Youtubers and designers indicated that legendary actions were going away in the 2024 edition. Did the Youtubers get it wrong or did the designers change their mind last minute?
Legendary Actions haven't gone away. Quite the contrary, actually.
Previously, a monster with three Legendary Actions would typically have three options. Some would cost more actions, though, so the monster might only get one or two. Now, their options have seemingly been all reduced from three to two; with a fourth potential use of their Legendary Actions while in their Lair. This is mostly done to replace Lair Actions as a mechanic, which took up valuable page space, and I think that was a mistake for multiple reasons.
Creatures that had Lair Actions in 2014, like adult and ancient dragons, have lost some of their uniqueness.
Lair Actions helped offset the reduction in Legendary Actions a creature has as the number of combatants in a given combat encounter gradually reduces.
Supplements, like Fizban's Treasury of Dragons, have been rendered increasingly irrelevant because there's no mechanic in the 2025 Monster Manual to graft its unique Lair Actions on to.
Some things are better mechanically, some aren't, and I sincerely hope a complete overhaul of the homebrew creator is in the works.
It's true that something has changed between the 2025 Monster Manual previewed at Gen Con and now. I remember posting the following image in Ancient Green Dragon (reactions instead of Legendary/Lair Actions), but the current Ancient Dragon is different: it has Legendary Actions again instead of Reactions.
It's true that something has changed between the 2025 Monster Manual previewed at Gen Con and now. I remember posting the following image in Ancient Green Dragon (reactions instead of Legendary/Lair Actions), but the current Ancient Dragon is different: it has Legendary Actions again instead of Reactions.
The structure you see there, with the extra Reactions instead of Legendary Actions, was also used for the Time Dragons in the Planescape book. It certainly seemed like the way things were headed.
It's true that something has changed between the 2025 Monster Manual previewed at Gen Con and now. I remember posting the following image in Ancient Green Dragon (reactions instead of Legendary/Lair Actions), but the current Ancient Dragon is different: it has Legendary Actions again instead of Reactions.
The structure you see there, with the extra Reactions instead of Legendary Actions, was also used for the Time Dragons in the Planescape book. It certainly seemed like the way things were headed.
The simple fix here is to just let the dragons use a legendary action as a lair action using those sources. That's what I'm doing. Gives my dragons more uses and versatility. It's the best part about being the DM if they change something you don't like. Change it back.
The simple fix here is to just let the dragons use a legendary action as a lair action using those sources. That's what I'm doing. Gives my dragons more uses and versatility. It's the best part about being the DM if they change something you don't like. Change it back.
I'd rather give them both because those lair actions don't always translate to a CR bump. The revised rules do. Strahd, for example, is the equivalent of a CR 18 monster in his lair if you give him four legendary actions and four uses of legendary resistance. I know because I did the math. So far, the old CR rules for building monsters seem to still apply. They're just not reprinted and/or updated for the benefit of the DM. I find this doubly disappointing because some monsters haven't appreciably changed and are still wrong. One additional Hit Die a CR 2 Ogre does not make.
While these legendary creatures are more mechanically sound, I think the real issue is the continued availability of older books. They're going to disappear from store shelves, and newer players aren't going to buy both sets of books on DDB. As legacy materials continue to be phased out, I'm more than a little worried that we're right back to oral tradition of D&D.
The simple fix here is to just let the dragons use a legendary action as a lair action using those sources. That's what I'm doing. Gives my dragons more uses and versatility. It's the best part about being the DM if they change something you don't like. Change it back.
I'd rather give them both because those lair actions don't always translate to a CR bump. The revised rules do. Strahd, for example, is the equivalent of a CR 18 monster in his lair if you give him four legendary actions and four uses of legendary resistance. I know because I did the math. So far, the old CR rules for building monsters seem to still apply. They're just not reprinted and/or updated for the benefit of the DM. I find this doubly disappointing because some monsters haven't appreciably changed and are still wrong. One additional Hit Die a CR 2 Ogre does not make.
While these legendary creatures are more mechanically sound, I think the real issue is the continued availability of older books. They're going to disappear from store shelves, and newer players aren't going to buy both sets of books on DDB. As legacy materials continue to be phased out, I'm more than a little worried that we're right back to oral tradition of D&D.
I'm new to D&D, so can you elaborate?
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Hey! I make (what I believe to be, could use some feedback) good homebrew!
The 2014 DMG rules always had a hit point anomaly, where they gave low CR monsters way too high hit points. The Ogre is pretty normal for CR 2 -- it's above average hit points, below average damage, but neither is dramatic.
The 2014 DMG rules always had a hit point anomaly, where they gave low CR monsters way too high hit points. The Ogre is pretty normal for CR 2 -- it's above average hit points, below average damage, but neither is dramatic.
They increased hit points without increasing other defenses. The suggested AC didn't improve until CR 4; when the first ASI was expected to happen. Whether the table was correct or not is irrelevant, and I can say the same for monsters with more complex action economies. I'm criticizing failed efforts to adhere to the published rules for even simple creatures. There's a sort of dissonance when following the rules as written creates far stronger creatures than are in the books.
I am happy the new and revised stat blocks are more intuitive and so are more likely to hit their targets. But refusing to publish whatever revised formulae WotC might be working with, especially after not revising creatures that obviously didn't hit the previously established benchmarks, just tells me they have something to hide.
I am happy the new and revised stat blocks are more intuitive and so are more likely to hit their targets. But refusing to publish whatever revised formulae WotC might be working with, especially after not revising creatures that obviously didn't hit the previously established benchmarks, just tells me they have something to hide.
They're not really hiding that the 2014 rules aren't actually the rules they're using -- they're close, but by no means exact.
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Youtubers and designers indicated that legendary actions were going away in the 2024 edition. Did the Youtubers get it wrong or did the designers change their mind last minute?
Legendary Actions haven't gone away. Quite the contrary, actually.
Previously, a monster with three Legendary Actions would typically have three options. Some would cost more actions, though, so the monster might only get one or two. Now, their options have seemingly been all reduced from three to two; with a fourth potential use of their Legendary Actions while in their Lair. This is mostly done to replace Lair Actions as a mechanic, which took up valuable page space, and I think that was a mistake for multiple reasons.
Some things are better mechanically, some aren't, and I sincerely hope a complete overhaul of the homebrew creator is in the works.
It's true that something has changed between the 2025 Monster Manual previewed at Gen Con and now. I remember posting the following image in Ancient Green Dragon (reactions instead of Legendary/Lair Actions), but the current Ancient Dragon is different: it has Legendary Actions again instead of Reactions.
The structure you see there, with the extra Reactions instead of Legendary Actions, was also used for the Time Dragons in the Planescape book. It certainly seemed like the way things were headed.
Thanks, mate, I didn't know that!
The simple fix here is to just let the dragons use a legendary action as a lair action using those sources. That's what I'm doing. Gives my dragons more uses and versatility. It's the best part about being the DM if they change something you don't like. Change it back.
I'd rather give them both because those lair actions don't always translate to a CR bump. The revised rules do. Strahd, for example, is the equivalent of a CR 18 monster in his lair if you give him four legendary actions and four uses of legendary resistance. I know because I did the math. So far, the old CR rules for building monsters seem to still apply. They're just not reprinted and/or updated for the benefit of the DM. I find this doubly disappointing because some monsters haven't appreciably changed and are still wrong. One additional Hit Die a CR 2 Ogre does not make.
While these legendary creatures are more mechanically sound, I think the real issue is the continued availability of older books. They're going to disappear from store shelves, and newer players aren't going to buy both sets of books on DDB. As legacy materials continue to be phased out, I'm more than a little worried that we're right back to oral tradition of D&D.
I'm new to D&D, so can you elaborate?
Hey! I make (what I believe to be, could use some feedback) good homebrew!
Click here!
Please tell me what you think!
The 2014 DMG rules always had a hit point anomaly, where they gave low CR monsters way too high hit points. The Ogre is pretty normal for CR 2 -- it's above average hit points, below average damage, but neither is dramatic.
They increased hit points without increasing other defenses. The suggested AC didn't improve until CR 4; when the first ASI was expected to happen. Whether the table was correct or not is irrelevant, and I can say the same for monsters with more complex action economies. I'm criticizing failed efforts to adhere to the published rules for even simple creatures. There's a sort of dissonance when following the rules as written creates far stronger creatures than are in the books.
I am happy the new and revised stat blocks are more intuitive and so are more likely to hit their targets. But refusing to publish whatever revised formulae WotC might be working with, especially after not revising creatures that obviously didn't hit the previously established benchmarks, just tells me they have something to hide.
They're not really hiding that the 2014 rules aren't actually the rules they're using -- they're close, but by no means exact.