I saw this on EN World, shown at GenCon, and I'm not sure if it has been shared on the forums before. Let me know if there's already a thread about it so I can join.
I don't see Legendary or Lair Actions in the statblock, so I guess they are now replaced by more than one reaction per turn. Not a bad change, to be honest. I like it.
It means you can't have effects with different costs, which is a drawback, and I'm not sure it will actually be easier to play (now you have to track all the possible trigger conditions instead of just "end of turn"), but I'd have to look at it more in play to decide what I think of it. It does appear to have more customization than 2014 dragons, it might no longer be "same monster other than the paint job and damage type".
It's really worth pointing out how the new statblock format manages to make discerning important information harder.
With the old format, you get the save DC and type from a quick glance, the three words are right together. "DC 22 Constitution", for example. Here, the words "saving throw" interrupt the important information and thus make it harder to get the important bits.
Which leads to the other problem. Note how "failure" and "success" are italicized, reflecting that they are part of formatting. Thus, a player quickly glancing may pass over the italicized bits, because they know "this is the save info, this is the fail result, this is the past result". Except they put the type of saving throw into the italics text, which is obviously important information, but is formatted like it's unimportant text. (Not to mention the unnecessary Capitalization that further draws unnecessary emphasis.)
Yeah, they did this with the Time Dragon last year in the Planescape book. Personally, I find turning the dragon's multiattack into three generic "rend" attacks is worse.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I would note that there's a pretty extensive history of fiddling with 'boss' monster stat blocks, extending back into 4th edition (which tried a whole bunch of different mechanics -- special reactions, free action triggers, effects occurring at a specific initiative score, multiple initiative scores for monsters, auras, probably other things I can't think of right now) and it's clear that none of them quite hit the mark, because if it had they would have stuck with it.
There might still be lair actions -- lair actions in 2014 aren't in the creature statblock, they're in the lair section (which might as well be its own statblock, as it has standardized components).
Because they are Reactions, the monster is dangerous inside and outside of its lair.
Lair actions were in addition to Legendary actions, and they've got approximately the same Reactions as they would Legendary actions, so no they have not changed in lair/out of lair power notably, or they've made in lair worse if there really aren't Lair actions because those tended to be stronger than basic Legendary actions.
Yeah, they did this with the Time Dragon last year in the Planescape book. Personally, I find turning the dragon's multiattack into three generic "rend" attacks is worse.
To be honest 3/4ths of the monster manual was Bite + Claw and even for the dragons, the two are basically identical minus biting doing poison damage. So 3 generic attacks while less flavorful are still pretty much the exact same as the 2014 version if the DM just said he strikes out at you with a bite, then a claw. The only difference being poison damage, otherwise a player would never know you were using a different attack. Generic just makes it easier to run the monster, and doesn't really change anything as long as a Dm can be smart enough to describe the attacks differently.
I notice that it gets 1 additional Reaction in its lair. That could well indicate that they're scrapping Lairs as a separate mechanic and just buffing the creature itself instead. It's simpler, that's for sure...
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I'll be depressed if that's the case. Monster blocks are getting way too dumbed down, especially the ones that are supposed to have varied movesets or be flexible.
As mentioned in this thread, the final version of Green Dragons (and others) has Legendary Actions, not a Reaction as shown in the image.
I'm wondering what the reason could have been.
It was just poor design. If you read the first "Reaction" , charming presence it just exactly described a "Legendary Action". And some of the reactions players could game, e.g. ok we just wont do anything ranged attacks this round, or we wont do any damage this round, just to avoid specific Reactions. Legendary actions are such an elegant design for 1 v many battles, I am relieved they changed their minds.
It was a bit clunky and most monsters didn't need it. Though for certain creatures I would be tempted by
The <creature> can take 3 legendary actions, choosing from the options below. Only one legendary action option can be used at a time and only at the end of another creature’s turnper turn. Legendary actions may be used as specified in the trigger statement, or at the end of another creature's turn if no trigger is specified. The <creature> regains spent legendary actions at the start of its turn.
Another way of doing this (with marginally different effects) is
Legendary Reactions: the <creature> may take an additional reaction by spending a legendary action, but may not take more than one reaction per turn, nor use a legendary action in the same turn it uses this ability.
I saw this on EN World, shown at GenCon, and I'm not sure if it has been shared on the forums before. Let me know if there's already a thread about it so I can join.
I don't see Legendary or Lair Actions in the statblock, so I guess they are now replaced by more than one reaction per turn. Not a bad change, to be honest. I like it.
It means you can't have effects with different costs, which is a drawback, and I'm not sure it will actually be easier to play (now you have to track all the possible trigger conditions instead of just "end of turn"), but I'd have to look at it more in play to decide what I think of it. It does appear to have more customization than 2014 dragons, it might no longer be "same monster other than the paint job and damage type".
It's really worth pointing out how the new statblock format manages to make discerning important information harder.
With the old format, you get the save DC and type from a quick glance, the three words are right together. "DC 22 Constitution", for example. Here, the words "saving throw" interrupt the important information and thus make it harder to get the important bits.
Which leads to the other problem. Note how "failure" and "success" are italicized, reflecting that they are part of formatting. Thus, a player quickly glancing may pass over the italicized bits, because they know "this is the save info, this is the fail result, this is the past result". Except they put the type of saving throw into the italics text, which is obviously important information, but is formatted like it's unimportant text. (Not to mention the unnecessary Capitalization that further draws unnecessary emphasis.)
Yeah, they did this with the Time Dragon last year in the Planescape book. Personally, I find turning the dragon's multiattack into three generic "rend" attacks is worse.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
This is very true and I totally agree.
Really like this new statblock. The new abilities make it feel more like a 'green dragon'.
The 2014 dragons felt more like a block of HP with some [insert damage type here].
I would note that there's a pretty extensive history of fiddling with 'boss' monster stat blocks, extending back into 4th edition (which tried a whole bunch of different mechanics -- special reactions, free action triggers, effects occurring at a specific initiative score, multiple initiative scores for monsters, auras, probably other things I can't think of right now) and it's clear that none of them quite hit the mark, because if it had they would have stuck with it.
There might still be lair actions -- lair actions in 2014 aren't in the creature statblock, they're in the lair section (which might as well be its own statblock, as it has standardized components).
Because they are Reactions, the monster is dangerous inside and outside of its lair.
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"real life is a super high CR."
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Kuo-Toas and Skeletons (from Christian Hoffer):
Lair actions were in addition to Legendary actions, and they've got approximately the same Reactions as they would Legendary actions, so no they have not changed in lair/out of lair power notably, or they've made in lair worse if there really aren't Lair actions because those tended to be stronger than basic Legendary actions.
To be honest 3/4ths of the monster manual was Bite + Claw and even for the dragons, the two are basically identical minus biting doing poison damage. So 3 generic attacks while less flavorful are still pretty much the exact same as the 2014 version if the DM just said he strikes out at you with a bite, then a claw. The only difference being poison damage, otherwise a player would never know you were using a different attack. Generic just makes it easier to run the monster, and doesn't really change anything as long as a Dm can be smart enough to describe the attacks differently.
I notice that it gets 1 additional Reaction in its lair. That could well indicate that they're scrapping Lairs as a separate mechanic and just buffing the creature itself instead. It's simpler, that's for sure...
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I'll be depressed if that's the case. Monster blocks are getting way too dumbed down, especially the ones that are supposed to have varied movesets or be flexible.
As mentioned in this thread, the final version of Green Dragons (and others) has Legendary Actions, not a Reaction as shown in the image.
I'm wondering what the reason could have been.
It was just poor design. If you read the first "Reaction" , charming presence it just exactly described a "Legendary Action".
And some of the reactions players could game, e.g. ok we just wont do anything ranged attacks this round, or we wont do any damage this round, just to avoid specific Reactions.
Legendary actions are such an elegant design for 1 v many battles, I am relieved they changed their minds.
Handy tool, full blown, advanced, D&D 5e combat simulator: https://dndbattle.com
Me too! :)
It was a bit clunky and most monsters didn't need it. Though for certain creatures I would be tempted by
Another way of doing this (with marginally different effects) is