Honestly there isn't much preventing a party planning on fighting a red dragon to grabbing some potions of fire resistance which would basically be better since it wouldn't require any concentration.
Even as a player, this always feels a bit gamey to me. I mean if they are available - and in a generic high magic, high level campaign there is a decent argument that they would be - of course the party would do this. But it does tend to remove some of the danger/thrill. As a DM I tend to work around this kind of stuff by thinking about how the red dragon has survived up to that point, and then I implement traps and tactics that target other defenses while also allowing the party to feel like their preparation paid off when the breath weapon hits.
The barbarian stuff seems like a tangent, but it's a great example on the difference between single buffs and group buffs. Classic party tanks need to balance defense with aggro - if a player is unkillable, a fairly obvious way to counter that is to simply ignore them and beat on easier targets. Make the player work for enemy attention. You don't need to TPK the party for the party to lose an encounter - the barbarian can't stop the BBEG's ritual all by themselves.
Likewise, many of these spell buffs target one player so that the enemies have alternate options, and the player needs to balance their actions and resources between protecting themselves and being a big enough threat to warrant needing protection. This kind of decision making and give-and-take is what makes combat engaging.
Gaseous Form pretty much knocks you out of the fight. Except in niche cases, it's not going to break anything.
Intellect Fortress is potentially game bending or breaking because you can predict what it grants you, but it's a rare damage type (psychic), at least in my experience. For most campaigns, it might cause problems for one quest or maybe two.
Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron would potentially be game breaking, if it weren't random. You get 1/8 chance of getting the right Resistance for a L6 spell slot. That's going to screw you over more than help.
So really, it's just Intellect Fortress, which grants a fixed Resistance to an uncommonly used damage type. Compare that to Protection from Energy that grants it to your choice of several common damage types like fire and cold. They're not the same.
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Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron would potentially be game breaking, if it weren't random. You get 1/8 chance of getting the right Resistance for a L6 spell slot. That's going to screw you over more than help.
Umm, huh? The caster chooses what potion is in the cauldron
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That’s a fuzzy area- technically the magic item entry has a table that is rolled on or assigned by the DM for what kind of resistance potion you get. How it interacts with the spell is undefined, and you could make a case either way.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That’s a fuzzy area- technically the magic item entry has a table that is rolled on or assigned by the DM for what kind of resistance potion you get.
The table is irrelevant
You're not naming a generic "Potion of Resistance". You're specifically naming a potion of fire resistance, or whichever one it is you want
I just went by the details they gave. They said to get a potion or resistance, which linked to one that was random.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
That’s a fuzzy area- technically the magic item entry has a table that is rolled on or assigned by the DM for what kind of resistance potion you get.
The table is irrelevant
You're not naming a generic "Potion of Resistance". You're specifically naming a potion of fire resistance, or whichever one it is you want
Like I said, fuzzy; technically the entry for the item as it appears in the DMG uses a roll table to determine the properties of any one given resistance potion at the time it’s introduced in-game. There’s a case to be made that it means you can’t specify type of resistance when you cast the spell, just as you technically have little control over exactly what you summon with a ‘14 Conjure spell. And, just as a lot of DMs let people pick their summons anyways, there’s nothing outright against letting the caster determine the resistance type.
My original question was asking whether the spell protection from energy could be upscaled to target additional people. Bare in mind that the spell only allow for protection from one element and requires concentration. Honestly there isn't much preventing a party planning on fighting a red dragon to grabbing some potions of fire resistance which would basically be better since it wouldn't require any concentration. I just don't see how upscaling this spell would be overpowered.
Spellcasters don’t need even more methods of bypassing threats. It may not be OP, but fine they can’t upcast it to multiple party members.
That’s a fuzzy area- technically the magic item entry has a table that is rolled on or assigned by the DM for what kind of resistance potion you get.
The table is irrelevant
You're not naming a generic "Potion of Resistance". You're specifically naming a potion of fire resistance, or whichever one it is you want
I just went by the details they gave. They said to get a potion or resistance, which linked to one that was random.
I linked to the generic instance because I didn't want to specifically type out all 10 possible options of Potions of [damage type] Resistance. Every last one of them is an uncommon potion which makes each one a valid selection for the spell.
There’s a case to be made that it means you can’t specify type of resistance when you cast the spell
Not really, no
There are individual potions that offer specific resistances. You name one when you cast the spell. That's literally how the spell works
The liquid in the cauldron duplicates the properties of a Common or an Uncommon potion of your choice
I suppose if you didn't specify which potion you wanted and just said "Potion of Resistance" then the DM would use the random table, but why would someone ever do that?
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
There’s a case to be made that it means you can’t specify type of resistance when you cast the spell
Not really, no
There are individual potions that offer specific resistances. You name one when you cast the spell. That's literally how the spell works
The liquid in the cauldron duplicates the properties of a Common or an Uncommon potion of your choice
I suppose if you didn't specify which potion you wanted and just said "Potion of Resistance" then the DM would use the random table, but why would someone ever do that?
Except technically the printed list of magic items groups them all in one entry. One can infer that the intent of the spell is to allow you to pick the specific iteration you want, but given the way the option is presented it’s not explicit, which gives a DM stronger grounds to rule otherwise if so inclined than might otherwise be the case. I’m not saying either way is objectively correct, just that exactly how the distinction between potions that are clearly separate entries in their books and potions that subdivide within their entry is not set in stone in the spell description. And, frankly, the more restrictive one seems like a fair ball given that not only would the other likely hit one more target that a “1 extra per upcast level” effect on PfE would, but rather than using concentration and a universal timer the effects can be banked at no further cost to the caster.
There’s a case to be made that it means you can’t specify type of resistance when you cast the spell
Not really, no
There are individual potions that offer specific resistances. You name one when you cast the spell. That's literally how the spell works
The liquid in the cauldron duplicates the properties of a Common or an Uncommon potion of your choice
I suppose if you didn't specify which potion you wanted and just said "Potion of Resistance" then the DM would use the random table, but why would someone ever do that?
Except technically the printed list of magic items groups them all in one entry. One can infer that the intent of the spell is to allow you to pick the specific iteration you want, but given the way the option is presented it’s not explicit, which gives a DM stronger grounds to rule otherwise if so inclined than might otherwise be the case. I’m not saying either way is objectively correct, just that exactly how the distinction between potions that are clearly separate entries in their books and potions that subdivide within their entry is not set in stone in the spell description. And, frankly, the more restrictive one seems like a fair ball given that not only would the other likely hit one more target that a “1 extra per upcast level” effect on PfE would, but rather than using concentration and a universal timer the effects can be banked at no further cost to the caster.
I do think it is explicit that you get to choose the potion of your choice. Not a category of your choice. Or a DMG table of your choice. You pick the potion of your choice. So if you want a potion of fire resistance, it will be exactly that.
Now if this was a 2nd level spell, and worded differently, then I might think otherwise. But why waste a spell slot on a random potion. Leave that to 3rd level Alchemist Artificers LOL.
Except technically the printed list of magic items groups them all in one entry. One can infer that the intent of the spell is to allow you to pick the specific iteration you want, but given the way the option is presented it’s not explicit, which gives a DM stronger grounds to rule otherwise if so inclined than might otherwise be the case. I’m not saying either way is objectively correct, just that exactly how the distinction between potions that are clearly separate entries in their books and potions that subdivide within their entry is not set in stone in the spell description. And, frankly, the more restrictive one seems like a fair ball given that not only would the other likely hit one more target that a “1 extra per upcast level” effect on PfE would, but rather than using concentration and a universal timer the effects can be banked at no further cost to the caster.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Except technically the printed list of magic items groups them all in one entry. One can infer that the intent of the spell is to allow you to pick the specific iteration you want, but given the way the option is presented it’s not explicit, which gives a DM stronger grounds to rule otherwise if so inclined than might otherwise be the case. I’m not saying either way is objectively correct, just that exactly how the distinction between potions that are clearly separate entries in their books and potions that subdivide within their entry is not set in stone in the spell description. And, frankly, the more restrictive one seems like a fair ball given that not only would the other likely hit one more target that a “1 extra per upcast level” effect on PfE would, but rather than using concentration and a universal timer the effects can be banked at no further cost to the caster.
There is an entry for recordkeeping on D&DB that meets those criteria, but the description that appears in the DMG is simply Potion of Resistance, and it explicitly places what property any given instance of that potion has in the hands of the DM to determine.
If being able to upcast PfE verges on being broken, how is pulling out a stronger version of that effect that can then be banked not broken?
Except technically the printed list of magic items groups them all in one entry. One can infer that the intent of the spell is to allow you to pick the specific iteration you want, but given the way the option is presented it’s not explicit, which gives a DM stronger grounds to rule otherwise if so inclined than might otherwise be the case. I’m not saying either way is objectively correct, just that exactly how the distinction between potions that are clearly separate entries in their books and potions that subdivide within their entry is not set in stone in the spell description. And, frankly, the more restrictive one seems like a fair ball given that not only would the other likely hit one more target that a “1 extra per upcast level” effect on PfE would, but rather than using concentration and a universal timer the effects can be banked at no further cost to the caster.
There is an entry for recordkeeping on D&DB that meets those criteria
C'mon, my dude. Are you actually attempting to deny that specific resistance potions exist in DnD 5e?
Do I need to point to an officially published module that lets you find a specific Potion of Something Resistance?
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Except technically the printed list of magic items groups them all in one entry. One can infer that the intent of the spell is to allow you to pick the specific iteration you want, but given the way the option is presented it’s not explicit, which gives a DM stronger grounds to rule otherwise if so inclined than might otherwise be the case. I’m not saying either way is objectively correct, just that exactly how the distinction between potions that are clearly separate entries in their books and potions that subdivide within their entry is not set in stone in the spell description. And, frankly, the more restrictive one seems like a fair ball given that not only would the other likely hit one more target that a “1 extra per upcast level” effect on PfE would, but rather than using concentration and a universal timer the effects can be banked at no further cost to the caster.
There is an entry for recordkeeping on D&DB that meets those criteria
C'mon, my dude. Are you actually attempting to deny that specific resistance potions exist in DnD 5e?
Do I need to point to an officially published module that lets you find a specific Potion of Something Resistance?
I'm pointing out the exact wording of the entry, and how it does open interpretations besides the one most favorable to the players when it interacts with Tasha's Cauldron.
I'm pointing out the exact wording of the entry, and how it does open interpretations besides the one most favorable to the players when it interacts with Tasha's Cauldron.
There is no other interpretation for "I want the cauldron to produce potion of fire resistance", my dude
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm pointing out the exact wording of the entry, and how it does open interpretations besides the one most favorable to the players when it interacts with Tasha's Cauldron.
There is no other interpretation for "I want the cauldron to produce potion of fire resistance", my dude
Except, per the DMG, there is no "Potion of Fire Resistance" option, there is a Potion of Resistance that might or might not be fire based on what the DM assigns.
I'm pointing out the exact wording of the entry, and how it does open interpretations besides the one most favorable to the players when it interacts with Tasha's Cauldron.
There is no other interpretation for "I want the cauldron to produce potion of fire resistance", my dude
Except, per the DMG, there is no "Potion of Fire Resistance" option, there is a Potion of Resistance that might or might not be fire based on what the DM assigns.
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm pointing out the exact wording of the entry, and how it does open interpretations besides the one most favorable to the players when it interacts with Tasha's Cauldron.
There is no other interpretation for "I want the cauldron to produce potion of fire resistance", my dude
Except, per the DMG, there is no "Potion of Fire Resistance" option, there is a Potion of Resistance that might or might not be fire based on what the DM assigns.
If you apply the filters to narrow the list of magic items on this site down to Uncommon Potions from the 2014 DMG, you will not find Potion of Fire Resistance as an entry. You will find Potion of Resistance, which says the DM determines what type it is. Ergo, by RAW, the case exists that it is within the DM's/adventure writers' purview to decide what type any given Potion of Resistance is, even in the case of this spell.
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Even as a player, this always feels a bit gamey to me. I mean if they are available - and in a generic high magic, high level campaign there is a decent argument that they would be - of course the party would do this. But it does tend to remove some of the danger/thrill. As a DM I tend to work around this kind of stuff by thinking about how the red dragon has survived up to that point, and then I implement traps and tactics that target other defenses while also allowing the party to feel like their preparation paid off when the breath weapon hits.
The barbarian stuff seems like a tangent, but it's a great example on the difference between single buffs and group buffs. Classic party tanks need to balance defense with aggro - if a player is unkillable, a fairly obvious way to counter that is to simply ignore them and beat on easier targets. Make the player work for enemy attention. You don't need to TPK the party for the party to lose an encounter - the barbarian can't stop the BBEG's ritual all by themselves.
Likewise, many of these spell buffs target one player so that the enemies have alternate options, and the player needs to balance their actions and resources between protecting themselves and being a big enough threat to warrant needing protection. This kind of decision making and give-and-take is what makes combat engaging.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Gaseous Form pretty much knocks you out of the fight. Except in niche cases, it's not going to break anything.
Intellect Fortress is potentially game bending or breaking because you can predict what it grants you, but it's a rare damage type (psychic), at least in my experience. For most campaigns, it might cause problems for one quest or maybe two.
Tasha's Bubbling Cauldron would potentially be game breaking, if it weren't random. You get 1/8 chance of getting the right Resistance for a L6 spell slot. That's going to screw you over more than help.
So really, it's just Intellect Fortress, which grants a fixed Resistance to an uncommonly used damage type. Compare that to Protection from Energy that grants it to your choice of several common damage types like fire and cold. They're not the same.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Umm, huh? The caster chooses what potion is in the cauldron
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
That’s a fuzzy area- technically the magic item entry has a table that is rolled on or assigned by the DM for what kind of resistance potion you get. How it interacts with the spell is undefined, and you could make a case either way.
The table is irrelevant
You're not naming a generic "Potion of Resistance". You're specifically naming a potion of fire resistance, or whichever one it is you want
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I just went by the details they gave. They said to get a potion or resistance, which linked to one that was random.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Like I said, fuzzy; technically the entry for the item as it appears in the DMG uses a roll table to determine the properties of any one given resistance potion at the time it’s introduced in-game. There’s a case to be made that it means you can’t specify type of resistance when you cast the spell, just as you technically have little control over exactly what you summon with a ‘14 Conjure spell. And, just as a lot of DMs let people pick their summons anyways, there’s nothing outright against letting the caster determine the resistance type.
Spellcasters don’t need even more methods of bypassing threats. It may not be OP, but fine they can’t upcast it to multiple party members.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I linked to the generic instance because I didn't want to specifically type out all 10 possible options of Potions of [damage type] Resistance.
Every last one of them is an uncommon potion which makes each one a valid selection for the spell.
Not really, no
There are individual potions that offer specific resistances. You name one when you cast the spell. That's literally how the spell works
I suppose if you didn't specify which potion you wanted and just said "Potion of Resistance" then the DM would use the random table, but why would someone ever do that?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Except technically the printed list of magic items groups them all in one entry. One can infer that the intent of the spell is to allow you to pick the specific iteration you want, but given the way the option is presented it’s not explicit, which gives a DM stronger grounds to rule otherwise if so inclined than might otherwise be the case. I’m not saying either way is objectively correct, just that exactly how the distinction between potions that are clearly separate entries in their books and potions that subdivide within their entry is not set in stone in the spell description. And, frankly, the more restrictive one seems like a fair ball given that not only would the other likely hit one more target that a “1 extra per upcast level” effect on PfE would, but rather than using concentration and a universal timer the effects can be banked at no further cost to the caster.
I do think it is explicit that you get to choose the potion of your choice. Not a category of your choice. Or a DMG table of your choice. You pick the potion of your choice. So if you want a potion of fire resistance, it will be exactly that.
Now if this was a 2nd level spell, and worded differently, then I might think otherwise. But why waste a spell slot on a random potion. Leave that to 3rd level Alchemist Artificers LOL.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
True or false: there is a magic item called a potion of fire resistance which is of Uncommon rarity
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
There is an entry for recordkeeping on D&DB that meets those criteria, but the description that appears in the DMG is simply Potion of Resistance, and it explicitly places what property any given instance of that potion has in the hands of the DM to determine.
If being able to upcast PfE verges on being broken, how is pulling out a stronger version of that effect that can then be banked not broken?
C'mon, my dude. Are you actually attempting to deny that specific resistance potions exist in DnD 5e?
Do I need to point to an officially published module that lets you find a specific Potion of Something Resistance?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I'm pointing out the exact wording of the entry, and how it does open interpretations besides the one most favorable to the players when it interacts with Tasha's Cauldron.
There is no other interpretation for "I want the cauldron to produce potion of fire resistance", my dude
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Except, per the DMG, there is no "Potion of Fire Resistance" option, there is a Potion of Resistance that might or might not be fire based on what the DM assigns.
So you are denying that specific resistance potions exist. Fascinating
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
If you apply the filters to narrow the list of magic items on this site down to Uncommon Potions from the 2014 DMG, you will not find Potion of Fire Resistance as an entry. You will find Potion of Resistance, which says the DM determines what type it is. Ergo, by RAW, the case exists that it is within the DM's/adventure writers' purview to decide what type any given Potion of Resistance is, even in the case of this spell.