I have seen far more player character deaths in Shadowrun than GURPS. Shadowrun is, after all, the game that brought us the Chunky Salsa Rule: if an attack would reduce your character to the consistency of chunky salsa, it's lethal regardless of what your hit point total is.
(a) that's not what the chunky salsa rule does (it's actually a rule about explosions in enclosed spaces), and (b) try playing GURPS with typical Shadowrun weapons, automatic weapons are hilariously lethal in GURPS. In any case, what this mostly demonstrates is that different tables play differently (I've killed plenty of characters in D&D, even in 5e; it's definitely harder to kill one PC without wiping most of the party than it was in prior editions, but PCs are by no means immortal).
That was the original chunky salsa effect. It's since been expanded to cover things like getting shot in the head with a Panther XXL Assault Cannon and other such effects where failing to dodge has automatically fatal results with no body/armor check to resist.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Shadowrun combat is not balanced at all, and intentionally so because the game doesn't use a character class system, it uses a point-buy system that gives players considerably more leeway when designing their character and also does not allow for a significant, linear progression in power the way character levels do.
Not going to disagree with that, but my point was about lethality, not balance, and my experience with Shadowrun wasn't exceptionally lethal (in most editions, it's pretty easy to hit someone hard enough that they'll decide to run away, but an actual kill shot is quite hard). If you want high lethality, go for AD&D or GURPS.
GURPS has so many features that people ask for in D&D. I guess they have never heard of or played GURPS.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
That was the original chunky salsa effect. It's since been expanded to cover things like getting shot in the head with a Panther XXL Assault Cannon and other such effects where failing to dodge has automatically fatal results with no body/armor check to resist.
Ah, it has an 'ignore obviously ridiculous results of the combat system' rule. Not a new concept, and usually indicates a combat system with low base lethality (equivalent in GURPS: okay, you get shot in the skull for 6d*4 (3) damage. Your DR 25 helmet and DR 2 skull stops 9 of that, so 75 points get through, which is multiplied by 4 because of the skull location, resulting in 300 points of injury. You're a badass tough guy with 20 hit points and that's 15x your hit points so... you instantly die. We won't bother to resolve the other 3 shots that hit).
Lethality plus long term characters (play always with the same all the adventures like a big campaign) is very fun, is the way we played Rolemaster as with its combat system and character progression the level by itself is not so determinant, and you always can go back and retreat if something is too hard then try something easier (another adventure) delaying that hard part for later.
For this some way of slower level and more linear power progression would be necessary in D&D. In PF2 DMG propposes the 'Level without proficiency' system, which opens a lot the range of affordable levels for encounters, up to a boss with +10 levels than the party.
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(a) that's not what the chunky salsa rule does (it's actually a rule about explosions in enclosed spaces), and (b) try playing GURPS with typical Shadowrun weapons, automatic weapons are hilariously lethal in GURPS. In any case, what this mostly demonstrates is that different tables play differently (I've killed plenty of characters in D&D, even in 5e; it's definitely harder to kill one PC without wiping most of the party than it was in prior editions, but PCs are by no means immortal).
That was the original chunky salsa effect. It's since been expanded to cover things like getting shot in the head with a Panther XXL Assault Cannon and other such effects where failing to dodge has automatically fatal results with no body/armor check to resist.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
GURPS has so many features that people ask for in D&D. I guess they have never heard of or played GURPS.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Ah, it has an 'ignore obviously ridiculous results of the combat system' rule. Not a new concept, and usually indicates a combat system with low base lethality (equivalent in GURPS: okay, you get shot in the skull for 6d*4 (3) damage. Your DR 25 helmet and DR 2 skull stops 9 of that, so 75 points get through, which is multiplied by 4 because of the skull location, resulting in 300 points of injury. You're a badass tough guy with 20 hit points and that's 15x your hit points so... you instantly die. We won't bother to resolve the other 3 shots that hit).
Lethality plus long term characters (play always with the same all the adventures like a big campaign) is very fun, is the way we played Rolemaster as with its combat system and character progression the level by itself is not so determinant, and you always can go back and retreat if something is too hard then try something easier (another adventure) delaying that hard part for later.
For this some way of slower level and more linear power progression would be necessary in D&D. In PF2 DMG propposes the 'Level without proficiency' system, which opens a lot the range of affordable levels for encounters, up to a boss with +10 levels than the party.