So in the 2024 rules as a warlock at level 5, you can take an eldritch invocation(Pact of the blade's upgrade; Thirsting blade) magically granting an extra attack with your pact weapon specifically, my question is, does this eldritch invocation stack with a paladin/fighter/ect's extra attack, because it's coming from a different source(2 Eldritch invocations(Warlock) instead of class feature(Martial class)) and has different requirements for said extra attack(Pact weapon only)?
For example, a martial class's extra attack could be used to throw 2 separate weapons, javelins for instance, at an enemy at range, but thirsting blades invocation would only allow using the pact weapon specifically for the extra attack, making it a lesser version of the martial class's extra attack. So could you throw a Javelin, throw a second Javelin, and then move and slash with your pact weapon?
And if not, doesn't that mean the invocation is broken(Doesn't work), if you've already dipped into a martial class because one's extra attack is superior to the other, and it nulls the invocation out?
You gain the Extra Attack feature for your pact weapon only. With that feature, you can attack twice with the weapon instead of once when you take the Attack action on your turn.
And no, it isn't broken. If you multiclass into another class that has Extra Attack, then don't take the invocation, or swap it out
Replacing and Gaining Invocations. Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one of your invocations with another one for which you qualify. You can’t replace an invocation if it’s a prerequisite for another invocation that you have.
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Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
You gain the Extra Attack feature for your pact weapon only. With that feature, you can attack twice with the weapon instead of once when you take the Attack action on your turn.
And no, it isn't broken. If you multiclass into another class that has Extra Attack, then don't take the invocation, or swap it out
Replacing and Gaining Invocations. Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one of your invocations with another one for which you qualify. You can’t replace an invocation if it’s a prerequisite for another invocation that you have.
The Pact of the Blade invoc. is still useful if you have it for the bonding effects, including creating a standard Simple or Martial melee weapon out of thin air with just the right weapon mastery for the situation, assuming your character has weapon mastery's, of course.
You gain the Extra Attack feature for your pact weapon only. With that feature, you can attack twice with the weapon instead of once when you take the Attack action on your turn.
And no, it isn't broken. If you multiclass into another class that has Extra Attack, then don't take the invocation, or swap it out
Replacing and Gaining Invocations. Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one of your invocations with another one for which you qualify. You can’t replace an invocation if it’s a prerequisite for another invocation that you have.
The Pact of the Blade invoc. is still useful if you have it for the bonding effects, including creating a standard Simple or Martial melee weapon out of thin air with just the right weapon mastery for the situation, assuming your character has weapon mastery's, of course, from the feat or multiclassing.
Even if the features could stack, they perform the same action, which is that they enable you to make two attacks when taking the attack action, it's an effect that can't stack as written anyway since Extra Attack specifies 2, rather than an additional attack.
If you are looking for another attack you can get one with your bonus action from using two different weapons. Better yet, if your last weapon you attack with has the nick property and you are trained with that weapon you can make the bonus attack as part of your action! The only catch is you cannot add your ability modifier… unless you take the two weapon fighting style, but as a warlock I would recommend something else since your main weapon should be your pact weapon to get your charisma ability modifier; since your strength/dexterity modifier will be much lower, you will want that to be for your “final” and bonus attacks.
Daggers are nick weapons, but I recommend starting with the scimitar at level 1 in your non-warlock class. Then once you become a warlock and have your pact weapon you can summon whatever weapon you want, but keep the scimitar. Once you get extra attack, make your pact weapon a rapier and train with it to get the vex weapon property. Attack first with your rapier so your scimitar attacks with advantage. As long as your scimitar hits, you can use your bonus attack.
One last thing: hex’s bonus damage works with each attack, including the bonus one! So, cast hex first with your bonus action!
If you have any other questions on the build let me know!
I’m still new at this, so the terms I used may not be correct. Heck, maybe even this strategy is faulty, but I’ve been asking around about it a lot since i heard about it from someone else.
You gain the Extra Attack feature for your pact weapon only. With that feature, you can attack twice with the weapon instead of once when you take the Attack action on your turn.
And no, it isn't broken. If you multiclass into another class that has Extra Attack, then don't take the invocation, or swap it out
Replacing and Gaining Invocations. Whenever you gain a Warlock level, you can replace one of your invocations with another one for which you qualify. You can’t replace an invocation if it’s a prerequisite for another invocation that you have.
The Pact of the Blade invoc. is still useful if you have it for the bonding effects, including creating a standard Simple or Martial melee weapon out of thin air with just the right weapon mastery for the situation, assuming your character has weapon mastery's, of course.
Anton is saying you should swap out or avoid Thirsting Blade if you get Extra Attack elsewhere, not Pact of the Blade.
Even if the features could stack, they perform the same action, which is that they enable you to make two attacks when taking the attack action, it's an effect that can't stack as written anyway since they Extra Attack specifies 2, rather than an additional attack.
This is also correct. Saying "You get two" multiple times still means you end up with two.
If you gain the Extra Attack feature from more than one class, the features don’t stack. You can’t make more than two attacks with this feature unless you have a feature that says you can (such as the Fighter’s Two Extra Attacks feature).
Similarly, the Warlock’s Thirsting Blade invocation, which grants you the Extra Attack feature with your pact weapon, doesn’t give you additional attacks if you also have Extra Attack.
Just to add, the Combining Game Effects rule from the 2014 DMG isn't in the 2024 DMG, which seems a bit odd to me :(
Combining Game Effects
Different game features can affect a target at the same time. But when two or more game features have the same name, only the effects of one of them—the most potent one—apply while the durations of the effects overlap. For example, if a target is ignited by a fire elemental’s Fire Form trait, the ongoing fire damage doesn’t increase if the burning target is subjected to that trait again. Game features include spells, class features, feats, racial traits, monster abilities, and magic items. See the related rule in the “Combining Magical Effects” section of chapter 10 in the Player’s Handbook.
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So in the 2024 rules as a warlock at level 5, you can take an eldritch invocation(Pact of the blade's upgrade; Thirsting blade) magically granting an extra attack with your pact weapon specifically, my question is, does this eldritch invocation stack with a paladin/fighter/ect's extra attack, because it's coming from a different source(2 Eldritch invocations(Warlock) instead of class feature(Martial class)) and has different requirements for said extra attack(Pact weapon only)?
For example, a martial class's extra attack could be used to throw 2 separate weapons, javelins for instance, at an enemy at range, but thirsting blades invocation would only allow using the pact weapon specifically for the extra attack, making it a lesser version of the martial class's extra attack. So could you throw a Javelin, throw a second Javelin, and then move and slash with your pact weapon?
And if not, doesn't that mean the invocation is broken(Doesn't work), if you've already dipped into a martial class because one's extra attack is superior to the other, and it nulls the invocation out?
No. Features with the same name don't stack
And no, it isn't broken. If you multiclass into another class that has Extra Attack, then don't take the invocation, or swap it out
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
sounds interesting to know if you are playing a warlock/martial multiclass.
The Pact of the Blade invoc. is still useful if you have it for the bonding effects, including creating a standard Simple or Martial melee weapon out of thin air with just the right weapon mastery for the situation, assuming your character has weapon mastery's, of course.
Even if the features could stack, they perform the same action, which is that they enable you to make two attacks when taking the attack action, it's an effect that can't stack as written anyway since Extra Attack specifies 2, rather than an additional attack.
If you are looking for another attack you can get one with your bonus action from using two different weapons. Better yet, if your last weapon you attack with has the nick property and you are trained with that weapon you can make the bonus attack as part of your action! The only catch is you cannot add your ability modifier… unless you take the two weapon fighting style, but as a warlock I would recommend something else since your main weapon should be your pact weapon to get your charisma ability modifier; since your strength/dexterity modifier will be much lower, you will want that to be for your “final” and bonus attacks.
Daggers are nick weapons, but I recommend starting with the scimitar at level 1 in your non-warlock class. Then once you become a warlock and have your pact weapon you can summon whatever weapon you want, but keep the scimitar. Once you get extra attack, make your pact weapon a rapier and train with it to get the vex weapon property. Attack first with your rapier so your scimitar attacks with advantage. As long as your scimitar hits, you can use your bonus attack.
One last thing: hex’s bonus damage works with each attack, including the bonus one! So, cast hex first with your bonus action!
If you have any other questions on the build let me know!
I’m still new at this, so the terms I used may not be correct. Heck, maybe even this strategy is faulty, but I’ve been asking around about it a lot since i heard about it from someone else.
Anton is saying you should swap out or avoid Thirsting Blade if you get Extra Attack elsewhere, not Pact of the Blade.
This is also correct. Saying "You get two" multiple times still means you end up with two.
Actually, the Extra Attack rules in the Multiclass section specifically mention Thirsting Blade:
Just to add, the Combining Game Effects rule from the 2014 DMG isn't in the 2024 DMG, which seems a bit odd to me :(