(Level 3) Circle of Mortality. Whoever thought that taking away Bonus Action 30 feet Spare the Dying and giving us 1d4 extra damage once per turn was a good idea needs to take a pay cut. What's the logic here? None. "Pull of Death" is awful compared to what we used to have.
(Level 3) Path to the Grave was super nerfed and given a consolation prize of being more useful for defense and only take a bonus action. Reverse it. Wth. Seriously, who is working on Cleric right now? The intern?
(Level 6) Sentinel at Death's Door. This is fine.... it's fine. Yeah it's ANOTHER NERF, but it's not entirely ruined or removed like the others. Maybe the intern had help with this one idk.
(Level 17) Divine Reaper. This is ok. It's kinda cool actually, and I like it more than Keeper of Souls. But if you have to wait until 17th Level for a feature it shouldn't be limited to once or twice per Short or Long rest. Again, maybe the intern had help with this one, but whoever was helping them hates Cleric.
This Subclass feels like a good example of why there are so many people who don't like the 2024 rules. The people designing it don't understand what people like about Grave Domain and they don't like fun.
(Level 3) Circle of Mortality. Whoever thought that taking away Bonus Action 30 feet Spare the Dying and giving us 1d4 extra damage once per turn was a good idea needs to take a pay cut. What's the logic here? None. "Pull of Death" is awful compared to what we used to have.
(Level 3) Path to the Grave was super nerfed and given a consolation prize of being more useful for defense and only take a bonus action. Reverse it. Wth. Seriously, who is working on Cleric right now? The intern?
(Level 6) Sentinel at Death's Door. This is fine.... it's fine. Yeah it's ANOTHER NERF, but it's not entirely ruined or removed like the others. Maybe the intern had help with this one idk.
(Level 17) Divine Reaper. This is ok. It's kinda cool actually, and I like it more than Keeper of Souls. But if you have to wait until 17th Level for a feature it shouldn't be limited to once or twice per Short or Long rest. Again, maybe the intern had help with this one, but whoever was helping them hates Cleric.
This Subclass feels like a good example of why there are so many people who don't like the 2024 rules. The people designing it don't understand what people like about Grave Domain and they don't like fun.
Spare the Dying is already a ranged spell in 2024 so the only thing it lost was the bonus action and that was replaced with damage buff. I don't think that is terrible.
We lost Eyes of the Grave, but that one was mostly a ribbon anyway so I don't think I will miss it. I can just cast Detect Evil and Good instead since it does the same thing but better.
Path to the Grave gives disadvantage to ALL saves for a round. That is pretty good in my opinion, especially at the level it is gained, sure it won't be as good as creatures get crazy good save bonuses, but it still not that bad. 1d8+ Cleric Level isn't great but I ain't mad about the overall changes here.
Sentinel at Death's Door isn't bad either. Instead of being useful only on Critical Hits, you can half any attack's damage, assuming the Target is Bloodied. I think this is more useful because you can still use it on a Critical for the same effect.
Both lock subclasses got nerfed(form of dread lost its bonus 1d10 damage once per turn). About the only thing i like about the hexblade is it gets steel wind strike. Which honestly I think warlocks should have access to anyways. But its a cool spell that fits gish casters which warlocks fit fairly well without a sub class.
. Similarly I wish they would remove hunger of hadar form shadow sorcerer. Warlocks have like 4 unique spells if you keep handing them out to other classes even if only a sub class it kind of sucks for their uniqueness. Its not even that good of a spell, but when you have so few unique spells let them stay unique.
Both lock subclasses got nerfed(form of dread lost its bonus 1d10 damage once per turn). About the only thing i like about the hexblade is it gets steel wind strike. Which honestly I think warlocks should have access to anyways. But its a cool spell that fits gish casters which warlocks fit fairly well without a sub class.
. Similarly I wish they would remove hunger of hadar form shadow sorcerer. Warlocks have like 4 unique spells if you keep handing them out to other classes even if only a sub class it kind of sucks for their uniqueness. Its not even that good of a spell, but when you have so few unique spells let them stay unique.
Yeah the Nerf to Undead Warlock's Grave Touched feature just kills its synergy with Pact of the Blade playstyles. There goes my Great Axe wielding Warlock for no reason at all.
Both lock subclasses got nerfed(form of dread lost its bonus 1d10 damage once per turn). About the only thing i like about the hexblade is it gets steel wind strike. Which honestly I think warlocks should have access to anyways. But its a cool spell that fits gish casters which warlocks fit fairly well without a sub class.
. Similarly I wish they would remove hunger of hadar form shadow sorcerer. Warlocks have like 4 unique spells if you keep handing them out to other classes even if only a sub class it kind of sucks for their uniqueness. Its not even that good of a spell, but when you have so few unique spells let them stay unique.
I am not happy about the loss of the extra damage from Grave Touched either.
I like that you now ignore Necrotic Resistance, even though that isn't a huge buff, but I think it is thematic. Being immune to Exhaustion is also nice, also not a huge buff but on brand. (well, not immune, but still)
Superior Dread isn't super exciting, but I prefer it over Spirit Projection.
Overall I think if they put the damage buff back in to Grave Touched and maybe increase it a little at 14th level I would be happy enough with this version.
The new Hexblade has some OP synergy. At level 3, you get Stymying Mark, which triggers on your Hex target 1/turn when you hit with an attack roll. Stymying Mark auto gives a target Disadvantage on their next save before the start of your next turn.
This is a spammable Disadvantage on saves because it has no resource cost other than you Hexing a target, and even then you get Cha mod uses for free of Hex. If you have anyone else in your party with any kind of CC save, the target now has Disadvantage on that. Hold Person? Banishment? Slow? Sleep? Topple? Monk Stunning Strike? Yes.
By level 7, you get Staggering Smite as an always prepared warlock spell. Take Pact of the Blade and Thirsting Blade as invocations for 2 attacks a round. It takes 1 round of setup, but by round 2 you can attack twice and if you hit your Hex target at least once, you can Bonus Action Staggering Smite for 4d6 Psychic and force a Disadvantage Wisdom save or they're Stunned until the end of your next turn.
Toss in the new Grave Cleric and they can Bonus Action channel divinity to just auto give someone Disadvantage on attack rolls and saves until the start of their next turn.
Having both of these subclasses in your party means you can all but spam Disadvantage on saves.
As has been pointed out in the other thread, they've sort of subtracted the BLADE out of Hexblade. As it stands now, it's like a half gish?
This feels like a well-intentioned but strongly mistaken attempt at "fixing" and redirecting the subclass when it needed neither of those things. Especially since the 2024 version of warlock deals with a lot of the single level dips people made in the 2014 rules.
My point being that given the actual weapon support is now a core class feature, there doesn’t seem to be enough to build a coherent weapon-focused subclass. It’d be better to just focus on hexing in some form and just ditch trying to shoehorn blade associations in.
Agreed. I was trying to say something along those lines in my previous post. This should've been called something else (Hexslinger? Hexwielder? I dunno) since it's just not an equivalent to the original subclass.
I haven't played around with this UA but I'm thinking that using this, you can actually build a fairly good facsimile of the original sub with 2024 rules, with some minor differences. I still think it's a design problem that if a warlock wishes to use a shield, they have to burn a feat to gain armor training they already have. This is because only light armor training grants shield training bundled; neither Moderately Armored nor Heavily Armored do so. And since they build on each (you can't take the Moderately Armored feat without being trained in Light Armor), you have to take Light Armor to gain shield training if you want it.
Both lock subclasses got nerfed(form of dread lost its bonus 1d10 damage once per turn). About the only thing i like about the hexblade is it gets steel wind strike. Which honestly I think warlocks should have access to anyways. But its a cool spell that fits gish casters which warlocks fit fairly well without a sub class.
. Similarly I wish they would remove hunger of hadar form shadow sorcerer. Warlocks have like 4 unique spells if you keep handing them out to other classes even if only a sub class it kind of sucks for their uniqueness. Its not even that good of a spell, but when you have so few unique spells let them stay unique.
I am not happy about the loss of the extra damage from Grave Touched either.
I like that you now ignore Necrotic Resistance, even though that isn't a huge buff, but I think it is thematic. Being immune to Exhaustion is also nice, also not a huge buff but on brand. (well, not immune, but still)
Superior Dread isn't super exciting, but I prefer it over Spirit Projection.
Overall I think if they put the damage buff back in to Grave Touched and maybe increase it a little at 14th level I would be happy enough with this version.
The resistance comes in at 10 the immunity while in dread is kind of cool, but unless the campaign is around it I just don't see it coming into play enough to matter to be a real buff. And that is fine if you prefer superior dread, I preferred spirit projection. It added a lot of cool utility imo. I think the loss of 1d10 which you will see almost every combat round is a bigger loss than the small gains.
My guess is that they really wanted to address the issue that hexblade was rarely played as a proper subclass and was instead mainly a very powerful multiclassing dip. However, I think moving the first subclass features to level 3 mostly did that already.
The problem there (IMO) is that by not granting proficiency in Medium Armor and Shields, that they have forced the Hexblade into being a multiclass option. At least if people take the name seriously and don't use the subclass features with Eldritch Blast, because that seems to be an option as written.
Hexblade absolutely should come with training in medium armor and shields. A hexlock shouldn't have to burn a feat to gain that.
Two feats. Shield proficiency is part of Light Armor Proficiency, not Medium. Unless the errata did the right thing by including shield with ALL armor proficiency.
I mean, over 20 AC at level 3? (Medium armor (16)+ Shield+(2) Wisdom Modifier (At least a +2 Modifier) > 20) Plus, you basically can't break your concentration on it, thanks to the level 7 feature and the fact that enemies within 10 feet of you have a chance of not getting an action/bonus action on their turn! The higher level features aren't too bad, but...
I guess they realized making HM the main class feature of Ranger wasn't exactly a draw so they buffed it absurdly.
I mean, over 20 AC at level 3? (Medium armor (16)+ Shield+(2) Wisdom Modifier (At least a +2 Modifier) > 20) Plus, you basically can't break your concentration on it, thanks to the level 7 feature and the fact that enemies within 10 feet of you have a chance of not getting an action/bonus action on their turn! The higher level features aren't too bad, but...
I guess they realized making HM the main class feature of Ranger wasn't exactly a draw so they buffed it absurdly.
I saw this and then read the subclass. wow. It's like they decided that abilities should be dependent on using hunter's mark, and then made the abilities absolutely broken in the hopes that people wouldn't complain.
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Grave Cleric.... Wth man.
This Subclass feels like a good example of why there are so many people who don't like the 2024 rules. The people designing it don't understand what people like about Grave Domain and they don't like fun.
So... who is the person that decided that removing the most iconic feature from Shadow Sorcerer was a good idea?
Did they think that this was a Necromancy Sorcerer? Do they hate dogs? Do they think the old Strength of the Grave is overpowered?
Who are they and why do they hate Fun?
Spare the Dying is already a ranged spell in 2024 so the only thing it lost was the bonus action and that was replaced with damage buff. I don't think that is terrible.
We lost Eyes of the Grave, but that one was mostly a ribbon anyway so I don't think I will miss it. I can just cast Detect Evil and Good instead since it does the same thing but better.
Path to the Grave gives disadvantage to ALL saves for a round. That is pretty good in my opinion, especially at the level it is gained, sure it won't be as good as creatures get crazy good save bonuses, but it still not that bad. 1d8+ Cleric Level isn't great but I ain't mad about the overall changes here.
Sentinel at Death's Door isn't bad either. Instead of being useful only on Critical Hits, you can half any attack's damage, assuming the Target is Bloodied. I think this is more useful because you can still use it on a Critical for the same effect.
Divine Reaper is pretty cool as you said.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Both lock subclasses got nerfed(form of dread lost its bonus 1d10 damage once per turn). About the only thing i like about the hexblade is it gets steel wind strike. Which honestly I think warlocks should have access to anyways. But its a cool spell that fits gish casters which warlocks fit fairly well without a sub class.
. Similarly I wish they would remove hunger of hadar form shadow sorcerer. Warlocks have like 4 unique spells if you keep handing them out to other classes even if only a sub class it kind of sucks for their uniqueness. Its not even that good of a spell, but when you have so few unique spells let them stay unique.
Yeah the Nerf to Undead Warlock's Grave Touched feature just kills its synergy with Pact of the Blade playstyles. There goes my Great Axe wielding Warlock for no reason at all.
I am not happy about the loss of the extra damage from Grave Touched either.
I like that you now ignore Necrotic Resistance, even though that isn't a huge buff, but I think it is thematic. Being immune to Exhaustion is also nice, also not a huge buff but on brand. (well, not immune, but still)
Superior Dread isn't super exciting, but I prefer it over Spirit Projection.
Overall I think if they put the damage buff back in to Grave Touched and maybe increase it a little at 14th level I would be happy enough with this version.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
The new Hexblade has some OP synergy. At level 3, you get Stymying Mark, which triggers on your Hex target 1/turn when you hit with an attack roll. Stymying Mark auto gives a target Disadvantage on their next save before the start of your next turn.
This is a spammable Disadvantage on saves because it has no resource cost other than you Hexing a target, and even then you get Cha mod uses for free of Hex. If you have anyone else in your party with any kind of CC save, the target now has Disadvantage on that. Hold Person? Banishment? Slow? Sleep? Topple? Monk Stunning Strike? Yes.
By level 7, you get Staggering Smite as an always prepared warlock spell. Take Pact of the Blade and Thirsting Blade as invocations for 2 attacks a round. It takes 1 round of setup, but by round 2 you can attack twice and if you hit your Hex target at least once, you can Bonus Action Staggering Smite for 4d6 Psychic and force a Disadvantage Wisdom save or they're Stunned until the end of your next turn.
Toss in the new Grave Cleric and they can Bonus Action channel divinity to just auto give someone Disadvantage on attack rolls and saves until the start of their next turn.
Having both of these subclasses in your party means you can all but spam Disadvantage on saves.
Grave Domain Spells
I like the changes for the most part, but did anyone else notice the error here?
5th level Dispel Evil and Good as a 4th level domain spell? Just a little bit of an oversight there.
Hexblade absolutely should come with training in medium armor and shields. A hexlock shouldn't have to burn a feat to gain that.
Even though it has little to no other support for a gish build?
As has been pointed out in the other thread, they've sort of subtracted the BLADE out of Hexblade. As it stands now, it's like a half gish?
This feels like a well-intentioned but strongly mistaken attempt at "fixing" and redirecting the subclass when it needed neither of those things. Especially since the 2024 version of warlock deals with a lot of the single level dips people made in the 2014 rules.
My point being that given the actual weapon support is now a core class feature, there doesn’t seem to be enough to build a coherent weapon-focused subclass. It’d be better to just focus on hexing in some form and just ditch trying to shoehorn blade associations in.
Agreed. I was trying to say something along those lines in my previous post. This should've been called something else (Hexslinger? Hexwielder? I dunno) since it's just not an equivalent to the original subclass.
I haven't played around with this UA but I'm thinking that using this, you can actually build a fairly good facsimile of the original sub with 2024 rules, with some minor differences. I still think it's a design problem that if a warlock wishes to use a shield, they have to burn a feat to gain armor training they already have. This is because only light armor training grants shield training bundled; neither Moderately Armored nor Heavily Armored do so. And since they build on each (you can't take the Moderately Armored feat without being trained in Light Armor), you have to take Light Armor to gain shield training if you want it.
The resistance comes in at 10 the immunity while in dread is kind of cool, but unless the campaign is around it I just don't see it coming into play enough to matter to be a real buff. And that is fine if you prefer superior dread, I preferred spirit projection. It added a lot of cool utility imo. I think the loss of 1d10 which you will see almost every combat round is a bigger loss than the small gains.
Agreed.
Really stinks that it's not implemented into the character builder. I'll be using the homebrew feature to try out at least one of them smoothly.
The problem there (IMO) is that by not granting proficiency in Medium Armor and Shields, that they have forced the Hexblade into being a multiclass option. At least if people take the name seriously and don't use the subclass features with Eldritch Blast, because that seems to be an option as written.
Two feats. Shield proficiency is part of Light Armor Proficiency, not Medium. Unless the errata did the right thing by including shield with ALL armor proficiency.
Hollow Warden... is absolutely OP!
I mean, over 20 AC at level 3? (Medium armor (16)+ Shield+(2) Wisdom Modifier (At least a +2 Modifier) > 20) Plus, you basically can't break your concentration on it, thanks to the level 7 feature and the fact that enemies within 10 feet of you have a chance of not getting an action/bonus action on their turn! The higher level features aren't too bad, but...
I guess they realized making HM the main class feature of Ranger wasn't exactly a draw so they buffed it absurdly.
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I saw this and then read the subclass. wow. It's like they decided that abilities should be dependent on using hunter's mark, and then made the abilities absolutely broken in the hopes that people wouldn't complain.