If it's not mindless consumerism how is it exactly that a 5E you sang the praises of until just recently is all of a sudden such a bad game in need of replacing and urgently? And again, you routinely like comments in which the poster has questioned someone's English ability or even intelligence. You can stop pretending you find insults oh-so-unacceptable when it is so obvious you are okay with them when they are directed at those with whom you disagree. I'm old enough to remember when being a hypocrite was deemed to be an awful thing. Pity we now live in a time when it's acceptable just as long as it's expedient. Also again, I am not talking about Beyond or any online toolkit when I mention retro gaming. This is in response to your insisting "new is better." You might prefer the newer version of something. Insisting it is better when better is subjective is puerile. It's like how the little rich kid at school tells others he has the best thing because his is the newest thing.
If Beyond did that it would be much better for the site than having scores of homebrew versions of the same spells and same items clogging up their databases. At the Checkout buyers were told buying a book guaranteed access to that book's content using their toolkit. They can uphold that promise by putting in the work to ensure that content is still a part of the toolkit. Not expect players to do their work for them.
1) My upvoting someone else's comment means I agree with the overarching point it's making, not necessarily every single word choice they chose to make within it.
2) I've been in support of the rules revision since before the playtest even started. My support for 5e doesn't mean I don't think it was deeply flawed and badly in need of said revision after 10 years.
3) I think the new thing is better because... I think it's better... not merely because it's new. I've read the new spells, the new species, the new classes and feats etc, and overwhelmingly, I do find them to be superior to what we had before.
You can think it's better all you want, hell it could even be objectively better and i would still be against foisting it on people who may or may not be in the middle of a campaign (or maybe eve a session) when it happens and have to upend their entire game to accomodate it right then and there
5e could be the worst system to ever exist and i would still oppose this for that very reason
I would have at least preferred a longer transition period - my group is still running a 2014 campaign, and won't consider switching until ALL the new books are out at the earliest.
So let me get this straight, the thing I bought is being replaced by the thing I don't want to buy. Will I be getting a refund then?
Basically the spells and magic items are being updated with no Legacy version, that I can tell. All your other stuff, classes, races. Etc will be tagged Separately and you can still use them.
The 2014 basic rules, I believe, will still be unchanged until all three books are out. But I could be wrong about that.
Here’s a quote
What Isn’t Changing: Access to the 2014 Rules and Homebrew
You will not lose access to the Basic Rules or to your copies of the 2014 Player’s Handbook, Dungeon Master’s Guide, or Monster Manual.
You’ll continue to be able to create characters in the Character Builder using the classes, subclasses, species, backgrounds, and feats found in the 2014 Player’s Handbook. All the monsters found in the 2014 Monster Manual will also still be available for use in the toolset. These materials will be marked with a Legacy badge if there are newer versions of them in the 2024 Core Rulebooks.
Finally, existing homebrew will not be impacted by the changes we roll out. The exception to this is for homebrew that includes tooltips in their descriptions. We are updating tooltips and, therefore, homebrew that uses them will see these changes reflected.
Also: from examples of backwards compatibility:
Your character has Healing Word prepared and you want to cast the spell. When you click on the spell on your character sheet, you will see the new version of Healing Word. However, you can still find the old version of Healing Word in your copy of the Basic Rules and the 2014 Player’s Handbook in the compendium.
Personally, I’m fine with the changes but understand other’s frustration. I would prefer all the old content to be tagged and kept.
The argument of legacy spells clogging searchers doesn’t seem to hold water when Legacy classes, subclasses, species, feats, monsters (like MotM) etc would probably out number the amount of spells, yet that’s no problem apparently.
If they keep the 2014 Basic Rules (not sure what they mean by “in your copy of the Basic Rules”) available to see those spells it would be less of a problem possibly.
The argument of legacy spells clogging searchers doesn’t seem to hold water when Legacy classes, subclasses, species, feats, monsters (like MotM) etc would probably out number the amount of spells, yet that’s no problem apparently.
The first four definitely don't. Monsters might, but their tooltips are being forced to 2024 anyway:
"Further, all tooltips and links to monsters will also be updated to point to their newest version"
and it's not like monsters are in the character builder either.
Wizards of the Cost you need to not mess with us like this. WHY wouldn't you just keep DNDBeyond with the 5e format - and create DNDBeyondONE - for the new stuff.
Something - or the very least - don't take EVERYTHING away - keep things with Legacy so we can access it - don't make it so we can't access the books we already paid for and the stuff we don't want changed.
Allow us to use 5e or One - just make it a toggle - do you want 5e to be your primary or One to be your primary.
You screw the people who are keeping you in business, not really very smart.
Reminder: This is not a discussion to see which system is better. This is a discussion on them forcing the new system upon those who don't want it. If you want a "This version is better" debate, go to another dicussion. :3
Possible solution, when making a character have a little tab to toggle between 2014 and 2024 versions? maybe
Roll20 does this, Dndbeyond needs to do this too, it's extremely simple. Hopefully, we can convince them to do so. Raising awareness and protesting their decision has worked before!
The argument of legacy spells clogging searchers doesn’t seem to hold water when Legacy classes, subclasses, species, feats, monsters (like MotM) etc would probably out number the amount of spells, yet that’s no problem apparently.
The first four definitely don't. Monsters might, but their tooltips are being forced to 2024 anyway:
"Further, all tooltips and links to monsters will also be updated to point to their newest version"
and it's not like monsters are in the character builder either.
Monsters are in the Character builder under Extras.
So to me this is not too difficult to manage, but a lot simpler than say World of Warcraft video game where you can't choose to play a LichKing version of a class.
I just need a list of what of what spells/items are changing before hand to make the Homebrew copy now. Have they provided a list, so we can start now? I'm sure I can have it done in like 30-60 minutes for any I would like to keep.
Still it would have been simpler for them to just create a copy called "spiritual weapon 2014" for example
I understand your point but people are now unable to use a feature they paid money for.. There would probably be less uproar if they gave a credit or a discount for the new stuff
"Mindless" - see, you can't make a single point without injecting a personal attack. Your approach doesn't exactly lend itself to sympathy.
I'll defend whatever decisions I feel like defending. And "Retro gaming is a thing" does not mean the official toolset needs to support everything that came before. If I want to play my old NES games, sure some of them might be purchasable on Switch, but I know I need to go find an emulator for the ones that aren't.
Maybe they'll figure out some kind of toggle that keeps the legacy versions from clogging up search results or the character builder when I'm reading through/picking spells. If they do great. But for the vast, vast majority of the spells I'm going to be using the updated versions, so their plan to not support them doesn't affect me.
I think he meant it in the way, dont think about the implications or downsides, or how it affects people that are not you, just consume the product and dont think about it, which is exactly how everything nowadays has gone to shit
They have now decided to allow you to decide which set of rules you want to use when creating a character, the 2014 or the 2024 as a result of the backlash over the previous decision.
You can think it's better all you want, hell it could even be objectively better and i would still be against foisting it on people who may or may not be in the middle of a campaign (or maybe eve a session) when it happens and have to upend their entire game to accomodate it right then and there
5e could be the worst system to ever exist and i would still oppose this for that very reason
So let me get this straight, the thing I bought is being replaced by the thing I don't want to buy. Will I be getting a refund then?
I would have at least preferred a longer transition period - my group is still running a 2014 campaign, and won't consider switching until ALL the new books are out at the earliest.
Basically the spells and magic items are being updated with no Legacy version, that I can tell. All your other stuff, classes, races. Etc will be tagged Separately and you can still use them.
The 2014 basic rules, I believe, will still be unchanged until all three books are out. But I could be wrong about that.
Here’s a quote
Also: from examples of backwards compatibility:
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Personally, I’m fine with the changes but understand other’s frustration. I would prefer all the old content to be tagged and kept.
The argument of legacy spells clogging searchers doesn’t seem to hold water when Legacy classes, subclasses, species, feats, monsters (like MotM) etc would probably out number the amount of spells, yet that’s no problem apparently.
If they keep the 2014 Basic Rules (not sure what they mean by “in your copy of the Basic Rules”) available to see those spells it would be less of a problem possibly.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Delete my content and spells in the middle of running a campaign and lose my subscription and direct future purchases.
Your choice WoTC
The first four definitely don't. Monsters might, but their tooltips are being forced to 2024 anyway:
"Further, all tooltips and links to monsters will also be updated to point to their newest version"
and it's not like monsters are in the character builder either.
Possible solution, when making a character have a little tab to toggle between 2014 and 2024 versions? maybe
Wizards of the Cost you need to not mess with us like this. WHY wouldn't you just keep DNDBeyond with the 5e format - and create DNDBeyondONE - for the new stuff.
Something - or the very least - don't take EVERYTHING away - keep things with Legacy so we can access it - don't make it so we can't access the books we already paid for and the stuff we don't want changed.
Allow us to use 5e or One - just make it a toggle - do you want 5e to be your primary or One to be your primary.
You screw the people who are keeping you in business, not really very smart.
Reminder: This is not a discussion to see which system is better. This is a discussion on them forcing the new system upon those who don't want it. If you want a "This version is better" debate, go to another dicussion. :3
Roll20 does this, Dndbeyond needs to do this too, it's extremely simple. Hopefully, we can convince them to do so. Raising awareness and protesting their decision has worked before!
Monsters are in the Character builder under Extras.
So to me this is not too difficult to manage, but a lot simpler than say World of Warcraft video game where you can't choose to play a LichKing version of a class.
I just need a list of what of what spells/items are changing before hand to make the Homebrew copy now. Have they provided a list, so we can start now? I'm sure I can have it done in like 30-60 minutes for any I would like to keep.
Still it would have been simpler for them to just create a copy called "spiritual weapon 2014" for example
shhh that might bring us "5e classic" character sheets for an added sub
I understand your point but people are now unable to use a feature they paid money for.. There would probably be less uproar if they gave a credit or a discount for the new stuff
I think he meant it in the way, dont think about the implications or downsides, or how it affects people that are not you, just consume the product and dont think about it, which is exactly how everything nowadays has gone to shit
In case anyone didn't see it.
They have now decided to allow you to decide which set of rules you want to use when creating a character, the 2014 or the 2024 as a result of the backlash over the previous decision.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1806-2024-d-d-beyond-ruleset-changelog-update
Wooo they listened, gj everyone
Take a look at their most recent Changelog. I think they heard you and others?
I would be halfway fine with this if the books had a digital code so you can put it on dnd beyond!