to the devil; you have no means to do anything other than cause it a bit of pain before sending it back to the Hells, whereas its superiors can demote or outright kill it and while there's sometimes a physical vessel of the contract that can be destroyed, that's going to be back on the Hells behind 4th-tier defenses. So, either of those basically involves the DM choosing to deus ex you a solution.
If you as a player are really concerned about your agency here, this is something you should probably bring up with the DM directly rather than trawling the internet for workarounds.
Yeah, I'll probably pitch the idea to one of the mage NPCs that are part of thy demonology department. The DM can tell me through them whether it's a good idea or not. So far, they have said trying to transfer the contract is the best and easiest option. That will doom the NPC, but we don't really care about that. I'm sure the DM won't make it easy to steal the meteor back though.
But if we give the meteor away to the NPC, I was thinking I could hide inside my bag of holding which is hidden inside the meteor. Since I'm warforged, I don't need to breathe. I have a tressym as a familiar, and I can observe everything outside through his eyes. Then when I want to get out, I can use misty step since I'm able to see outside the bag with my familiar. That way I can stay with the meteor.
As a note, the inside of a bag of holding exists in an extra-dimensional space - it does not necessarily exist within the same reality as your familiar. Typically, you can only see through a familiar’s eyes if you are within 100 feet of it - even if the bag of holding might be within 100 feet, there is a strong argument that the contents are located an infinite distance away from the familiar, as they are not even within the same dimension as the familiar.
A DM would have to make a ruling on that - but, I know if I were the DM (or the player), I would rule you cannot see through the familiar when in extra dimensional space.
Yeah, I'll probably pitch the idea to one of the mage NPCs that are part of thy demonology department. The DM can tell me through them whether it's a good idea or not. So far, they have said trying to transfer the contract is the best and easiest option. That will doom the NPC, but we don't really care about that. I'm sure the DM won't make it easy to steal the meteor back though.
But if we give the meteor away to the NPC, I was thinking I could hide inside my bag of holding which is hidden inside the meteor. Since I'm warforged, I don't need to breathe. I have a tressym as a familiar, and I can observe everything outside through his eyes. Then when I want to get out, I can use misty step since I'm able to see outside the bag with my familiar. That way I can stay with the meteor.
As a note, the inside of a bag of holding exists in an extra-dimensional space - it does not necessarily exist within the same reality as your familiar. Typically, you can only see through a familiar’s eyes if you are within 100 feet of it - even if the bag of holding might be within 100 feet, there is a strong argument that the contents are located an infinite distance away from the familiar, as they are not even within the same dimension as the familiar.
A DM would have to make a ruling on that - but, I know if I were the DM (or the player), I would rule you cannot see through the familiar when in extra dimensional space.
Yeah, I would say it could still work because the extradimensional space has an opening readily available, the link could go out the top. But I can test it ahead of time to see if the DM allows it.
So I thought of something. Do you think detect thoughts would be successful on the devil to get its true name? I would use this in conjunction with bane and silvery barbs. The cleric uses bane, and the fighter and I have silvery barbs. Better chance of success?
Exactly how much does this meteor weigh? Have you checked to see if you can actually sell it for more than 1,600 gold?
We haven't checked with the buyer yet. But we weren't going to get the 1600 gold that way. Trading the meteor for the weapon is part of the cleric's contract. Selling it may immediately trigger a violation of that contract, and the cleric's soul will be forfeit.
Yes, you're doing side quests to earn 1,600 gold which you will then spend on summoning the devil so you can attempt Operation "Let's Break A Deal!" Then you can later sell the meteor for profit.
So my ques6tion is, which is more profitable? Trading the meteor for the weapon, completing the contract and keeping the 1,600 gold? Or spending the 1,600 gold, beating the devil and then selling the meteor?
Yes, you're doing side quests to earn 1,600 gold which you will then spend on summoning the devil so you can attempt Operation "Let's Break A Deal!" Then you can later sell the meteor for profit.
So my ques6tion is, which is more profitable? Trading the meteor for the weapon, completing the contract and keeping the 1,600 gold? Or spending the 1,600 gold, beating the devil and then selling the meteor?
That's a fair question. I imagine it will be much more, but we can check with the buyer to do a cost benefit analysis. The problem, however, is that I believe fulfilling the contract will cause greater disfavor between him and his deity. We can't renegotiate the contract without summoning him, so breaking or renegotiating the deal will require the summoning either way. Unless our cleric doesn't care about being a cleric anymore... but he surely does care.
Well, asking it its true name while Detect Thoughts is going is a pretty good plan. It's like telling someone to not think 'Red'. Most people will immediately think red.
Worst case scenario, the cleric can change deities and keep his class. Asmodeus has clerics too. He might need to change to a true neutral alignment though. You can usually only be one step away from your deity's alignment.
Well, asking it its true name while Detect Thoughts is going is a pretty good plan. It's like telling someone to not think 'Red'. Most people will immediately think red.
Worst case scenario, the cleric can change deities and keep his class. Asmodeus has clerics too. He might need to change to a true neutral alignment though. You can usually only be one step away from your deity's alignment.
That's true, but I think he'd need to adjust his alignment for Asmodeus because he's chaotic neutral and Asmodeus is lawful evil.
The beauty of the plan is I can cast detect thoughts right before they summon him. That would make him completely unaware I can read his surface thoughts, and thus keep him off guard. If for some reason I can't get his true name from surface thoughts, we can stack bane and mind sliver for a penalty 2d4 to his save (both the fighter and I know mind sliver). If that's not enough, the fighter and I also know silvery barbs to force two rerolls on one save. With that setup and a DC 15, he's very likely to fail.
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I hope this is the appropriate category, but I thought I could get some feedback on a campaign I'm playing. So my campaign has 3 players. I'm playing as a warforged artificer/wizard multiclass with subclasses armorer/abjuration. Currently lvl 4 artificer and lvl 3 wizard. My friend is also playing a warforged but as a fighter eldritch knight with a wizard dip. He's currently lvl 5 fighter and lvl 2 wizard, and he picked war magic for his wizard school. We also have an autognome cleric who has the night domain from the humblewood campaign book (DM approved it). He's currently lvl 6, and I'll explain that later.
Our campaign has had us retrieve an adamantite meteor as our first mission with a spelljammer, which we were successful. We were attacked afterwards and it was coordinated by a crewmember who was basically duped by an unknown party. We eventually found out he was working for a devil disguised as a man. We defeated this devil and took him to the temple to be interrogated. While we were alone with the devil, he essentially says he was under a contract by someone to steal the meteor for some purpose, but can't share any details about it. Our fighter had the idea of asking if entering a contract could get him to share details about what the intentions are, and the devil agreed.
The fighter's intention was to get the devil to share details prior to entering a contract, but this proved futile. When the fighter said he wouldn't enter a contract, our cleric spoke up and said he would enter the contract. The contract was that the devil gives him one gold coin. After which, the cleric is bound to help him with the task.
So after signing the contract, the devil explains that the meteor is meant to be traded to a specific person for a weapon that's effective against devils. The task for the cleric is to make this trade and bring the weapon to him. He also added that his free release is part of the contract. After he shares the details, our fighter takes it upon himself to slit the devil's throat. The cleric tries to stop this, but he is unsuccessful.
The cleric worships a chaotic good deity, and he's chaotic neutral himself. His idea with this contract was that if he never receives the gold coin, he won't be bound by the contract. When the devil died (aka, went to hell), the DM described a his body disappearing, and a single gold coin being left behind. The cleric thought if he never touches the coin he won't be bound by the contract.
This clearly didn't work. By our next session, our cleric has a dream if some sort (despite having sentry rest). In this dream, his god says he is under probation for making a contract with a devil. The DM explains this means he can't level up his cleric until he gets out of the contract. The cleric is given alternatives; multiclassing, respec for a new class, or just die and make a new character. Our cleric wants to keep his class, so he will hold his level up until then.
So for options, we found some mages who can summon the devil from hell for cost of materials (1600 gp). We did a side quest to get money, and we intend on summoning this devil to renegotiate.
For the plan, our fighter came up with an idea to get this prisoner NPC who betrayed us earlier to take the contract from him. Essentially the cleric agrees to give the NPC the meteor to this guy so he can take it to fulfill the task. After the trade, the fighter and I will take the meteor from him while the cleric is unaware. This will doom the NPC but save the cleric.
So after this, I came up with another plan. We know that the contract can be voided by the devil or by the mages or temple clerics if we know the true name of the devil. So I had an idea to accomplish this. We summon the devil and have the cleric cast bane in him. Then we cast zone of truth and suggestion. Zone of truth will ensure he can't lie, and for suggestion I thought I could suggest "the cleric's deity is aware of the contract and is displeased and now involved. It would be in your best interest to void the contract, then answer their questions with lies to misdirect them." The idea behind this is to see if he will just void the contract out of fear. If not, we ask his true name. He tries to lie because of suggestion, but he tells the truth instead because of zone of truth. If he voids the contract, we win. If he shares his true name, we win. The suggestion is worded to be as reasonable as possible. And to make him fail his saves, we have bane penalty and both the fighter and I have silvery barbs. We can force up to two rerolls on a save. Even with his advantage, it's turned into super disadvantage with a penalty.
Just a little FYI, I'm a true neutral character and the fighter is chaotic neutral. We know a little about the devil's stats and resistances because of our fight with him. I think it's a barbed devil, if I recall.
So I wanted to see what people thought of the two plans. Which one is better, improvements for success or any other feedback. Don't need a bunch of details I'm not privy to, but general advice is good.
Here's how I would be viewing the matter if I were DMing this. Your party fell prey to a classic blunder. Don't make deals with devils. Lore wise, sure, some people have fooled devils before. But it's very rare. And then they've basically had a bounty put on their heads from that point onward.
Here's the thing: The cleric made a deal. The deal is to get the weapon and give it to the devil and the devil's "free release" is part of that deal. The fighter could be said to have "freely released" the devil back to the Nine Hells so that wasn't a violation of the deal. But now the cleric is bound by the contract to retrieve the weapon and if he doesn't fulfill the contract the devil is going to own his soul.
Zone of Truth will prevent a lie on a failed save but does not force the devil to answer. So suggesting it lie will not work because it can't fulfill that suggestion. A suggestion for the devil to reveal its true name is not a reasonable suggestion as it greatly imperils the devil for mortals to know it. Breaking a contract is not a reasonable suggestion because doing so can result in the devil ceasing to exist. (This is why the devil left the gold coin. And why it wants to get the meteor/weapon.) None of those suggestions will likely work. Nor will telling the devil that the deity is displeased by the deal. Of course the cleric's deity is displeased. But that's not going to be the devil's problem. Every deity is displeased when one of their followers signs a contract with a devil. That's part of the fun of it for them. One could expect that pulling a "goodly" deity's cleric into the Nine Hells is a really good step on the path of promotion.
You might be able to use Charm Monster (4th level spell from Xanathar's Guide to Everything) to make it become a friendly acquaintance. I doubt that would get its true name out of it though. The True Name is usually something you need high level divination abilities to get. Other than that, you're going to have to offer it something else it would want (or at least believe it wants) instead. Is there some relic you could suggest that the devil would want more than the weapon? Or suggest that the devil steals the meteorite from the person your party is supposed to give it to instead? Like, "the person who hired us is exceptionally powerful and this may come back to hurt you."
Yeah, I didn't consider that zone of truth says they're aware of it. That's my oversight. It may be difficult to get the true name out of the devil, but I thought maybe it could be tricked into trying to lie, forcing it to tell the truth. It's reasonable to suggest to a devil to lie. As for voiding the contract, I didn't think there would be adverse consequences if he does so. If the contract can be renegotiated then it can be voided with mutual agreement.
I don't think there are other things we have to trade it. We have the meteor our magical items are uncommon or common. We could just fulfill the contract, but I'm afraid the cleric doing so would incur more disfavor from his diety. So I think it's either one of these two plans, or transfer the contract to one of us and fulfill it. We'd lose out on the money we'd sell that meteor for, I'm assuming a lot since it's adamantite.
Really getting out of a bargain with a devil is largely dependent on the DM setting up an opportunity or choosing to run with your attempt. You've already tried the "you didn't keep up your end" bit and the DM shot it down in typical fiendish fashion, so there's basically 3 ways this will play out: you keep up your end and let the contract resolve, you break the contract and accept the penalty, or you somehow get the contract itself annulled, which generally speaking is fairly cosmic and high tier- assuming you're working off the general D&D cosmology you can't really present a credible threat to the devil; you have no means to do anything other than cause it a bit of pain before sending it back to the Hells, whereas its superiors can demote or outright kill it and while there's sometimes a physical vessel of the contract that can be destroyed, that's going to be back on the Hells behind 4th-tier defenses. So, either of those basically involves the DM choosing to deus ex you a solution.
If you as a player are really concerned about your agency here, this is something you should probably bring up with the DM directly rather than trawling the internet for workarounds.
Yeah, I'll probably pitch the idea to one of the mage NPCs that are part of thy demonology department. The DM can tell me through them whether it's a good idea or not. So far, they have said trying to transfer the contract is the best and easiest option. That will doom the NPC, but we don't really care about that. I'm sure the DM won't make it easy to steal the meteor back though.
But if we give the meteor away to the NPC, I was thinking I could hide inside my bag of holding which is hidden inside the meteor. Since I'm warforged, I don't need to breathe. I have a tressym as a familiar, and I can observe everything outside through his eyes. Then when I want to get out, I can use misty step since I'm able to see outside the bag with my familiar. That way I can stay with the meteor.
As a note, the inside of a bag of holding exists in an extra-dimensional space - it does not necessarily exist within the same reality as your familiar. Typically, you can only see through a familiar’s eyes if you are within 100 feet of it - even if the bag of holding might be within 100 feet, there is a strong argument that the contents are located an infinite distance away from the familiar, as they are not even within the same dimension as the familiar.
A DM would have to make a ruling on that - but, I know if I were the DM (or the player), I would rule you cannot see through the familiar when in extra dimensional space.
Yeah, I would say it could still work because the extradimensional space has an opening readily available, the link could go out the top. But I can test it ahead of time to see if the DM allows it.
So I thought of something. Do you think detect thoughts would be successful on the devil to get its true name? I would use this in conjunction with bane and silvery barbs. The cleric uses bane, and the fighter and I have silvery barbs. Better chance of success?
Exactly how much does this meteor weigh? Have you checked to see if you can actually sell it for more than 1,600 gold?
We haven't checked with the buyer yet. But we weren't going to get the 1600 gold that way. Trading the meteor for the weapon is part of the cleric's contract. Selling it may immediately trigger a violation of that contract, and the cleric's soul will be forfeit.
Yes, you're doing side quests to earn 1,600 gold which you will then spend on summoning the devil so you can attempt Operation "Let's Break A Deal!" Then you can later sell the meteor for profit.
So my ques6tion is, which is more profitable? Trading the meteor for the weapon, completing the contract and keeping the 1,600 gold? Or spending the 1,600 gold, beating the devil and then selling the meteor?
That's a fair question. I imagine it will be much more, but we can check with the buyer to do a cost benefit analysis. The problem, however, is that I believe fulfilling the contract will cause greater disfavor between him and his deity. We can't renegotiate the contract without summoning him, so breaking or renegotiating the deal will require the summoning either way. Unless our cleric doesn't care about being a cleric anymore... but he surely does care.
Well, asking it its true name while Detect Thoughts is going is a pretty good plan. It's like telling someone to not think 'Red'. Most people will immediately think red.
Worst case scenario, the cleric can change deities and keep his class. Asmodeus has clerics too. He might need to change to a true neutral alignment though. You can usually only be one step away from your deity's alignment.
That's true, but I think he'd need to adjust his alignment for Asmodeus because he's chaotic neutral and Asmodeus is lawful evil.
The beauty of the plan is I can cast detect thoughts right before they summon him. That would make him completely unaware I can read his surface thoughts, and thus keep him off guard. If for some reason I can't get his true name from surface thoughts, we can stack bane and mind sliver for a penalty 2d4 to his save (both the fighter and I know mind sliver). If that's not enough, the fighter and I also know silvery barbs to force two rerolls on one save. With that setup and a DC 15, he's very likely to fail.