Hunh…. I wonder why they reversed course on the customized backgrounds then? I thought for sure that was green lit as it would save them a ton of hassle having to keep cranking out more backgrounds every release.
I don't know. The only things I can think of are that either the freedom aspect garnered too many complaints or they realised that since they don't really need to be playtested and can be put together pretty easily and quickly (especially without PBIF), then they would be losing cheap page filler. Or both.
I've never really been a fan of backgrounds (it's always the stage I just pick based on appropriate bonuses because my character is already well formed by that stage, and I'm not going to limit my character based on a word on a page), and the lack of custom backgrounds is definitely a step back from me. I'm just hoping they don't do something daft and decide that they're going to lock the ability to swap ASIs behind buying a specific book again.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think the choice was the correct one. Backgrounds were the weird outlier. Classes and Races/Species are pretty defined what they give you. While you have options inside them, you don't use custom species and custom classes. So why custom backgrounds? They were one part of the character that had no rails at all. Now, they match with classes and species. You have some room of choice (asi), but everything else is fixed. Many species are completely fixed with no choices at all in them (orcs, halfling, dwarf), and classes have a lot of fixed things. Rages, Bardic Inspirations, Extra Attack and much more. Having backgrounds basically be "pick whatever you want, no rails" was the weirdest thing that didn't fit with anything else your character has to choose.
Hunh…. I wonder why they reversed course on the customized backgrounds then? I thought for sure that was green lit as it would save them a ton of hassle having to keep cranking out more backgrounds every release.
The thing is, I don't know if "hassle" is the right word, because now backgrounds are more monetizable than ever; that will make any effort involved in their creation pay for itself. There will definitely be some tables out there that only want players using printed backgrounds rather than allowing customized or deprecated ones, and we still don't know how AL is going to handle backgrounds either. All WotC need to do now are print a few of the combinations that don't currently exist, like a Con/Cha/X + Magic Initiate Wizard background, or Str/Con/X/Tavern Brawler etc., and at least a few players that might not have otherwise been interested in that book will pick it up.
From there, they'll make new Origin Feats (including setting-specific ones) and get to repeat the whole cycle of needing new backgrounds with different ability score combinations to put them in.
I do not like the idea of getting anything from your background. At least nothing of real significance like a feat'
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a child?(1-10)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a teen?(11-15)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a young adult?(16-20)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were an adult?(21 to 25)
At what age do you start adventuring?
So many players never think about the age their character starts adventuring at.
I believe something like an extra skill of feat should be earned while adventuring not just handed to you because you chose a specific background or class or race.
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a child?(1-10)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a teen?(11-15)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a young adult?(16-20)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were an adult?(21 to 25)
You are kidding, right? If a 6 year old gets into formal education versus one being kept at a farm, there is a HUGE difference in the peoples abilities. The city school boy will never pick anything heavier then their books unless they go oout of their way to persue some sport, and even then it is a very different kind of strength, meanwhile the farm boy will not learn advanced mathematics or political sciences and history. This time is not for no reason called "formative years". Your background is as important as your species to who you are and what you can do.
I do not like the idea of getting anything from your background. At least nothing of real significance like a feat'
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a child?(1-10)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a teen?(11-15)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a young adult?(16-20)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were an adult?(21 to 25)
At what age do you start adventuring?
So many players never think about the age their character starts adventuring at.
I believe something like an extra skill of feat should be earned while adventuring not just handed to you because you chose a specific background or class or race.
You really, really don’t want to know. So much I actually repressed memories for 30 years afterwords.
You also do not want to know, and on top of that I almost died once.
You might want to know, but I’m not going to say because I have a constitutional right not to incriminate myself. Also, I almost died again.
Again, not gonna incriminate myself, a serious lifelong injury, and I almost died two more times (but those were not the last of my near-death experiences).
I don’t know about you, but my adventure started the moment I was born, and hasn’t stopped and won’t until they pour dirt over me.
I do not like the idea of getting anything from your background. At least nothing of real significance like a feat'
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a child?(1-10)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a teen?(11-15)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a young adult?(16-20)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were an adult?(21 to 25)
At what age do you start adventuring?
So many players never think about the age their character starts adventuring at.
I believe something like an extra skill of feat should be earned while adventuring not just handed to you because you chose a specific background or class or race.
Serious? I think we should have a few feats based on how we grow up. I grew up training in martial arts, and Olympic level competitive skiing, I had Dual National Citizenship at birth, and could speak 3 languages until a head injury. I joined the USMC and severed during the Gulf War (operation desert storm) I got hurt and got a medical discharge.
So I proceeded to live in other countries and was ready for adventure at 21.
That's my background, I think I would have had several feats, a class, and various flaws and personality traits. At 50, I added a whole life of things, if I start adventuring now I would have a totally different class and even more feat options, and even more flaws and traits.
Feats are what you know and what you can do. By the time we would start our lives as adventurers our characters would have at least 18 years of life before setting off. You can learn a lot in 18 years of life.
I think the choice was the correct one. Backgrounds were the weird outlier. Classes and Races/Species are pretty defined what they give you. While you have options inside them, you don't use custom species and custom classes. So why custom backgrounds? They were one part of the character that had no rails at all. Now, they match with classes and species. You have some room of choice (asi), but everything else is fixed. Many species are completely fixed with no choices at all in them (orcs, halfling, dwarf), and classes have a lot of fixed things. Rages, Bardic Inspirations, Extra Attack and much more. Having backgrounds basically be "pick whatever you want, no rails" was the weirdest thing that didn't fit with anything else your character has to choose.
I get your point but now instead of, pre-Tasha’s, pick your race that gives you the best ASI for your class to pick your background that gives you the best ASI limited choice plus Origin feat you wanted.
So if you were a farmers son who was intelligent and a local hedge mage taught you a few things because they saw your potential, well no Magic Initiate (Wizard) for you. Sorry.
I think the choice was the correct one. Backgrounds were the weird outlier. Classes and Races/Species are pretty defined what they give you. While you have options inside them, you don't use custom species and custom classes. So why custom backgrounds? They were one part of the character that had no rails at all. Now, they match with classes and species. You have some room of choice (asi), but everything else is fixed. Many species are completely fixed with no choices at all in them (orcs, halfling, dwarf), and classes have a lot of fixed things. Rages, Bardic Inspirations, Extra Attack and much more. Having backgrounds basically be "pick whatever you want, no rails" was the weirdest thing that didn't fit with anything else your character has to choose.
I get your point but now instead of, pre-Tasha’s, pick your race that gives you the best ASI for your class to pick your background that gives you the best ASI limited choice plus Origin feat you wanted.
So if you were a farmers son who was intelligent and a local hedge mage taught you a few things because they saw your potential, well no Magic Initiate (Wizard) for you. Sorry.
I ask you in that case: What was more formative for that character? Being a farmer, or being thought by a hedge mage? If it is farmer, you take the farmer background, if it was the hedge mage, you take the sage background. IF you want the "farmer backSTORY", but as a character it is more close to a sage, then that's what you take.
I said it once some where: Background is NOT backSTORY. These are different things. Backgrounds are the archetype you play into. The archetype of the farmer is the hard working, pig wrangling farmboy. You want to be a person from a farm, but not the archetype applied by it. For me that character sounds like someone born on a farm, but the archetype that the Sage plays into. So you choose sage, but say you were raised on a farm.
Now, there should be more backgrounds, as 16 are a bit too few, at least 30 would be ideal in my mind.
So you all think that everything you do during your life should grant you a special feat and ability?
Well, you don't lose your class abilities if you multiclass into a new class. So why should background be different? backgrounds are basically your class before you get a class.
So you all think that everything you do during your life should grant you a special feat and ability?
Sure, it’d be nice to get something lasting from some past jobs besides premature grey hairs.
My previous detractors were not talking about something they made a living A job from but from skills they learned.
I gained a bunch of skills before I was 18. lets skip modern western schooling. I learned how to saddle and ride a horse. Shoot shot guns, pistols and rifles. I learned how to shoot at moderate ranges a 75# long bow. I learned how to ride motorcycles and rebuild them. Sold it for a profit. I roofed two houses by myself. Got well paid. For a summer I learned how to be a life guard. Made "fire works" with my friends. That was fun. Joined the military at 18 and learned quite a bit doing that. Had a Semi truck license before I was 19. I was an aircraft refueler in the Airforce.
Things that happened to me. Lived through two tornadoes, one trapped outside in it. Lived through two airplane crashes. Electrocuted myself twice. I might have died for the first one. I woke up during CPR.
Before I joined the military I would not have counted any of those as special. They were just something we did for fun. Things that happened to me didn't give me any skills.
So you all think that everything you do during your life should grant you a special feat and ability?
Yes. I definitely like my character's pre-adventure life to be represented mechanically on the character sheet, as a way of differentiating them from other characters in a meaningful way.
To bring it back to the original topic, that meaning that is customizable and individual for the character is why I am saddened that the developers thought PBIF wasn't worth the space to put into the new book. Now that customization and individuality comes down to an adjective you put in front of your Alignment.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
So you all think that everything you do during your life should grant you a special feat and ability?
Yes. I definitely like my character's pre-adventure life to be represented mechanically on the character sheet, as a way of differentiating them from other characters in a meaningful way.
To bring it back to the original topic, that meaning that is customizable and individual for the character is why I am saddened that the developers thought PBIF wasn't worth the space to put into the new book. Now that customization and individuality comes down to an adjective you put in front of your Alignment.
No, now that customization and individuality comes down to roleplay. I know, a shocking new paradigm for a roleplaying game, but it just might catch on. PBIF were pretty much never used in any of the 5e campaigns I played in and mostly exist as codified lines to try and give the DM a basis for awarding inspiration, which still happened without the use of pre-generated tables in those campaigns I mentioned.
So you all think that everything you do during your life should grant you a special feat and ability?
Sure, it’d be nice to get something lasting from some past jobs besides premature grey hairs.
My previous detractors were not talking about something they made a living A job from but from skills they learned.
I gained a bunch of skills before I was 18. lets skip modern western schooling. I learned how to saddle and ride a horse. Shoot shot guns, pistols and rifles. I learned how to shoot at moderate ranges a 75# long bow. I learned how to ride motorcycles and rebuild them. Sold it for a profit. I roofed two houses by myself. Got well paid. For a summer I learned how to be a life guard. Made "fire works" with my friends. That was fun. Joined the military at 18 and learned quite a bit doing that. Had a Semi truck license before I was 19. I was an aircraft refueler in the Airforce.
Things that happened to me. Lived through two tornadoes, one trapped outside in it. Lived through two airplane crashes. Electrocuted myself twice. I might have died for the first one. I woke up during CPR.
Before I joined the military I would not have counted any of those as special. They were just something we did for fun. Things that happened to me didn't give me any skills.
Sounds like a couple tool proficiencies. Probably you developed some abilities more than others. And maybe got the lucky feat? Congratulations, you have a background.
My two coppers: I have played with a bunch of different people over the years; never once have I seen anyone use PBIF. The players who are going to write their own backstory and think about those kinds of things are the players who are capable of making their own personality traits and flaws - they see this system as inferior to their own creation and as a possible problem if there is someone playing PBIF police at the table. For players who do not make their backstories, I always have thought PBIF would be a great way for them to think about character development... except I have never actually seen one of these players use the PBIF they choose or stick to it. Instead, they just independently develop the character as the game progresses.
I expect the reason PBIF is getting cut is that Wizards has reason to believe it was not popular. In fact, I would not be surprised if they had hard data on this - we know that Wizards monitors D&D Beyond as a source of data, as they track things such as the most popular species and classes. I would not be surprised if they had data showing lots of people select backgrounds... but a significant, possibly majority, of players never hit the "add" button next to PBIF options. That would be hard data evidencing the system's unpopularity and would be a pretty good reason to abandon it as the game moves forward. No sense burning precious time and space in the PHB and in future backgrounds if people do not really like the system.
Was my table just the odd one out, then? We made use of PBIF pretty consistently. It was used for Inspiration, yes, but also just used to mark psychology and rewritten for important changes in such.
No, now that customization and individuality comes down to roleplay. I know, a shocking new paradigm for a roleplaying game, but it just might catch on. PBIF were pretty much never used in any of the 5e campaigns I played in and mostly exist as codified lines to try and give the DM a basis for awarding inspiration, which still happened without the use of pre-generated tables in those campaigns I mentioned.
Yes, I get what you mean, but I still think it was nice to have space and a specific directive from the game itself to ask and think about those kinds of questions about a character's inner motivations and feelings. I'm an avid roleplayer and I think about those kinds of things for my character whether or not it is part of the system, but whenever a game system includes those, I think it is helpful for people who may not have thought of that before and it serves as a reminder and encouragement to do that kind of character development.
In short yes, I know how to roleplay and improvise, but I specifically like when roleplaying aspects are codified in a manner that allows you to write it your own.
I am one of those weirdos that used it when I built my characters, not for the inspiration piece, but because it laid the groundwork for the rest of the backstory. It was the outline I used when I decided to turn these characters into actual characters in a story (that I probably won't use in games now, hahaha).
I also think it could be a good way for players who normally play the game to "win" (you know they exist, the ones that always make the best decision possible regardless as to whether it's something their character as they've played them up to that point would actually do), into players that play the game for the storytelling aspect (those that stick to their character's guns regardless of impact to the party).
I also want to be clear here: I do not mean to make a judgement call on either side of this spectrum. I'm simply saying that those of the former camp may not know how to play the game like the latter camp does, and PBIF creates easy anchor points that those players who want to shift more to the other side can use. That said, that's probably pretty niche, and I guess it again comes down to "was it worth the ink needed to print it?"
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Hunh…. I wonder why they reversed course on the customized backgrounds then? I thought for sure that was green lit as it would save them a ton of hassle having to keep cranking out more backgrounds every release.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I don't know. The only things I can think of are that either the freedom aspect garnered too many complaints or they realised that since they don't really need to be playtested and can be put together pretty easily and quickly (especially without PBIF), then they would be losing cheap page filler. Or both.
I've never really been a fan of backgrounds (it's always the stage I just pick based on appropriate bonuses because my character is already well formed by that stage, and I'm not going to limit my character based on a word on a page), and the lack of custom backgrounds is definitely a step back from me. I'm just hoping they don't do something daft and decide that they're going to lock the ability to swap ASIs behind buying a specific book again.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I think the choice was the correct one. Backgrounds were the weird outlier. Classes and Races/Species are pretty defined what they give you. While you have options inside them, you don't use custom species and custom classes. So why custom backgrounds? They were one part of the character that had no rails at all. Now, they match with classes and species. You have some room of choice (asi), but everything else is fixed. Many species are completely fixed with no choices at all in them (orcs, halfling, dwarf), and classes have a lot of fixed things. Rages, Bardic Inspirations, Extra Attack and much more. Having backgrounds basically be "pick whatever you want, no rails" was the weirdest thing that didn't fit with anything else your character has to choose.
The thing is, I don't know if "hassle" is the right word, because now backgrounds are more monetizable than ever; that will make any effort involved in their creation pay for itself. There will definitely be some tables out there that only want players using printed backgrounds rather than allowing customized or deprecated ones, and we still don't know how AL is going to handle backgrounds either. All WotC need to do now are print a few of the combinations that don't currently exist, like a Con/Cha/X + Magic Initiate Wizard background, or Str/Con/X/Tavern Brawler etc., and at least a few players that might not have otherwise been interested in that book will pick it up.
From there, they'll make new Origin Feats (including setting-specific ones) and get to repeat the whole cycle of needing new backgrounds with different ability score combinations to put them in.
I do not like the idea of getting anything from your background. At least nothing of real significance like a feat'
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a child?(1-10)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a teen?(11-15)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were a young adult?(16-20)
What of significance did you do or happened to you while you were an adult?(21 to 25)
At what age do you start adventuring?
So many players never think about the age their character starts adventuring at.
I believe something like an extra skill of feat should be earned while adventuring not just handed to you because you chose a specific background or class or race.
You are kidding, right? If a 6 year old gets into formal education versus one being kept at a farm, there is a HUGE difference in the peoples abilities. The city school boy will never pick anything heavier then their books unless they go oout of their way to persue some sport, and even then it is a very different kind of strength, meanwhile the farm boy will not learn advanced mathematics or political sciences and history. This time is not for no reason called "formative years". Your background is as important as your species to who you are and what you can do.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Serious? I think we should have a few feats based on how we grow up. I grew up training in martial arts, and Olympic level competitive skiing, I had Dual National Citizenship at birth, and could speak 3 languages until a head injury. I joined the USMC and severed during the Gulf War (operation desert storm) I got hurt and got a medical discharge.
So I proceeded to live in other countries and was ready for adventure at 21.
That's my background, I think I would have had several feats, a class, and various flaws and personality traits. At 50, I added a whole life of things, if I start adventuring now I would have a totally different class and even more feat options, and even more flaws and traits.
Feats are what you know and what you can do. By the time we would start our lives as adventurers our characters would have at least 18 years of life before setting off. You can learn a lot in 18 years of life.
I get your point but now instead of, pre-Tasha’s, pick your race that gives you the best ASI for your class to pick your background that gives you the best ASI limited choice plus Origin feat you wanted.
So if you were a farmers son who was intelligent and a local hedge mage taught you a few things because they saw your potential, well no Magic Initiate (Wizard) for you. Sorry.
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I ask you in that case: What was more formative for that character? Being a farmer, or being thought by a hedge mage? If it is farmer, you take the farmer background, if it was the hedge mage, you take the sage background. IF you want the "farmer backSTORY", but as a character it is more close to a sage, then that's what you take.
I said it once some where: Background is NOT backSTORY. These are different things. Backgrounds are the archetype you play into. The archetype of the farmer is the hard working, pig wrangling farmboy. You want to be a person from a farm, but not the archetype applied by it. For me that character sounds like someone born on a farm, but the archetype that the Sage plays into. So you choose sage, but say you were raised on a farm.
Now, there should be more backgrounds, as 16 are a bit too few, at least 30 would be ideal in my mind.
So you all think that everything you do during your life should grant you a special feat and ability?
Sure, it’d be nice to get something lasting from some past jobs besides premature grey hairs.
Well, you don't lose your class abilities if you multiclass into a new class. So why should background be different? backgrounds are basically your class before you get a class.
My previous detractors were not talking about something they made a living A job from but from skills they learned.
I gained a bunch of skills before I was 18.
lets skip modern western schooling.
I learned how to saddle and ride a horse.
Shoot shot guns, pistols and rifles.
I learned how to shoot at moderate ranges a 75# long bow.
I learned how to ride motorcycles and rebuild them. Sold it for a profit.
I roofed two houses by myself. Got well paid.
For a summer I learned how to be a life guard.
Made "fire works" with my friends. That was fun.
Joined the military at 18 and learned quite a bit doing that. Had a Semi truck license before I was 19. I was an aircraft refueler in the Airforce.
Things that happened to me.
Lived through two tornadoes, one trapped outside in it.
Lived through two airplane crashes.
Electrocuted myself twice. I might have died for the first one. I woke up during CPR.
Before I joined the military I would not have counted any of those as special. They were just something we did for fun.
Things that happened to me didn't give me any skills.
Yes. I definitely like my character's pre-adventure life to be represented mechanically on the character sheet, as a way of differentiating them from other characters in a meaningful way.
To bring it back to the original topic, that meaning that is customizable and individual for the character is why I am saddened that the developers thought PBIF wasn't worth the space to put into the new book. Now that customization and individuality comes down to an adjective you put in front of your Alignment.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
No, now that customization and individuality comes down to roleplay. I know, a shocking new paradigm for a roleplaying game, but it just might catch on. PBIF were pretty much never used in any of the 5e campaigns I played in and mostly exist as codified lines to try and give the DM a basis for awarding inspiration, which still happened without the use of pre-generated tables in those campaigns I mentioned.
Sounds like a couple tool proficiencies. Probably you developed some abilities more than others. And maybe got the lucky feat? Congratulations, you have a background.
My two coppers: I have played with a bunch of different people over the years; never once have I seen anyone use PBIF. The players who are going to write their own backstory and think about those kinds of things are the players who are capable of making their own personality traits and flaws - they see this system as inferior to their own creation and as a possible problem if there is someone playing PBIF police at the table. For players who do not make their backstories, I always have thought PBIF would be a great way for them to think about character development... except I have never actually seen one of these players use the PBIF they choose or stick to it. Instead, they just independently develop the character as the game progresses.
I expect the reason PBIF is getting cut is that Wizards has reason to believe it was not popular. In fact, I would not be surprised if they had hard data on this - we know that Wizards monitors D&D Beyond as a source of data, as they track things such as the most popular species and classes. I would not be surprised if they had data showing lots of people select backgrounds... but a significant, possibly majority, of players never hit the "add" button next to PBIF options. That would be hard data evidencing the system's unpopularity and would be a pretty good reason to abandon it as the game moves forward. No sense burning precious time and space in the PHB and in future backgrounds if people do not really like the system.
Was my table just the odd one out, then? We made use of PBIF pretty consistently. It was used for Inspiration, yes, but also just used to mark psychology and rewritten for important changes in such.
Yes, I get what you mean, but I still think it was nice to have space and a specific directive from the game itself to ask and think about those kinds of questions about a character's inner motivations and feelings. I'm an avid roleplayer and I think about those kinds of things for my character whether or not it is part of the system, but whenever a game system includes those, I think it is helpful for people who may not have thought of that before and it serves as a reminder and encouragement to do that kind of character development.
In short yes, I know how to roleplay and improvise, but I specifically like when roleplaying aspects are codified in a manner that allows you to write it your own.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I am one of those weirdos that used it when I built my characters, not for the inspiration piece, but because it laid the groundwork for the rest of the backstory. It was the outline I used when I decided to turn these characters into actual characters in a story (that I probably won't use in games now, hahaha).
I also think it could be a good way for players who normally play the game to "win" (you know they exist, the ones that always make the best decision possible regardless as to whether it's something their character as they've played them up to that point would actually do), into players that play the game for the storytelling aspect (those that stick to their character's guns regardless of impact to the party).
I also want to be clear here: I do not mean to make a judgement call on either side of this spectrum. I'm simply saying that those of the former camp may not know how to play the game like the latter camp does, and PBIF creates easy anchor points that those players who want to shift more to the other side can use. That said, that's probably pretty niche, and I guess it again comes down to "was it worth the ink needed to print it?"