I do not have experience with the class in game, but I did buy it out of curiosity. Giving it a look over, I think Mercer’s Fighter Subclass better design. Like a lot of third party content, I think there are some balance issues resultant from a “throw it all at the wall and don’t really edit to ensure consistency with official content” approach.
I particularly hate the High Roller subclass, which has a metagame-level bluffing component with the DM that I think is problematic from a game design stance (a meta mini-game influencing the game itself), likely slows down gameplay unnecessarily, and could lead to problematic DM-player encounters with some types of player.
I would be curious to see what others might think, but, I would be disinclined to allow access to this particular third party content and would instead steer folks toward Fighter-Gunslinger if that is what they wanted to play.
Not a fan of the Liar's Dice feature, I have to be honest. It's an interesting thing to have as say a flavour minigame within the story. like you go to a saloon and it's a game you can play with NPCs or the other players. But as a feature? Nah. It would slow things down way too much, and you basically negate the consequences of any low roll. In a large group (so you're rarely rolling anyway), it's ridiculously OP.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Did this class, the Gunslinger, come from Stephen King's 'Dark Tower' series?
I am NOT in favor of including firearms in the options available to the players. It does not matter if these things are initially restricted to NPCs, if an NPC has a unique item, eventually that unique item will wind up in a player character's hands. While the 2024 PHB shows what appears to be a muzzle loading flintlock musket and pistol, in a short matter of time, some maniacal cleric of Gond (Forgotten Realms deity that delights in creating mechanical gadgets) will improve the design by replacing the flint with a percussion cap, then by introducing the 'pepperbox' (a multi-barrel pistol capable of multiple shots before reloading), then by improving the design to a traditional revolver, then to a semi-automatic pistol (Luger Parabellum, M1911A1 etc.) and the game turns into either a James Bond frolic or a Maxwell Smart farce.
How does liar's dice work? (for anybody who doesn't want to drop 15 dollars on a random class, including me)
Essentially, you can hide your d20 roll, and say it's different to what it actually is. If the DM accepts your claim, you keep what you claim you rolled. If the DM challenges you, then you roll again and accept the worst roll (so basically, you'll have rolled at Disadvantage. If the DM challenges you but you were telling the truth, you get an even better roll.
So, if you roll a 1, you should always do it because at worst...you'll get a 1 anyway. Similarly low rolls are also no brainers because you'll likely just end up with the same result of challenged but you could improve the roll if not challenged.
Similarly, if you get a high roll, you should hide the roll and just tell the truth. If challenged, you could turn your nat19 into a nat20.
It's very flavourful, in a way, but it would drag things out a lot and just lead to frustration.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
How does liar's dice work? (for anybody who doesn't want to drop 15 dollars on a random class, including me)
Essentially, you can hide your d20 roll, and say it's different to what it actually is. If the DM accepts your claim, you keep what you claim you rolled. If the DM challenges you, then you roll again and accept the worst roll (so basically, you'll have rolled at Disadvantage. If the DM challenges you but you were telling the truth, you get an even better roll.
So, if you roll a 1, you should always do it because at worst...you'll get a 1 anyway. Similarly low rolls are also no brainers because you'll likely just end up with the same result of challenged but you could improve the roll if not challenged.
Similarly, if you get a high roll, you should hide the roll and just tell the truth. If challenged, you could turn your nat19 into a nat20.
It's very flavourful, in a way, but it would drag things out a lot and just lead to frustration.
I have no idea how that could make any sense lore-wise. Are you basically trying to cheat god?
It doesn't try to justify itself lore-wise. It's a metagame that brings the flavour of gambling to the player (which is what the subclass is about) - think of that gambling game on Davy Jones' ship in the second PotC film.
It's one of the reasons I don't like it - it's taking up time at the table that inherently boots the other players from the play-space. At least there's value in players listening in on your turn during combat, even if they don't get to act. With this... it's a semi-amusing mini game that they can't participate in, influence or even tell it happened once it's over.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I am a little sad that one of the three New Feats "Iron Hero", is a Feat that was already released in the other Valda's book. Other than that the class looks fun, excited to try it. My DM already said I can swap over, since I was playing the Gunslinger Fighter.
Though as for the topic of the High Roller's Liar's Dice feature. Its only the Risk Die that is hidden, NOT the attack roll. And as someone who has played a different TTRPG that has a similar style of subclass you would be surprised by how little it actually sidetracks combat, slows things down or boot anyone from the play-space.
Its really no different then asking the DM to make a saving throw when you use a Combat Maneuver or Cast a Spell. Just instead of saying "Make a Save: you are saying "Do you call my bluff?".
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"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
Though as for the topic of the High Roller's Liar's Dice feature. Its only the Risk Die that is hidden, NOT the attack roll. And as someone who has played a different TTRPG that has a similar style of subclass you would be surprised by how little it actually sidetracks combat, slows things down or boot anyone from the play-space.
Its really no different then asking the DM to make a saving throw when you use a Combat Maneuver or Cast a Spell. Just instead of saying "Make a Save: you are saying "Do you call my bluff?".
So, if I’m understanding this correctly, then it opens up a whole different problem. This isn’t about challenging a character or a monster, this is about a player challenging another player (who happens to be the DM). So if the person running the PC is a good or bad liar, or the DM happens to be extra gullible, that’s going to be what impacts how well the power works much more than anything else. Certainly there’s games where that kind of thing makes sense and could be really fun, but it doesn’t seem like a fit for D&D.
Please don’t take this as me attacking you. I’m not responding to you like this because I think you are responsible for inventing the mechanic, or because I think you need to answer for it. It’s more just quoting to give the appropriate context.
Though as for the topic of the High Roller's Liar's Dice feature. Its only the Risk Die that is hidden, NOT the attack roll. And as someone who has played a different TTRPG that has a similar style of subclass you would be surprised by how little it actually sidetracks combat, slows things down or boot anyone from the play-space.
Its really no different then asking the DM to make a saving throw when you use a Combat Maneuver or Cast a Spell. Just instead of saying "Make a Save: you are saying "Do you call my bluff?".
So, if I’m understanding this correctly, then it opens up a whole different problem. This isn’t about challenging a character or a monster, this is about a player challenging another player (who happens to be the DM). So if the person running the PC is a good or bad liar, or the DM happens to be extra gullible, that’s going to be what impacts how well the power works much more than anything else. Certainly there’s games where that kind of thing makes sense and could be really fun, but it doesn’t seem like a fit for D&D.
Please don’t take this as me attacking you. I’m not responding to you like this because I think you are responsible for inventing the mechanic, or because I think you need to answer for it. It’s more just quoting to give the appropriate context.
Oh you're fine, don't worry. Honestly I just view at as another one of those "If X condition is met do this instead" abilities. Cause the die being effected is d8, that doesn't look like it scales in size ever. Its a unique risk reward. Either you get lucky and between 2 - 16 damage, you get unlucky and deal 1 - 4 damage, or you even out at whatever number you said which is gonna be 1 - 8 damage. Either way you are squeezing out a little extra damage.
I will agree, its not going to be something everyone is going to like. I think it would be better received if it wasn't just some random ability that stands out from other abilities. If it was a Full Class with similar effects, instead of just a subclass. It'd probably be better received. I know from the class I have experienced, the whole class had cool little effects and abilities like this. Once you got used to it after a couple times, it was more of a "Ah ha!" and it gives the DM a new way interact with the player, maybe even come up with cool unique items or fight mechanics.
That's just me though
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"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
Essentially, you can hide your d20 roll, and say it's different to what it actually is. If the DM accepts your claim, you keep what you claim you rolled. If the DM challenges you, then you roll again and accept the worst roll (so basically, you'll have rolled at Disadvantage. If the DM challenges you but you were telling the truth, you get an even better roll.
So, if you roll a 1, you should always do it because at worst...you'll get a 1 anyway. Similarly low rolls are also no brainers because you'll likely just end up with the same result of challenged but you could improve the roll if not challenged.
Similarly, if you get a high roll, you should hide the roll and just tell the truth. If challenged, you could turn your nat19 into a nat20.
It's very flavourful, in a way, but it would drag things out a lot and just lead to frustration.
Oh my Bulb that's awful. My opinion of Valda's was already low, but... damn
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Though as for the topic of the High Roller's Liar's Dice feature. Its only the Risk Die that is hidden, NOT the attack roll. And as someone who has played a different TTRPG that has a similar style of subclass you would be surprised by how little it actually sidetracks combat, slows things down or boot anyone from the play-space.
Having now read the subclass, it's neither the attack roll NOR the Risk Die that's hidden; it's the entire damage roll
I still hate it, but slightly less than I did when it was the attack roll
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
We will see. Prefer the classic settings over this type of class. Remember the original classes and races and guess I was just broke in with 1e so prefer it over some of these modern additions.
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Does anyone have any experience or knowledge on the Gunslinger Class that was added to D&D Beyond?
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
I do not have experience with the class in game, but I did buy it out of curiosity. Giving it a look over, I think Mercer’s Fighter Subclass better design. Like a lot of third party content, I think there are some balance issues resultant from a “throw it all at the wall and don’t really edit to ensure consistency with official content” approach.
I particularly hate the High Roller subclass, which has a metagame-level bluffing component with the DM that I think is problematic from a game design stance (a meta mini-game influencing the game itself), likely slows down gameplay unnecessarily, and could lead to problematic DM-player encounters with some types of player.
I would be curious to see what others might think, but, I would be disinclined to allow access to this particular third party content and would instead steer folks toward Fighter-Gunslinger if that is what they wanted to play.
Not a fan of the Liar's Dice feature, I have to be honest. It's an interesting thing to have as say a flavour minigame within the story. like you go to a saloon and it's a game you can play with NPCs or the other players. But as a feature? Nah. It would slow things down way too much, and you basically negate the consequences of any low roll. In a large group (so you're rarely rolling anyway), it's ridiculously OP.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
The actual class is solid.
I can make Woody & James Pond with at least 2 of the subclasses.
But the Liar's Dice thing is EASILY found out via Maps & The game log on here, so it's not the most Beyond-friendly subclass.
(Here's hoping we get Witch at some point, because this gets my hopes up for more & more Valda's dripfeed)
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Is the Liar's Dice only for the one (bannable-by-GM)subclass, or does it affect two or more?
Because a lot of the other subclasses look interesting, especially Spellslinger and DeadEye?
How does liar's dice work? (for anybody who doesn't want to drop 15 dollars on a random class, including me)
It's one subclass.
Basically, if you want to once per turn, you can try & BS your declared attackroll via a Risk Dice(The central mechanic of Gunslinger)
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Did this class, the Gunslinger, come from Stephen King's 'Dark Tower' series?
I am NOT in favor of including firearms in the options available to the players. It does not matter if these things are initially restricted to NPCs, if an NPC has a unique item, eventually that unique item will wind up in a player character's hands. While the 2024 PHB shows what appears to be a muzzle loading flintlock musket and pistol, in a short matter of time, some maniacal cleric of Gond (Forgotten Realms deity that delights in creating mechanical gadgets) will improve the design by replacing the flint with a percussion cap, then by introducing the 'pepperbox' (a multi-barrel pistol capable of multiple shots before reloading), then by improving the design to a traditional revolver, then to a semi-automatic pistol (Luger Parabellum, M1911A1 etc.) and the game turns into either a James Bond frolic or a Maxwell Smart farce.
It's one subclass.
Essentially, you can hide your d20 roll, and say it's different to what it actually is. If the DM accepts your claim, you keep what you claim you rolled. If the DM challenges you, then you roll again and accept the worst roll (so basically, you'll have rolled at Disadvantage. If the DM challenges you but you were telling the truth, you get an even better roll.
So, if you roll a 1, you should always do it because at worst...you'll get a 1 anyway. Similarly low rolls are also no brainers because you'll likely just end up with the same result of challenged but you could improve the roll if not challenged.
Similarly, if you get a high roll, you should hide the roll and just tell the truth. If challenged, you could turn your nat19 into a nat20.
It's very flavourful, in a way, but it would drag things out a lot and just lead to frustration.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I have no idea how that could make any sense lore-wise. Are you basically trying to cheat god?
It doesn't try to justify itself lore-wise. It's a metagame that brings the flavour of gambling to the player (which is what the subclass is about) - think of that gambling game on Davy Jones' ship in the second PotC film.
It's one of the reasons I don't like it - it's taking up time at the table that inherently boots the other players from the play-space. At least there's value in players listening in on your turn during combat, even if they don't get to act. With this... it's a semi-amusing mini game that they can't participate in, influence or even tell it happened once it's over.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I am a little sad that one of the three New Feats "Iron Hero", is a Feat that was already released in the other Valda's book. Other than that the class looks fun, excited to try it. My DM already said I can swap over, since I was playing the Gunslinger Fighter.
Though as for the topic of the High Roller's Liar's Dice feature. Its only the Risk Die that is hidden, NOT the attack roll. And as someone who has played a different TTRPG that has a similar style of subclass you would be surprised by how little it actually sidetracks combat, slows things down or boot anyone from the play-space.
Its really no different then asking the DM to make a saving throw when you use a Combat Maneuver or Cast a Spell. Just instead of saying "Make a Save: you are saying "Do you call my bluff?".
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
So, if I’m understanding this correctly, then it opens up a whole different problem. This isn’t about challenging a character or a monster, this is about a player challenging another player (who happens to be the DM). So if the person running the PC is a good or bad liar, or the DM happens to be extra gullible, that’s going to be what impacts how well the power works much more than anything else. Certainly there’s games where that kind of thing makes sense and could be really fun, but it doesn’t seem like a fit for D&D.
Please don’t take this as me attacking you. I’m not responding to you like this because I think you are responsible for inventing the mechanic, or because I think you need to answer for it. It’s more just quoting to give the appropriate context.
Oh you're fine, don't worry. Honestly I just view at as another one of those "If X condition is met do this instead" abilities. Cause the die being effected is d8, that doesn't look like it scales in size ever. Its a unique risk reward. Either you get lucky and between 2 - 16 damage, you get unlucky and deal 1 - 4 damage, or you even out at whatever number you said which is gonna be 1 - 8 damage. Either way you are squeezing out a little extra damage.
I will agree, its not going to be something everyone is going to like. I think it would be better received if it wasn't just some random ability that stands out from other abilities. If it was a Full Class with similar effects, instead of just a subclass. It'd probably be better received. I know from the class I have experienced, the whole class had cool little effects and abilities like this. Once you got used to it after a couple times, it was more of a "Ah ha!" and it gives the DM a new way interact with the player, maybe even come up with cool unique items or fight mechanics.
That's just me though
"Not getting cut into bloody littles slices, That's the key to a sound plan."
Oh my Bulb that's awful. My opinion of Valda's was already low, but... damn
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Having now read the subclass, it's neither the attack roll NOR the Risk Die that's hidden; it's the entire damage roll
I still hate it, but slightly less than I did when it was the attack roll
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
We will see. Prefer the classic settings over this type of class. Remember the original classes and races and guess I was just broke in with 1e so prefer it over some of these modern additions.