I've only ever heard people complain about that section of the phb, saying it forced people into only certain ways of roleplaying.
Now, I'm not one of those people because I know you don't *have* to use the ones from the backgrounds-- or any book at all for that matter-- but I've known enough of those people not to be surprised that it's not in the book.
Huh.
I may not use them the most, but they certainly do help with creating ideas. It's nice to get ideas that can flow into a character.
Plus the very first time I played DnD I was taking over a character someone else had made. And seeing those on the character sheet helped me, who was new to D&D as a whole, get a little roleplay going while learning things about the system.
Overall it does seem like an omission that feels in line with the direction WotC has taken along with things like DIY lore. But I do find it a useful springboard.
…the 2024 PHB no longer uses the Personality, Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws system….
Yeah, disappointing but not surprising. They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds. The standard SOP moving forward willis no longer be for a player to choose a prewritten background for their character but to instead design one for each PC using the included examples as a guide. The stated reasoning was that it encourages and promotes player agency, creativity, narrative gameplay, and makes it less about selecting yet another set of mechanical benefits and then pigeonholing yourself into playing into the flavor associated with whichever background is chosen. Following that line of reasoning then the TIBF system could no longer logically exist as it did associated with backgrounds that no longer exist.
While I don’t doubt that all of that is true, I do doubt that it’s the main motivation for the change. Bottom line is that having to generate the multitude of backgrounds necessary to give players any real breadth of viable options is a pain in the ass and it’s expensive, both for an initial release and for subsequent releases as well. This system will cut waayyy down on word count and therefore page count, therefore publishing costs, but will also save them a small fortune not having to pay writers and designers and artists to to satisfy the ongoing demand for more new backgrounds further reducing costs. It’s like Ikea furniture backgrounds. To put it bluntly, this is one of the ways a corporation can impose a concept like shrinkflation to a product like D&D.
PBIF was tied in to the Inspiration system, so once they redesigned Inspiration it no longer served any direct game purpose.
It doesn’t really need to serve a direct game purpose though. I think the entire Inspiration system is garbage, and I dislike the new version even more and genuinely chafe at them practically enforcing its use on me as both a DM and a player. But I still used the TIBF system extensively for both my PCs as a player and for NPCs as a DM. I rather enjoyed the practice of either selecting or even sometimes rolling on those tables and discovering the character as it unfolded for me during creation. I’m personally not fond of having a specific idea for a character and then attempting to shoehorn it into D&D’s system, or the system into my idea either for that matter. The TIBF system not only felt pretty organic to me in as much as anything can when constrained by boundaries, but it has also enabled/encouraged me to play characters I never would have otherwise on my own by presenting me prompts that helped shape my characters personalities in unscripted and unexpected ways. I genuinely felt more than a little sad when they announced the shift way back in DD1UA Whicheveritwas. I felt like I ought to send a mass card or floral wreath to someone or something. 🤷♂️
They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds.
I think you may be slightly behind in the news revealed about the actual books from people who have their hands on it. There are 16 Backgrounds in PHB '24 and no system to create your own. Now, there is a way to end run around this by "adapting" an "old" Background, but as to what's explicitly stated, creating your own Background whole cloth is not a thing in PHB '24.
They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds.
I think you may be slightly behind in the news revealed about the actual books from people who have their hands on it. There are 16 Backgrounds in PHB '24 and no system to create your own. Now, there is a way to end run around this by "adapting" an "old" Background, but as to what's explicitly stated, creating your own Background whole cloth is not a thing in PHB '24.
I would be surprised if rules on customizing backgrounds aren’t in the DMG. Not that customizing backgrounds is difficult.
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…the 2024 PHB no longer uses the Personality, Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws system….
Yeah, disappointing but not surprising. They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds. The standard SOP moving forward willis no longer be for a player to choose a prewritten background for their character but to instead design one for each PC using the included examples as a guide. The stated reasoning was that it encourages and promotes player agency, creativity, narrative gameplay, and makes it less about selecting yet another set of mechanical benefits and then pigeonholing yourself into playing into the flavor associated with whichever background is chosen. Following that line of reasoning then the TIBF system could no longer logically exist as it did associated with backgrounds that no longer exist.
While I don’t doubt that all of that is true, I do doubt that it’s the main motivation for the change. Bottom line is that having to generate the multitude of backgrounds necessary to give players any real breadth of viable options is a pain in the ass and it’s expensive, both for an initial release and for subsequent releases as well. This system will cut waayyy down on word count and therefore page count, therefore publishing costs, but will also save them a small fortune not having to pay writers and designers and artists to to satisfy the ongoing demand for more new backgrounds further reducing costs. It’s like Ikea furniture backgrounds. To put it bluntly, this is one of the ways a corporation can impose a concept like shrinkflation to a product like D&D.
Given that everything I’ve heard is that there’s more pictures and a higher page count in the new PHB, I’d put this down to resource allocation, not corporate chicanery.
They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds.
I think you may be slightly behind in the news revealed about the actual books from people who have their hands on it. There are 16 Backgrounds in PHB '24 and no system to create your own. Now, there is a way to end run around this by "adapting" an "old" Background, but as to what's explicitly stated, creating your own Background whole cloth is not a thing in PHB '24.
I would be surprised if rules on customizing backgrounds aren’t in the DMG. Not that customizing backgrounds is difficult.
Seems counterintuitive to out the Background mechanics in the Dungeon Master's Guide rather than the Player's Handbook, when it's a mechanic that's almost purely for the player.
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On the Discord server, the mods with access to early copies of the books have been kind enough to answer direct questions and I found out that the 2024 PHB no longer uses the Personality, Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws system. Of all the things this seems like a minor one, but I've found myself pretty saddened about this because I feel like the system doesn't care to encourage thinking very deeply about the inner life or motivations of one's character. I don't feel like something so player facing would be moved into the DMG, either, but I suppose there's an outside possibility that's where we will find it. What do you all think about this?
Although I would have preferred it be included I feel that the people who would have used it to think “deeply about the inner life or motivations of one's character.” already are without it and those who didn’t use it still wouldn’t. Maybe new players would be encouraged to do so, but I think there are resources out there to learn as well. If they got into the game from watching Critical Role or other streams they will work it out.
On the Discord server, the mods with access to early copies of the books have been kind enough to answer direct questions and I found out that the 2024 PHB no longer uses the Personality, Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws system. Of all the things this seems like a minor one, but I've found myself pretty saddened about this because I feel like the system doesn't care to encourage thinking very deeply about the inner life or motivations of one's character. I don't feel like something so player facing would be moved into the DMG, either, but I suppose there's an outside possibility that's where we will find it. What do you all think about this?
Although I would have preferred it be included I feel that the people who would have used it to think “deeply about the inner life or motivations of one's character.” already are without it and those who didn’t use it still wouldn’t. Maybe new players would be encouraged to do so, but I think there are resources out there to learn as well. If they got into the game from watching Critical Role or other streams they will work it out.
I mean I can obviously do it myself, but I still think its absence is a signal about the explicit thought processes the devs are asking players to go through while creating characters. Or not go through, rather. They still have Alignment in chargen, though I haven't gotten a look at the exact wording yet, and this is pretty disappointing to me.
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…the 2024 PHB no longer uses the Personality, Bonds, Ideals, and Flaws system….
Yeah, disappointing but not surprising. They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds. The standard SOP moving forward willis no longer be for a player to choose a prewritten background for their character but to instead design one for each PC using the included examples as a guide. The stated reasoning was that it encourages and promotes player agency, creativity, narrative gameplay, and makes it less about selecting yet another set of mechanical benefits and then pigeonholing yourself into playing into the flavor associated with whichever background is chosen. Following that line of reasoning then the TIBF system could no longer logically exist as it did associated with backgrounds that no longer exist.
While I don’t doubt that all of that is true, I do doubt that it’s the main motivation for the change. Bottom line is that having to generate the multitude of backgrounds necessary to give players any real breadth of viable options is a pain in the ass and it’s expensive, both for an initial release and for subsequent releases as well. This system will cut waayyy down on word count and therefore page count, therefore publishing costs, but will also save them a small fortune not having to pay writers and designers and artists to to satisfy the ongoing demand for more new backgrounds further reducing costs. It’s like Ikea furniture backgrounds. To put it bluntly, this is one of the ways a corporation can impose a concept like shrinkflation to a product like D&D.
Unless I misunderstand what you are saying, the backgrounds in the 2024 PHB are the only option. The UA default of make your own is gone. You don’t get to choose your background feat. It is preselected in the background you choose. They are no longer just “samples” to use as guides. Same for the ASI. They give you three ability scores and you can do three +1’s or +2/+1 in those three, and no other. Which I found odd since they took away ASI from race and put it into background so you didn’t feel like you had to choose a certain race for a given class. Now you just do that with backgrounds. You want to play a fighter, better not pick Acolyte background now.
But if I misunderstood you, sorry running on not much sleep today 😂
They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds.
I think you may be slightly behind in the news revealed about the actual books from people who have their hands on it. There are 16 Backgrounds in PHB '24 and no system to create your own. Now, there is a way to end run around this by "adapting" an "old" Background, but as to what's explicitly stated, creating your own Background whole cloth is not a thing in PHB '24.
I would be surprised if rules on customizing backgrounds aren’t in the DMG. Not that customizing backgrounds is difficult.
Seems counterintuitive to out the Background mechanics in the Dungeon Master's Guide rather than the Player's Handbook, when it's a mechanic that's almost purely for the player.
Backgrounds are a part of the world building. And looking at the 2014 DMG, custom subclasses and races where part of the DMG, not the PHB. Basically, anything that is custom, is run by the DMG not by the PHB.
They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds.
I think you may be slightly behind in the news revealed about the actual books from people who have their hands on it. There are 16 Backgrounds in PHB '24 and no system to create your own. Now, there is a way to end run around this by "adapting" an "old" Background, but as to what's explicitly stated, creating your own Background whole cloth is not a thing in PHB '24.
I would be surprised if rules on customizing backgrounds aren’t in the DMG. Not that customizing backgrounds is difficult.
Seems counterintuitive to out the Background mechanics in the Dungeon Master's Guide rather than the Player's Handbook, when it's a mechanic that's almost purely for the player.
I think the idea then is players can only do it with DM permission. Giving players free rein to homebrew is, 9 times out of 10, going to be a recipe for broken combos. I mean, I don’t know how broken they could be, but over time, as new starting feats are released, it’s bound to be able to happen
Plus, it gives DMs a chance to create custom backgrounds that fits the campaign, instead of players making up something and then trying to shoehorn it into the world.
Granted, it didn’t work perfectly in ‘14, with so many people thinking they can just be an oathbreaker. But I’d guess that’s the idea.
I liked the section whenever I was stuck for ideas, but I didn't like how they were assigned to specific backgrounds, especially the ones that ended up redundant across multiple. And at the end of the day, I'd much rather the space they took up be assigned to beautiful art.
I liked the section whenever I was stuck for ideas, but I didn't like how they were assigned to specific backgrounds, especially the ones that ended up redundant across multiple. And at the end of the day, I'd much rather the space they took up be assigned to beautiful art.
Oh the tables of preset PBIF were definitely wasted space, but the concept themselves and a short explanation for each would be great. Kinda like ..
Personality - The default emotional “stance” of your character or their standing animation at the character select screen, if you will. This is how your character generally behaves when nothing else is going on. Bonds - The people, places, and things that are important to your character, either good or bad. These are the connection points between your character and the game world, very important for integrating the character and the plot. Ideals - These are your character’s ethics. This is where you state how your character believes people should behave. Flaws - These are your character’s blind spots or things that plague your character in a way that drives the story forward and makes the plot more interesting. Usually they will be a kind of weakness in your mindset, but it can be anything else that consistently obstructs your character’s life.
Without the rules interaction, PBIF become "useful questions to answer when creating a character". Which is certainly a reasonable topic to have in an RPG, though it's almost entirely system-agnostic and mostly not even RPG-specific, but you probably want more than four.
Without the rules interaction, PBIF become "useful questions to answer when creating a character".
Yes, something which I think is better served with that format than, "pick one of Nine Alignments from this chart."
Which is certainly a reasonable topic to have in an RPG, though it's almost entirely system-agnostic and mostly not even RPG-specific, but you probably want more than four.
Well sure, I'm not saying PBIF is the end all and be all of character psychology questionnaires, but I do think it's the best one that D&D has had.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
PBIF was tied in to the Inspiration system, so once they redesigned Inspiration it no longer served any direct game purpose.
...huh. I never knew this. But there it is, in the (2014) Player's Handbook. You learn things every day!
If you play BG3 you will see it work as intended. Honestly as a DM it's the most difficult system to try and track. I use to give out inspirations after fights, or have the party vote on "player of the session" for it, nothing worked well IMO because you can only have one, and the player has to remember to use it. So I don't even bother unless I see someone remember to use it.
...huh. I never knew this. But there it is, in the (2014) Player's Handbook. You learn things every day!
Huh.
I may not use them the most, but they certainly do help with creating ideas. It's nice to get ideas that can flow into a character.
Plus the very first time I played DnD I was taking over a character someone else had made. And seeing those on the character sheet helped me, who was new to D&D as a whole, get a little roleplay going while learning things about the system.
Overall it does seem like an omission that feels in line with the direction WotC has taken along with things like DIY lore. But I do find it a useful springboard.
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Yeah, disappointing but not surprising. They flat out stated that the “backgrounds” in the R5e PHB are only suggested examples provided to players as a tool to enable us to create our own backgrounds. The standard SOP moving forward
willis no longerbefor a player to choose a prewritten background for their character but to instead design one for each PC using the included examples as a guide. The stated reasoning was that it encourages and promotes player agency, creativity, narrative gameplay, and makes it less about selecting yet another set of mechanical benefits and then pigeonholing yourself into playing into the flavor associated with whichever background is chosen. Following that line of reasoning then the TIBF system could no longer logically exist as it did associated with backgrounds that no longer exist.While I don’t doubt that all of that is true, I do doubt that it’s the main motivation for the change. Bottom line is that having to generate the multitude of backgrounds necessary to give players any real breadth of viable options is a pain in the ass and it’s expensive, both for an initial release and for subsequent releases as well. This system will cut waayyy down on word count and therefore page count, therefore publishing costs, but will also save them a small fortune not having to pay writers and designers and artists to to satisfy the ongoing demand for more new backgrounds further reducing costs. It’s like Ikea furniture backgrounds. To put it bluntly, this is one of the ways a corporation can impose a concept like shrinkflation to a product like D&D.
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That's a take, considering this PHB is larger than any other book that released from 2014 to 2024.
It doesn’t really need to serve a direct game purpose though. I think the entire Inspiration system is garbage, and I dislike the new version even more and genuinely chafe at them practically enforcing its use on me as both a DM and a player. But I still used the TIBF system extensively for both my PCs as a player and for NPCs as a DM. I rather enjoyed the practice of either selecting or even sometimes rolling on those tables and discovering the character as it unfolded for me during creation. I’m personally not fond of having a specific idea for a character and then attempting to shoehorn it into D&D’s system, or the system into my idea either for that matter. The TIBF system not only felt pretty organic to me in as much as anything can when constrained by boundaries, but it has also enabled/encouraged me to play characters I never would have otherwise on my own by presenting me prompts that helped shape my characters personalities in unscripted and unexpected ways. I genuinely felt more than a little sad when they announced the shift way back in DD1UA Whicheveritwas. I felt like I ought to send a mass card or floral wreath to someone or something. 🤷♂️
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Well, since it is so much larger, doesn’t it track that they would look to cut page count wherever they could afford to?
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I think you may be slightly behind in the news revealed about the actual books from people who have their hands on it. There are 16 Backgrounds in PHB '24 and no system to create your own. Now, there is a way to end run around this by "adapting" an "old" Background, but as to what's explicitly stated, creating your own Background whole cloth is not a thing in PHB '24.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I would be surprised if rules on customizing backgrounds aren’t in the DMG. Not that customizing backgrounds is difficult.
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Given that everything I’ve heard is that there’s more pictures and a higher page count in the new PHB, I’d put this down to resource allocation, not corporate chicanery.
Seems counterintuitive to out the Background mechanics in the Dungeon Master's Guide rather than the Player's Handbook, when it's a mechanic that's almost purely for the player.
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Although I would have preferred it be included I feel that the people who would have used it to think “deeply about the inner life or motivations of one's character.” already are without it and those who didn’t use it still wouldn’t. Maybe new players would be encouraged to do so, but I think there are resources out there to learn as well. If they got into the game from watching Critical Role or other streams they will work it out.
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I mean I can obviously do it myself, but I still think its absence is a signal about the explicit thought processes the devs are asking players to go through while creating characters. Or not go through, rather. They still have Alignment in chargen, though I haven't gotten a look at the exact wording yet, and this is pretty disappointing to me.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Unless I misunderstand what you are saying, the backgrounds in the 2024 PHB are the only option. The UA default of make your own is gone. You don’t get to choose your background feat. It is preselected in the background you choose. They are no longer just “samples” to use as guides. Same for the ASI. They give you three ability scores and you can do three +1’s or +2/+1 in those three, and no other. Which I found odd since they took away ASI from race and put it into background so you didn’t feel like you had to choose a certain race for a given class. Now you just do that with backgrounds. You want to play a fighter, better not pick Acolyte background now.
But if I misunderstood you, sorry running on not much sleep today 😂
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Backgrounds are a part of the world building. And looking at the 2014 DMG, custom subclasses and races where part of the DMG, not the PHB. Basically, anything that is custom, is run by the DMG not by the PHB.
I think the idea then is players can only do it with DM permission. Giving players free rein to homebrew is, 9 times out of 10, going to be a recipe for broken combos. I mean, I don’t know how broken they could be, but over time, as new starting feats are released, it’s bound to be able to happen
Plus, it gives DMs a chance to create custom backgrounds that fits the campaign, instead of players making up something and then trying to shoehorn it into the world.
Granted, it didn’t work perfectly in ‘14, with so many people thinking they can just be an oathbreaker. But I’d guess that’s the idea.
I liked the section whenever I was stuck for ideas, but I didn't like how they were assigned to specific backgrounds, especially the ones that ended up redundant across multiple. And at the end of the day, I'd much rather the space they took up be assigned to beautiful art.
Oh the tables of preset PBIF were definitely wasted space, but the concept themselves and a short explanation for each would be great. Kinda like ..
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Without the rules interaction, PBIF become "useful questions to answer when creating a character". Which is certainly a reasonable topic to have in an RPG, though it's almost entirely system-agnostic and mostly not even RPG-specific, but you probably want more than four.
Yes, something which I think is better served with that format than, "pick one of Nine Alignments from this chart."
Well sure, I'm not saying PBIF is the end all and be all of character psychology questionnaires, but I do think it's the best one that D&D has had.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
If you play BG3 you will see it work as intended. Honestly as a DM it's the most difficult system to try and track. I use to give out inspirations after fights, or have the party vote on "player of the session" for it, nothing worked well IMO because you can only have one, and the player has to remember to use it. So I don't even bother unless I see someone remember to use it.