I think PBIF was okay. I didn't mind that it shoehorned me into a select group of options. This allowed the DM to have a narrower scope in how to add elements of a character to a game. "Okay, you have a secret, you don't play well with others, everyone else is wrong, and you like tuna sandwiches. Got it ..." We NEVER used it with Inspiration however, in fact we never use inspiration at all. Because of that I was shocked that the designers felt making the Human an "inspiration battery" for the party was the way to go.
I would consider the new version as what you will find on page 38, on how to incorporate your ability scores to your character appearance and personality. I got it, not as broad as PBIF, but it too can be a starting point for finding your character's "voice".
I think PBIF was okay. I didn't mind that it shoehorned me into a select group of options.
Did you think the tables were the only options and that you couldn't write your own?
This is my favorite part of talking on the internet; people who stretch what you say to absurd conclusions.
Me: I like vanilla ice cream, even though it is rather basic. You: OMG! Did you ever think you could order a flavor other than vanilla??!!??
You don't know me from doodle (which is fine, you're not expected to) but I've been TTRPGing since 1978. I don't need the PFIB to create a character background. However, I didn't mind having a limited group of options on those occasions when I did choose to go along with them. The advantage of having a specific set is it allows the DM familiarity to something they may have seen before. "Lori's character in the last campaign had this flaw. I did this with it then, let me change that for David this time." That doesn't mean a DM can't work ANY background idea into something meaningful, but it does allow temporary DMs (such as those working events) to have some premade concepts when a player shows up with XXX on their sheet.
I don't know why you felt the need to patronize me. That was a pretty innocuous statement from me.
Not worth complaining about. If you want to use it, you can still use it. You dont HAVE to throw it out. Just like you dont HAVE to add every new thing. Thats what session zero is for.
... except I have never actually seen one of these players use the PBIF they choose or stick to it. Instead, they just independently develop the character as the game progresses.
My players tend to start campaigns with them, sometimes they write their own, sometimes they use random rolls to determine which ones (specifically one player always uses random)
They tend to follow these until events alter their characters. Right now in my Avernus campaign one player has gone mad, he started off as the sane store keeper who had to pay a debt, and now that debt has dragged him all over hell. Meanwhile the amnesiac Space Pirate has regained her memories, and is having fun raiding hell for loot and fun, then we had the haunted bounty hunter who finally rid themselves of their demon, and is quite content with the changes to their life and discovering they are gender fluid.
I think PBIF was okay. I didn't mind that it shoehorned me into a select group of options.
Did you think the tables were the only options and that you couldn't write your own?
This is my favorite part of talking on the internet; people who stretch what you say to absurd conclusions.
Me: I like vanilla ice cream, even though it is rather basic. You: OMG! Did you ever think you could order a flavor other than vanilla??!!??
You don't know me from doodle (which is fine, you're not expected to) but I've been TTRPGing since 1978. I don't need the PFIB to create a character background. However, I didn't mind having a limited group of options on those occasions when I did choose to go along with them. ...
My feeling on this as well. (Started in 1983 in jr HS) I also love any TTRPG that encourages Flaws. These can add so much flavor to a character IMO. I will often build a character then take the suggested pbif and expand on them into a massive story.
I am an old fart and didn't need the Personality, Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws system but as a dm I saw as a great idea for new people to get ideas. But PBIF was hardly ever used in any adventure book, and very few Adventure League modules. So if the publishers and support product don't use it, I can see them dropping for other information.
I think PBIF was okay. I didn't mind that it shoehorned me into a select group of options.
Did you think the tables were the only options and that you couldn't write your own?
This is my favorite part of talking on the internet; people who stretch what you say to absurd conclusions.
Me: I like vanilla ice cream, even though it is rather basic. You: OMG! Did you ever think you could order a flavor other than vanilla??!!??
You don't know me from doodle (which is fine, you're not expected to) but I've been TTRPGing since 1978. I don't need the PFIB to create a character background. However, I didn't mind having a limited group of options on those occasions when I did choose to go along with them. The advantage of having a specific set is it allows the DM familiarity to something they may have seen before. "Lori's character in the last campaign had this flaw. I did this with it then, let me change that for David this time." That doesn't mean a DM can't work ANY background idea into something meaningful, but it does allow temporary DMs (such as those working events) to have some premade concepts when a player shows up with XXX on their sheet.
I don't know why you felt the need to patronize me. That was a pretty innocuous statement from me.
Uhh ... I'm sorry if you took that as patronizing, but it honestly was a sincere question. I was just trying to get a gauge as to whether the write-your-own nature of the system was apparent to everyone.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The rules governing Beliefs and Instincts in The Burning Wheel RPG are tied to its dual advancement system. In D&D these were always of little consequence or impact. Little to no thought had gone into their addition to the game and they were always more just fluff about a character better expressed during play.
Apparently there is a questionnaire about your character's origin in the new PHB, ginni di talks about it here. She's not super impressed (apparently 6 questions), but that's as much as PBIF ever gave you.
... except I have never actually seen one of these players use the PBIF they choose or stick to it. Instead, they just independently develop the character as the game progresses.
My players tend to start campaigns with them, sometimes they write their own, sometimes they use random rolls to determine which ones (specifically one player always uses random)
They tend to follow these until events alter their characters. Right now in my Avernus campaign one player has gone mad, he started off as the sane store keeper who had to pay a debt, and now that debt has dragged him all over hell. Meanwhile the amnesiac Space Pirate has regained her memories, and is having fun raiding hell for loot and fun, then we had the haunted bounty hunter who finally rid themselves of their demon, and is quite content with the changes to their life and discovering they are gender fluid.
Oh wow. So woke and cool.
Cool, sure, Woke, no idea what you mean by that, I tend to be sleepy unless I have a extra large black coffee. Sumatran preferred. If you are making a political dog whistle, don't.
Not worth complaining about. If you want to use it, you can still use it. You dont HAVE to throw it out. Just like you dont HAVE to add every new thing. Thats what session zero is for.
Well obviously I can do that, but what makes me sad is that this is an indication that the devs don't think it was valuable for the character creation process, something with which I disagree heartily. Especially since they are still using Alignment, a system which I think is far far inferior for the purposes of a roleplaying aid or as questions to help someone think of the inner psychology and motivations of a character.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I am one of those weirdos that used it when I built my characters, not for the inspiration piece, but because it laid the groundwork for the rest of the backstory. It was the outline I used when I decided to turn these characters into actual characters in a story (that I probably won't use in games now, hahaha).
I also think it could be a good way for players who normally play the game to "win" (you know they exist, the ones that always make the best decision possible regardless as to whether it's something their character as they've played them up to that point would actually do), into players that play the game for the storytelling aspect (those that stick to their character's guns regardless of impact to the party).
I also want to be clear here: I do not mean to make a judgement call on either side of this spectrum. I'm simply saying that those of the former camp may not know how to play the game like the latter camp does, and PBIF creates easy anchor points that those players who want to shift more to the other side can use. That said, that's probably pretty niche, and I guess it again comes down to "was it worth the ink needed to print it?"
I know you are not making judgments here, but I think persuading one side or the other through the PBIF was probably in the single digit percent. People play the game for different reasons and those who used the PBIF were probably going to do it if it was in the 2014 PHB or not. And those who didn’t still wouldn’t in the 2024 PHB.
Sure there are probably some in the middle but apparently it wasn’t enough to make space in the new book. I like coming up with interesting backstories or quirks that may or may not incorporate elements of the PBIF, but other than my first character I have never used the PBIF. And didn’t really use it on that first character either.
I think PBIF was okay. I didn't mind that it shoehorned me into a select group of options. This allowed the DM to have a narrower scope in how to add elements of a character to a game. "Okay, you have a secret, you don't play well with others, everyone else is wrong, and you like tuna sandwiches. Got it ..." We NEVER used it with Inspiration however, in fact we never use inspiration at all. Because of that I was shocked that the designers felt making the Human an "inspiration battery" for the party was the way to go.
I would consider the new version as what you will find on page 38, on how to incorporate your ability scores to your character appearance and personality. I got it, not as broad as PBIF, but it too can be a starting point for finding your character's "voice".
Did you think the tables were the only options and that you couldn't write your own?
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
This is my favorite part of talking on the internet; people who stretch what you say to absurd conclusions.
Me: I like vanilla ice cream, even though it is rather basic.
You: OMG! Did you ever think you could order a flavor other than vanilla??!!??
You don't know me from doodle (which is fine, you're not expected to) but I've been TTRPGing since 1978. I don't need the PFIB to create a character background. However, I didn't mind having a limited group of options on those occasions when I did choose to go along with them. The advantage of having a specific set is it allows the DM familiarity to something they may have seen before. "Lori's character in the last campaign had this flaw. I did this with it then, let me change that for David this time." That doesn't mean a DM can't work ANY background idea into something meaningful, but it does allow temporary DMs (such as those working events) to have some premade concepts when a player shows up with XXX on their sheet.
I don't know why you felt the need to patronize me. That was a pretty innocuous statement from me.
Not worth complaining about. If you want to use it, you can still use it. You dont HAVE to throw it out. Just like you dont HAVE to add every new thing. Thats what session zero is for.
My players tend to start campaigns with them, sometimes they write their own, sometimes they use random rolls to determine which ones (specifically one player always uses random)
They tend to follow these until events alter their characters. Right now in my Avernus campaign one player has gone mad, he started off as the sane store keeper who had to pay a debt, and now that debt has dragged him all over hell. Meanwhile the amnesiac Space Pirate has regained her memories, and is having fun raiding hell for loot and fun, then we had the haunted bounty hunter who finally rid themselves of their demon, and is quite content with the changes to their life and discovering they are gender fluid.
My feeling on this as well. (Started in 1983 in jr HS) I also love any TTRPG that encourages Flaws. These can add so much flavor to a character IMO. I will often build a character then take the suggested pbif and expand on them into a massive story.
See: https://www.scribblehub.com/series/210884/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-gnome-the-bhuem-kabhuem-edition/ <- this story was created as a response to my random rolls. (The setting allowed for the semi-techno nature of the Rock Gnomes.)
I am an old fart and didn't need the Personality, Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws system but as a dm I saw as a great idea for new people to get ideas. But PBIF was hardly ever used in any adventure book, and very few Adventure League modules. So if the publishers and support product don't use it, I can see them dropping for other information.
And thanks for explainning PBIF in your post.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Uhh ... I'm sorry if you took that as patronizing, but it honestly was a sincere question. I was just trying to get a gauge as to whether the write-your-own nature of the system was apparent to everyone.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The rules governing Beliefs and Instincts in The Burning Wheel RPG are tied to its dual advancement system. In D&D these were always of little consequence or impact. Little to no thought had gone into their addition to the game and they were always more just fluff about a character better expressed during play.
Apparently there is a questionnaire about your character's origin in the new PHB, ginni di talks about it here. She's not super impressed (apparently 6 questions), but that's as much as PBIF ever gave you.
Cool, sure, Woke, no idea what you mean by that, I tend to be sleepy unless I have a extra large black coffee. Sumatran preferred. If you are making a political dog whistle, don't.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I know you are not making judgments here, but I think persuading one side or the other through the PBIF was probably in the single digit percent. People play the game for different reasons and those who used the PBIF were probably going to do it if it was in the 2014 PHB or not. And those who didn’t still wouldn’t in the 2024 PHB.
Sure there are probably some in the middle but apparently it wasn’t enough to make space in the new book. I like coming up with interesting backstories or quirks that may or may not incorporate elements of the PBIF, but other than my first character I have never used the PBIF. And didn’t really use it on that first character either.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?