What is a meaningful change in DPR at Tier 4? I've seen articles citing what constitutes a "good" DPR at each tier. These were written for 5E and are outdated in light of changes made in 2024 and to martials in particular. But I've not seen any discussion on what constitutes an important change in DPR at any tier.
Define important? In general you should just consider the percent change, and it will be about as noticeable regardless of tier; 10% is unlikely to be noticed, 50% is very likely to be noticed, and intermediate changes are intermediate.
What is a meaningful change in DPR at Tier 4? I've seen articles citing what constitutes a "good" DPR at each tier. These were written for 5E and are outdated in light of changes made in 2024 and to martials in particular. But I've not seen any discussion on what constitutes an important change in DPR at any tier.
I don't think there are really meaningful changes in DPR. For the most part you do more damage, but your enemies have more hp to make up for you doing more damage.
What is a meaningful change in DPR at Tier 4? I've seen articles citing what constitutes a "good" DPR at each tier. These were written for 5E and are outdated in light of changes made in 2024 and to martials in particular. But I've not seen any discussion on what constitutes an important change in DPR at any tier.
I don't think there are really meaningful changes in DPR. For the most part you do more damage, but your enemies have more hp to make up for you doing more damage.
It depends on what you base the calculation on. Mathematically speaking the ratio is not balanced to the CR rating of the monsters appropriate to the level of characters, so what ends up happening if you use the CR system is that the monsters will die faster at higher levels because you do a lot more damage than the increase of hit points they receive.
The reason there is very little discussion on it is because 99% of campaigns played never reach Tier 4.
Pantagruel666, That's the $64,000 question. I would interpret important as an enemy HP threshold based on character level. Perhaps a percentage of average enemy HP based on character level or CR, which could then be linked to tier of play. What we are really trying to get at is a level of HP reduction that reduces the duration of combat meaningfully.
Pantagruel666, That's the $64,000 question. I would interpret important as an enemy HP threshold based on character level. Perhaps a percentage of average enemy HP based on character level or CR, which could then be linked to tier of play. What we are really trying to get at is a level of HP reduction that reduces the duration of combat meaningfully.
How long are your combats? Most of mine go the typical 3-5 rounds as expected. Which feels like a pretty good number as it gives you 3-5 chances to use your cool tricks you get to do.
When they last too long (in terms of time on the real world clock and not rounds of combat), I find it to be a combination of persistent effects we need to keep remembering and then using, and players who can’t quite decide what to do. And to a lesser extent, funky rules interactions we need to decide on.
Pantagruel666, That's the $64,000 question. I would interpret important as an enemy HP threshold based on character level. Perhaps a percentage of average enemy HP based on character level or CR, which could then be linked to tier of play. What we are really trying to get at is a level of HP reduction that reduces the duration of combat meaningfully.
A 10% dpr increase reduces combat duration by about 9%, a 50% by about 33%. Some of this depends on how high tier fights are actually balanced; an actually challenging tier 4 fight is likely to be several times deadly and thus may turn into a bit of a slog.
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What is a meaningful change in DPR at Tier 4? I've seen articles citing what constitutes a "good" DPR at each tier. These were written for 5E and are outdated in light of changes made in 2024 and to martials in particular. But I've not seen any discussion on what constitutes an important change in DPR at any tier.
Define important? In general you should just consider the percent change, and it will be about as noticeable regardless of tier; 10% is unlikely to be noticed, 50% is very likely to be noticed, and intermediate changes are intermediate.
I don't think there are really meaningful changes in DPR. For the most part you do more damage, but your enemies have more hp to make up for you doing more damage.
It depends on what you base the calculation on. Mathematically speaking the ratio is not balanced to the CR rating of the monsters appropriate to the level of characters, so what ends up happening if you use the CR system is that the monsters will die faster at higher levels because you do a lot more damage than the increase of hit points they receive.
The reason there is very little discussion on it is because 99% of campaigns played never reach Tier 4.
There's also the fact that by tier 4 one would expect several waves of encounters without rests, so individual staying power is less relevant.
Pantagruel666, That's the $64,000 question. I would interpret important as an enemy HP threshold based on character level. Perhaps a percentage of average enemy HP based on character level or CR, which could then be linked to tier of play. What we are really trying to get at is a level of HP reduction that reduces the duration of combat meaningfully.
How long are your combats? Most of mine go the typical 3-5 rounds as expected. Which feels like a pretty good number as it gives you 3-5 chances to use your cool tricks you get to do.
When they last too long (in terms of time on the real world clock and not rounds of combat), I find it to be a combination of persistent effects we need to keep remembering and then using, and players who can’t quite decide what to do. And to a lesser extent, funky rules interactions we need to decide on.
A 10% dpr increase reduces combat duration by about 9%, a 50% by about 33%. Some of this depends on how high tier fights are actually balanced; an actually challenging tier 4 fight is likely to be several times deadly and thus may turn into a bit of a slog.