I don't know if this is a problem in other groups, but in my group they use a lot of outside knowledge while "roleplaying." Our party had just defeated an ice elemental in the Far North and since my character had an extremely high perception bonus, I told the DM that I would look around the corpse looking for loot. What I did find was a huge 2,000 gp sapphire. I decided to keep my discovery secret from the rest of the party, so I roll for stealth. I roll a nat 20 and beat everyone else's perception rolls. Then our half-orc barbarian decided to roll to remember what happened to the glowy thing that fell out of the elementals check. I convince him that it was destroyed. Another party member asks the same question. I also convince them. Then comes the next player who decides to remember. He beats my check and I cast the message cantrip to tell him that we would split the sapphire among us, but turns out, he is a Lawful Good Paladin, and I'm a true Neutral Bard. He tells the rest of the group and I run away. Outside knowledge can be useful, but it usually takes away from the roleplaying aspect.
As a DM, I wouldn't have let them make the checks after your stealth roll. However, that is because I generally prefer to not have players rolling against each other.
Alos, how I DM isn't the way every DM runs a game. We all have our own flair.
If this really annoys you, you should speak with your DM.
The issue occurring here sounds as though it is not actually that the other players are using "out of character knowledge" but that the group has not come to an agreement about a particular play-style choice: that choice being whether it is or is not allowed to have a character in the group that is not operating 100% as a team player.
It looks like you want for your character to be able to be a person that would hide significant wealth from their party-mates, and that the rest of your group doesn't want you to play that way, and you are all trying to use the game mechanics to reach your own desired outcome for what should be a part of your group's social agreement.
Certain metagaming is just part and parcel of the game. We all know you stuff a torch into the troll's face to keep it from regenerating. We attack skeletons with bludgeoning weapons and drink our potions of cold resistance when facing down the white dragon.
Other metagaming, however, can hurt a game. Everyone punching the character who may or may not be charmed comes to mind.
I recently had a situation with a player who was in another section of a grand room when a fight broke out with the BBEG. The main room with the villain was cordoned off by floor to ceiling drapes. When combat initiated, her character took a double move, but was still about 20 feet short of the main room. One of the warlocks dropped a darkness spell, knowing that he and the other warlock had devil's sight. When the player's turn came about, I told her she was plunging through the drapes and into darkness unless she could make an Athletics check versus a DC of 12. Despite a +6, she failed the roll. She then proceeded to tell me that she didn't care what her roll was, she knew AS A PLAYER, that the darkness was cast. Needless to say, she plunged into the darkness, failed a Perception check with disadvantage and landed prone after hitting a dais.
Although your stealing from the party might break what others might conceive as fair gamesmanship, it seems very bardish/roguish. Especially if you have a flaw where being greedy and/or dishonest is a roleplaying asset. I'd be more disappointed as a DM if you ignored that characteristic, then the occasional pilfering.
I understand your party members' frustrations and why they did what they did. You're depriving them of a significant chunk of the treasure that they worked hard to gain by defeating the enemy. If you didn't clear it with them ahead of time that you wanted to play that kind of character, it's pretty reasonable for them to be pissed about it, and they're expressing their annoyance with your behavior through the the game mechanics, probably because they feel like they can't confront you directly about it.
Personally, I think players who steal/hide significant treasure from their party members are disruptive and tend to erode the sense of trust and teamwork in the party, and I discourage that behavior when I'm a DM. If you want to play a selfish and greedy character in that way, you really need to make sure the rest of your party is on board before you do it. Otherwise you're just going to breed resentment, like what's happening in this situation.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
This particular use of game mechanics was wrong. The whole table suddenly "trying to remember" is wrong. I understand the reasoning but if a character doesn't know something, the character doesn't know.
I would have established your greedy tendency earlier in less valuable situations. "Ooh I want that shiny thing." "It's not worth anything." "I still want it."
Next time lie to the Paladin. "I'm keeping it safe." "We'll sell and split it later." "Somebody has to hold it."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
In response to Saqari metagaming post, I feel that as a DM you can clearly overrule on their use of the character. If they are directing their character to do an action that they should have no knowledge about you can flat out ask them, why they are doing that, if they can't explain their actions in a way that makes sense in the context of their character then don't let them do that action.
Example: You've just defeated a Flameskull, and your player immediately goes and pours holy water on it. How would they know to do this? Have they encountered it before? They should at least have to roll history or arcana or something with a pretty high check, otherwise the DM should intervene and tell them no.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I don't know if this is a problem in other groups, but in my group they use a lot of outside knowledge while "roleplaying." Our party had just defeated an ice elemental in the Far North and since my character had an extremely high perception bonus, I told the DM that I would look around the corpse looking for loot. What I did find was a huge 2,000 gp sapphire. I decided to keep my discovery secret from the rest of the party, so I roll for stealth. I roll a nat 20 and beat everyone else's perception rolls. Then our half-orc barbarian decided to roll to remember what happened to the glowy thing that fell out of the elementals check. I convince him that it was destroyed. Another party member asks the same question. I also convince them. Then comes the next player who decides to remember. He beats my check and I cast the message cantrip to tell him that we would split the sapphire among us, but turns out, he is a Lawful Good Paladin, and I'm a true Neutral Bard. He tells the rest of the group and I run away. Outside knowledge can be useful, but it usually takes away from the roleplaying aspect.
it's been a long time...
As a DM, I wouldn't have let them make the checks after your stealth roll. However, that is because I generally prefer to not have players rolling against each other.
Alos, how I DM isn't the way every DM runs a game. We all have our own flair.
If this really annoys you, you should speak with your DM.
The issue occurring here sounds as though it is not actually that the other players are using "out of character knowledge" but that the group has not come to an agreement about a particular play-style choice: that choice being whether it is or is not allowed to have a character in the group that is not operating 100% as a team player.
It looks like you want for your character to be able to be a person that would hide significant wealth from their party-mates, and that the rest of your group doesn't want you to play that way, and you are all trying to use the game mechanics to reach your own desired outcome for what should be a part of your group's social agreement.
Them each wanting a roll is some meta-gaming malarky, and I understand your commiseration.
Certain metagaming is just part and parcel of the game. We all know you stuff a torch into the troll's face to keep it from regenerating. We attack skeletons with bludgeoning weapons and drink our potions of cold resistance when facing down the white dragon.
Other metagaming, however, can hurt a game. Everyone punching the character who may or may not be charmed comes to mind.
I recently had a situation with a player who was in another section of a grand room when a fight broke out with the BBEG. The main room with the villain was cordoned off by floor to ceiling drapes. When combat initiated, her character took a double move, but was still about 20 feet short of the main room. One of the warlocks dropped a darkness spell, knowing that he and the other warlock had devil's sight. When the player's turn came about, I told her she was plunging through the drapes and into darkness unless she could make an Athletics check versus a DC of 12. Despite a +6, she failed the roll. She then proceeded to tell me that she didn't care what her roll was, she knew AS A PLAYER, that the darkness was cast. Needless to say, she plunged into the darkness, failed a Perception check with disadvantage and landed prone after hitting a dais.
Although your stealing from the party might break what others might conceive as fair gamesmanship, it seems very bardish/roguish. Especially if you have a flaw where being greedy and/or dishonest is a roleplaying asset. I'd be more disappointed as a DM if you ignored that characteristic, then the occasional pilfering.
I understand your party members' frustrations and why they did what they did. You're depriving them of a significant chunk of the treasure that they worked hard to gain by defeating the enemy. If you didn't clear it with them ahead of time that you wanted to play that kind of character, it's pretty reasonable for them to be pissed about it, and they're expressing their annoyance with your behavior through the the game mechanics, probably because they feel like they can't confront you directly about it.
Personally, I think players who steal/hide significant treasure from their party members are disruptive and tend to erode the sense of trust and teamwork in the party, and I discourage that behavior when I'm a DM. If you want to play a selfish and greedy character in that way, you really need to make sure the rest of your party is on board before you do it. Otherwise you're just going to breed resentment, like what's happening in this situation.
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
This particular use of game mechanics was wrong. The whole table suddenly "trying to remember" is wrong. I understand the reasoning but if a character doesn't know something, the character doesn't know.
I would have established your greedy tendency earlier in less valuable situations. "Ooh I want that shiny thing." "It's not worth anything." "I still want it."
Next time lie to the Paladin. "I'm keeping it safe." "We'll sell and split it later." "Somebody has to hold it."
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
In response to Saqari metagaming post, I feel that as a DM you can clearly overrule on their use of the character. If they are directing their character to do an action that they should have no knowledge about you can flat out ask them, why they are doing that, if they can't explain their actions in a way that makes sense in the context of their character then don't let them do that action.
Example: You've just defeated a Flameskull, and your player immediately goes and pours holy water on it. How would they know to do this? Have they encountered it before? They should at least have to roll history or arcana or something with a pretty high check, otherwise the DM should intervene and tell them no.