There's a reason I tune out conspiracy talkers more & more with the tools I'm given.
Unless someone has ironclad proof about this being a rugpull w/pre-order money due to some grand muck-up(3, 2, 1...it's projected to be related to the Kalashtar ragebait, calling it now), it's safe to ignore it.
There's no need to have a "conspiracy". They literally pulled the rug out, within 18 hours of taking our money. Are you seriously believing that they make hard u-turns that quickly between "Yep, we're ready to go" and "Wait, stop everything and delay it!". They knew at least a week before the announcement and could easily have changed the release date before we hit the 1 month mark and they took real money.
Presenting speculation as fact, and then drawing conclusions based on that speculation is pretty much the definition of a conspiracy theory.
A conspiracy is a group of seemingly individuals or organizations conspiring to subvert something. A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that asserts the existence of a conspiracy when other explanations are more probable.
This is just a corporation being greedy. Literally the 'more probable' explanation. It's almost reaching "conspiracy theorist" levels to pretend that they don't know what they're doing and were blissfully innocent.
Guarantee they say "Take money when it ships" But in reality it is coded to take the money on a specific day, aka the day it would ship. If the left hand doesn't tell the monies department not to charge, guess what.... you get charged before they can change the information.
Actually waiting until the item really ships has been done by online vendors for decades. Having a system that can't actually tell whether the item's shipped before charging the customer is a sign of a poorly-run online business.
None of this is ill intention, but lots of times these are not "phone calls" and instead emails or tickets which certainly at large companies might not get answered in time to correct things already underway.
Also, personally, if I preorder something I'd rather that money already be out of my account. Not 3 months later and I have to be like "wait why is there a charge."
To each their own, but with a few exceptions like kickstarter I've very against a company taking my money before they're actually going to give me the item the payment is for. If they can't fulfill the order for three months, I shouldn't be paying them for the job they haven't actually done yet.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
There's a reason I tune out conspiracy talkers more & more with the tools I'm given.
Unless someone has ironclad proof about this being a rugpull w/pre-order money due to some grand muck-up(3, 2, 1...it's projected to be related to the Kalashtar ragebait, calling it now), it's safe to ignore it.
There's no need to have a "conspiracy". They literally pulled the rug out, within 18 hours of taking our money. Are you seriously believing that they make hard u-turns that quickly between "Yep, we're ready to go" and "Wait, stop everything and delay it!". They knew at least a week before the announcement and could easily have changed the release date before we hit the 1 month mark and they took real money.
Here is the other thing - your entire complaint about having ordered just a day ago is also a bit silly. There is never a good time to make this kind of announcement - if they had done it a week ago, maybe you would be spared, but someone who ordered eight days ago would be making the exact same complaint.
I didn't order "just a day ago". I ordered in May.
The Wizards of the Coast policy is to take the money for a pre-order when the product begins shipping. They took my money yesterday. Then announced today that they aren't shipping. This has nothing to do with my timing and everything to do with theirs.
The damage indicated is not a sudden overnight thing. They had the books weeks ago by their own account and over time, the warping began. It did not suddenly bend itself overnight. They intentionally chose to announce after taking money from preorders.
I understand the delay. But they should not be taking the money until they begin shipping... In November.
Is that their policy? Only they took my money back in May when I placed the preorder. Pretty certain they always take my money immediately
There's a reason I tune out conspiracy talkers more & more with the tools I'm given.
Unless someone has ironclad proof about this being a rugpull w/pre-order money due to some grand muck-up(3, 2, 1...it's projected to be related to the Kalashtar ragebait, calling it now), it's safe to ignore it.
There's no need to have a "conspiracy". They literally pulled the rug out, within 18 hours of taking our money. Are you seriously believing that they make hard u-turns that quickly between "Yep, we're ready to go" and "Wait, stop everything and delay it!". They knew at least a week before the announcement and could easily have changed the release date before we hit the 1 month mark and they took real money.
Here is the other thing - your entire complaint about having ordered just a day ago is also a bit silly. There is never a good time to make this kind of announcement - if they had done it a week ago, maybe you would be spared, but someone who ordered eight days ago would be making the exact same complaint.
I didn't order "just a day ago". I ordered in May.
The Wizards of the Coast policy is to take the money for a pre-order when the product begins shipping. They took my money yesterday. Then announced today that they aren't shipping. This has nothing to do with my timing and everything to do with theirs.
The damage indicated is not a sudden overnight thing. They had the books weeks ago by their own account and over time, the warping began. It did not suddenly bend itself overnight. They intentionally chose to announce after taking money from preorders.
I understand the delay. But they should not be taking the money until they begin shipping... In November.
Is that their policy? Only they took my money back in May when I placed the preorder. Pretty certain they always take my money immediately
Based on their behavior with the 24 books, they take the money for the digital immediately, and only charge for the physical when shipping happens.
However, the idea that they chose to take the money for the physical books right before canceling is likely getting it backwards. The canceling almost certainly happened because they were starting the shipping process, the first part of which is collecting the money for the preorders to generate the data they need to ship the books. (After all, some percentage of the preorders are going to fail due to card cancellations, lack of money, or just glitches in the CC system, and those people don't get sent books.) At that point, what likely happened was that the warehouse people started opening the crates of books, and discovered the problem. Then followed a rapid round of checking to see if it was widespread, some extremely heated conversations with the printers and insurance companies, and a decision to reprint.
Even if they were reversing the charges, that's a process that takes time. (No idea if they intend to. I expect not, but that's a matter of accounting regulations and their agreements with the CC processors.) It's only been like three days, and a weekend at that.
I play digital with my kids and others. Have no interest in filling my home with paper (from trees and shipped around the world) when there is an easy to navigate digital tool to use. Delaying delivery of the product that I ordered because a hard copy product I didnt order is delayed is bollocks in my opinion. I cant buy digital through local game stores, Im sympathetic to them but I dont see them as having anything to do with my digital experience. A LgS has nothing to do with my steam account, why my dndbeyond account?
I play digital with my kids and others. Have no interest in filling my home with paper (from trees and shipped around the world) when there is an easy to navigate digital tool to use. Delaying delivery of the product that I ordered because a hard copy product I didnt order is delayed is bollocks in my opinion. I cant buy digital through local game stores, Im sympathetic to them but I dont see them as having anything to do with my digital experience. A LgS has nothing to do with my steam account, why my dndbeyond account?
It is not particularly hard to figure out - it just requires a bit of common sense and empathy, all of which has been already explained on this thread. But, in case you missed it, let us spell this out again.
LGSes are an important part of the gaming industry - they are a common place for many to shop, often have events or other programs that onboard new players, and play a very important role in the sale not only of D&D, but pretty much every other nerdy game from billion dollar brands like Magic to small indie developers. Even beyond the stores, game are an important foundation of entire communities - you can walk into any game store any time and you’ll probably see groups od friends playing cards, tossing dice, or moving miniatures.
Game stores have a lot of struggles, particularly competition from places like Amazon and digital. To keep them alive, Wizards heavily subsidizes their activity - Magic is typically the bread and butter of most game stores and things like early release and specialty copies of D&D books give the game stores the first bite at the pie before they have to compete with Amazon and big box stores. Giving Digital that extra early release takes a lot of the wind out of that “first bite” that game stores rely upon, especially when it is a product that likely will be a major seller like this one.
As a digital player who loves Eberron, I am sad about the delay. As a human being, I cannot imagine myself ever having such a level of entitlement that I would want an entire industry and all those - both players and employees - who rely on it to suffer just because I am too impatient to wait a couple months.
There's a reason I tune out conspiracy talkers more & more with the tools I'm given.
Unless someone has ironclad proof about this being a rugpull w/pre-order money due to some grand muck-up(3, 2, 1...it's projected to be related to the Kalashtar ragebait, calling it now), it's safe to ignore it.
There's no need to have a "conspiracy". They literally pulled the rug out, within 18 hours of taking our money. Are you seriously believing that they make hard u-turns that quickly between "Yep, we're ready to go" and "Wait, stop everything and delay it!". They knew at least a week before the announcement and could easily have changed the release date before we hit the 1 month mark and they took real money.
Here is the other thing - your entire complaint about having ordered just a day ago is also a bit silly. There is never a good time to make this kind of announcement - if they had done it a week ago, maybe you would be spared, but someone who ordered eight days ago would be making the exact same complaint.
I didn't order "just a day ago". I ordered in May.
The Wizards of the Coast policy is to take the money for a pre-order when the product begins shipping. They took my money yesterday. Then announced today that they aren't shipping. This has nothing to do with my timing and everything to do with theirs.
The damage indicated is not a sudden overnight thing. They had the books weeks ago by their own account and over time, the warping began. It did not suddenly bend itself overnight. They intentionally chose to announce after taking money from preorders.
I understand the delay. But they should not be taking the money until they begin shipping... In November.
Is that their policy? Only they took my money back in May when I placed the preorder. Pretty certain they always take my money immediately
If you pre-order a D&D product on the D&D Beyond Marketplace or the D&D Store, your card will receive an initial Authorization hold in the amount of the full order price, but will only be charged for the digital items and any physical items on your purchase which are not pre-ordered. Once the physical items you pre-ordered begin shipping to you (usually about a week before the official release so you get it in time), your card will then be charged for those items, plus the shipping fees. Any discounts will be split across the payments based on their portion of the total cost. Tax is applied separately to each transaction.
(My emphasis)
If you only bought digital, that's not relevant to the discussion on charges.
LGSes are an important part of the gaming industry
As a human being, I cannot imagine myself ever having such a level of entitlement that I would want an entire industry and all those - both players and employees - who rely on it to suffer just because I am too impatient to wait a couple months.
95% of gaming revenue is online purchases, retail revenue accounts for 5% of the market. Not important based on revenue, although broadly your points are nice, most retail has moved online for convenience in a busy world. You're being romantic, not realistic.
Gamestop are one of the largest retailers and their revenue is 25% down YoY. People are moving away from bricks and mortar to online purchase models. This is the world we live in.
Entitled? I give money for a product 3 months in advance and then a short while before release they push it back ANOTHER 3 months because of a printing problem which has nothing to do with my digital purchase? I believe I AM entitled to my purchase on time because it has nothing to do with the printing problem. I agree with you, I'm entitled.
I came here to post my opinion on poor service on the thread that pertains to the product I bought, so the company who have over promised and are under delivering get my feedback.
My opinion, that's all it's worth. Each to their own. That's what makes the world interesting, we don't have to agree.
From now on, I just won't be shelling out money on pre-orders based on this breach of trust. I'll wait until they are digitally available before making a purchase.
LGSes are an important part of the gaming industry
As a human being, I cannot imagine myself ever having such a level of entitlement that I would want an entire industry and all those - both players and employees - who rely on it to suffer just because I am too impatient to wait a couple months.
95% of gaming revenue is online purchases, retail revenue accounts for 5% of the market. Not important based on revenue, although broadly your points are nice, most retail has moved online for convenience in a busy world. You're being romantic, not realistic.
Gamestop are one of the largest retailers and their revenue is 25% down YoY. People are moving away from bricks and mortar to online purchase models. This is the world we live in.
Entitled? I give money for a product 3 months in advance and then a short while before release they push it back ANOTHER 3 months because of a printing problem which has nothing to do with my digital purchase? I believe I AM entitled to my purchase on time because it has nothing to do with the printing problem. I agree with you, I'm entitled.
I came here to post my opinion on poor service on the thread that pertains to the product I bought, so the company who have over promised and are under delivering get my feedback.
My opinion, that's all it's worth. Each to their own. That's what makes the world interesting, we don't have to agree.
From now on, I just won't be shelling out money on pre-orders based on this breach of trust. I'll wait until they are digitally available before making a purchase.
Just to point out an inaccuracy: "The Gaming Market" and "The TTRPG Market" and "WOTC Sales" are wildly different things. Most analysis has highlighted that WOTC (not Hasbro) gets the majority of their revenue from physical sales, not digital products. Comparing Activision and Hasbro is pointless as one of them has never had a physical product division.
It's hardly a mystery why. The digital version was also getting warped. They had to recall the entire digital version to make sure it's the best quality possible.
LGSes are an important part of the gaming industry
95% of gaming revenue is online purchases, retail revenue accounts for 5% of the market. Not important based on revenue, although broadly your points are nice, most retail has moved online for convenience in a busy world. You're being romantic, not realistic.
Gamestop are one of the largest retailers and their revenue is 25% down YoY. People are moving away from bricks and mortar to online purchase models. This is the world we live in.
Entitled? I give money for a product 3 months in advance and then a short while before release they push it back ANOTHER 3 months because of a printing problem which has nothing to do with my digital purchase? I believe I AM entitled to my purchase on time because it has nothing to do with the printing problem. I agree with you, I'm entitled.
Just to point out an inaccuracy: "The Gaming Market" and "The TTRPG Market" and "WOTC Sales" are wildly different things. Most analysis has highlighted that WOTC (not Hasbro) gets the majority of their revenue from physical sales, not digital products. Comparing Activision and Hasbro is pointless as one of them has never had a physical product division.
WOTC is and always will be a book publisher.
To build on the above, the most recent public data on the subject (from 2022) indicates around 70% of Wizards’ sales come from local game stores. That figure does not even include powerhouse sellers like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or big box stores. Digital sales would represent only a small fraction of that 30% not claimed by game stores, with a sizable chunk of that 30% being claimed by large physical retailers.
That data might be a bit old, but it is very, very likely a strong supermajority of sales remain physical, with game stores dominating the market, as evidenced by the continued support Wizards consistently gives game stores to help them stay afloat in a particularly challenging market.
Yeah, but I bought the physical books on this site, in a bundle, so no B&M stores were involved anyways. I have the feeling the new guy had some changes he wanted made, and they need to reprint the books. This kind of delay for a cover seems pretty outlandish. I am a regular supporter of Kickstarters, currently about 11 are D&D related. If this kind of thing delayed a book this badly there would be pitchforks and torches. If little indies can do this, I can't believe that A printer like Wizards has this big of an issue with it. And the instances I'm thinking about were foil covers!
I feel like we aren't being told the whole story. This instance smacks of a late edit to the material itself, not just the stupid covers.
As for the digital material being released months later than they need to be for the physical books, I'm furious about that. I'm trying to be cool, but I'm mad as hell. I own both books and digital on pretty much all my materials, and I use the digital a LOT when I'm putting together a game.
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“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Attributed to Edmund Burke, 1961 (It is conjectured that he never said it.)
All this romantic LGS pontificating is just bad business.
Yeah Taylor Swift releases vinyl and CDs. But the business changed to streaming and online mainly.
You can do both but if you want to grow the brand then you have to embrace the online part of DnD.
I'm helping illustrate that point by voicing my displeasure.
I provided data showing why it is important for Wizards to look out for LGSes - LGS sales account for somewhere in the ballpark of 70% of their revenues. You cannot counteract hard data by pointing at a completely different, non-analogous industry.
You do not grow a brand by abandoning what works for something smaller. You grow a brand by ensuring you have a strong base that can be used as a launching point for successful digital ventures. That is what Wizards is doing - they are protecting LGSes (their base) while also working to expand digital footprints (purchasing Beyond; Magic Arena).
So, from a business common sense analysis stance, let us look at the balance. On one side, you have 70% of your sales. They are in a fragile industry that is particularly prone to inflation (decreases in customer discretionary spending tend to hit hobby stores first) and heavily reliant on inventory that might be slow to move (high value collector items or Magic cards, for example), and thus need regular influxes of cash, such as a major D&D release, to help them stay afloat.
You could say that the other side is digital players - but it is not, since many digital players are going to unhappily wait for the new product, but not change their buying patterns long-term. It is a subsection of the already small subsection of digital players who are too impatient to get a book that they will simply refuse to wait a couple months, and will refuse to purchase the book when it does release, or those who will not purchase future products because of a bad experience with this one.
I expect that is a very small subsection of the community - delays are annoying, but most people get over themselves when the actual product releases, particularly if it is a strong product and feels with the wait.
From a business sense, what makes more sense? Protecting the 70% of your business reliant on you? Or protecting the very vocal minority of players whose level of entitlement and impatience is so high, they might not come back for a future book? I know which any sensible business would choose - and it isn’t those throwing a fit because they think they are more important to Wizards’ future than they actually are.
Wizards was put in a bad situation by their third-party printer. They made a choice and were always going to upset someone. As someone with basic levels of empathy, I would rather it be me who is upset for a couple months (which I’ll get over once I have a new book to explore) than have anyone lose their job over it. But, hey, maybe that math is different for some people - fortunately, however, Wizards is disinclined to listen to those folks, nor should they. You don’t grow a business by listening to the whiny customers who will never really be satisfied and are thus impossible to hold onto long term given their propensity for stopping purchases over any slight (including imagined ones).
All this romantic LGS pontificating is just bad business.
Yeah Taylor Swift releases vinyl and CDs. But the business changed to streaming and online mainly.
You can do both but if you want to grow the brand then you have to embrace the online part of DnD.
I'm helping illustrate that point by voicing my displeasure.
Those are two very different markets, so the comparison is fairly weak. Plus, as I understand it the big earner for major music companies/artists anymore is the concerts because there’s so much digital piracy of the songs.
Yeah, but I bought the physical books on this site, in a bundle, so no B&M stores were involved anyways. I have the feeling the new guy had some changes he wanted made, and they need to reprint the books. This kind of delay for a cover seems pretty outlandish.
Fixing misprinted covers does in fact require a reprint. I suspect a lot of the delay is at the printer's end, though; large-ish print runs usually require a considerable advance period.
Yeah, but I bought the physical books on this site, in a bundle, so no B&M stores were involved anyways. I have the feeling the new guy had some changes he wanted made, and they need to reprint the books. This kind of delay for a cover seems pretty outlandish. I am a regular supporter of Kickstarters, currently about 11 are D&D related. If this kind of thing delayed a book this badly there would be pitchforks and torches. If little indies can do this, I can't believe that A printer like Wizards has this big of an issue with it. And the instances I'm thinking about were foil covers!
I feel like we aren't being told the whole story. This instance smacks of a late edit to the material itself, not just the stupid covers.
As for the digital material being released months later than they need to be for the physical books, I'm furious about that. I'm trying to be cool, but I'm mad as hell. I own both books and digital on pretty much all my materials, and I use the digital a LOT when I'm putting together a game.
I also back a lot of D&D kickstarters and one of them only a couple of months ago had to delay shipping because of a fault with their print run so not sure what point you’re trying to make. Also in case you haven’t noticed Kickstarters tend to fulfil when they fulfil with only the shakiest of timelines rather than having exact release dates so don’t suffer the main pitfall that WotC have of everyone jumping up and down screaming conspiracy if there’s a problem. if there’s a problem they don’t even need to admit it. It’s not the first time WotC has had a print problem (see the Deck of Many Things) and I doubt it will be the last so you might want to take off the tin foil hat
Yeah, but I bought the physical books on this site, in a bundle, so no B&M stores were involved anyways. I have the feeling the new guy had some changes he wanted made, and they need to reprint the books. This kind of delay for a cover seems pretty outlandish. I am a regular supporter of Kickstarters, currently about 11 are D&D related. If this kind of thing delayed a book this badly there would be pitchforks and torches. If little indies can do this, I can't believe that A printer like Wizards has this big of an issue with it. And the instances I'm thinking about were foil covers!
I feel like we aren't being told the whole story. This instance smacks of a late edit to the material itself, not just the stupid covers.
This is conspiratorial and shows a lack of understanding of the publishing industry.
Printing books is hard and expensive - particularly as wood pulp prices have gone up. Printing books at scale means you are printing them months in advance and then storing them, waiting for the release - after all, you want to make sure you receive all product well before the release, so you request deliverables early to offset the chance for delay. Given that one of the main materials is glue - a product prone to degrading if not properly formulated and/or applied, defects can happen.
That is a multi-million dollar commitment from Wizards and one they are currently carrying on their balance sheet and want to offset with revenue as quickly as possible. The idea they would say “throw out those millions of dollars of product, and delay release until late in the next fiscal quarter (and almost the end of the fiscal year), we want to rewrite something” is, quite frankly, absurd. Your entire post is based on the belief someone in creative would set millions of dollars on metaphorical fire just because they want to place their stamp on a book…. And that someone in the decision making tree on the business side would let them do that. Even by conspiracy theory standards, that seems particularly outlandish.
The reality? The official story makes sense. Defective product cannot be shipped and something like an issue with the covers cannot be fixed without either reprinting or rebinding the entire book. That is an intensive process, especially when dealing with hundreds of thousands of physical copies. Obviously that is going to take a couple months to get fixed, especially at such a huge scale.
D&D players really could benefit from lessons in Occam’s and Hanlon’s Razors.
It's hardly a mystery why. The digital version was also getting warped. They had to recall the entire digital version to make sure it's the best quality possible.
we left them out in the sun and they warped like vinyls
(also what a day for me to be off work when this gets announced, huh)
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It's hardly a mystery why. The digital version was also getting warped. They had to recall the entire digital version to make sure it's the best quality possible.
we left them out in the sun and they warped like vinyls
(also what a day for me to be off work when this gets announced, huh)
It never rains, but it pours.
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A conspiracy is a group of seemingly individuals or organizations conspiring to subvert something. A conspiracy theory is an explanation for an event or situation that asserts the existence of a conspiracy when other explanations are more probable.
This is just a corporation being greedy. Literally the 'more probable' explanation. It's almost reaching "conspiracy theorist" levels to pretend that they don't know what they're doing and were blissfully innocent.
Actually waiting until the item really ships has been done by online vendors for decades. Having a system that can't actually tell whether the item's shipped before charging the customer is a sign of a poorly-run online business.
To each their own, but with a few exceptions like kickstarter I've very against a company taking my money before they're actually going to give me the item the payment is for. If they can't fulfill the order for three months, I shouldn't be paying them for the job they haven't actually done yet.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Is that their policy? Only they took my money back in May when I placed the preorder. Pretty certain they always take my money immediately
Based on their behavior with the 24 books, they take the money for the digital immediately, and only charge for the physical when shipping happens.
However, the idea that they chose to take the money for the physical books right before canceling is likely getting it backwards. The canceling almost certainly happened because they were starting the shipping process, the first part of which is collecting the money for the preorders to generate the data they need to ship the books. (After all, some percentage of the preorders are going to fail due to card cancellations, lack of money, or just glitches in the CC system, and those people don't get sent books.) At that point, what likely happened was that the warehouse people started opening the crates of books, and discovered the problem. Then followed a rapid round of checking to see if it was widespread, some extremely heated conversations with the printers and insurance companies, and a decision to reprint.
Even if they were reversing the charges, that's a process that takes time. (No idea if they intend to. I expect not, but that's a matter of accounting regulations and their agreements with the CC processors.) It's only been like three days, and a weekend at that.
I play digital with my kids and others. Have no interest in filling my home with paper (from trees and shipped around the world) when there is an easy to navigate digital tool to use. Delaying delivery of the product that I ordered because a hard copy product I didnt order is delayed is bollocks in my opinion. I cant buy digital through local game stores, Im sympathetic to them but I dont see them as having anything to do with my digital experience. A LgS has nothing to do with my steam account, why my dndbeyond account?
It is not particularly hard to figure out - it just requires a bit of common sense and empathy, all of which has been already explained on this thread. But, in case you missed it, let us spell this out again.
LGSes are an important part of the gaming industry - they are a common place for many to shop, often have events or other programs that onboard new players, and play a very important role in the sale not only of D&D, but pretty much every other nerdy game from billion dollar brands like Magic to small indie developers. Even beyond the stores, game are an important foundation of entire communities - you can walk into any game store any time and you’ll probably see groups od friends playing cards, tossing dice, or moving miniatures.
Game stores have a lot of struggles, particularly competition from places like Amazon and digital. To keep them alive, Wizards heavily subsidizes their activity - Magic is typically the bread and butter of most game stores and things like early release and specialty copies of D&D books give the game stores the first bite at the pie before they have to compete with Amazon and big box stores. Giving Digital that extra early release takes a lot of the wind out of that “first bite” that game stores rely upon, especially when it is a product that likely will be a major seller like this one.
As a digital player who loves Eberron, I am sad about the delay. As a human being, I cannot imagine myself ever having such a level of entitlement that I would want an entire industry and all those - both players and employees - who rely on it to suffer just because I am too impatient to wait a couple months.
https://dndbeyond-support.wizards.com/hc/en-us/articles/19045445378708-Pre-Order-FAQ#h_01J7P55A509YCAK03XY2XHNX2W
(My emphasis)
If you only bought digital, that's not relevant to the discussion on charges.
95% of gaming revenue is online purchases, retail revenue accounts for 5% of the market. Not important based on revenue, although broadly your points are nice, most retail has moved online for convenience in a busy world. You're being romantic, not realistic.
Gamestop are one of the largest retailers and their revenue is 25% down YoY. People are moving away from bricks and mortar to online purchase models. This is the world we live in.
(reference here https://oan.pl/95-of-global-game-market-revenues-comes-from-digital/#:~:text=Physical%20games%20now%20account%20for%20less%20than,digital%20games%20last%20year%E2%80%94a%200.7%25%20year%2Dover%2Dyear%20increase. )
Entitled? I give money for a product 3 months in advance and then a short while before release they push it back ANOTHER 3 months because of a printing problem which has nothing to do with my digital purchase? I believe I AM entitled to my purchase on time because it has nothing to do with the printing problem. I agree with you, I'm entitled.
I came here to post my opinion on poor service on the thread that pertains to the product I bought, so the company who have over promised and are under delivering get my feedback.
My opinion, that's all it's worth. Each to their own. That's what makes the world interesting, we don't have to agree.
From now on, I just won't be shelling out money on pre-orders based on this breach of trust. I'll wait until they are digitally available before making a purchase.
Just to point out an inaccuracy: "The Gaming Market" and "The TTRPG Market" and "WOTC Sales" are wildly different things. Most analysis has highlighted that WOTC (not Hasbro) gets the majority of their revenue from physical sales, not digital products. Comparing Activision and Hasbro is pointless as one of them has never had a physical product division.
WOTC is and always will be a book publisher.
It's hardly a mystery why. The digital version was also getting warped. They had to recall the entire digital version to make sure it's the best quality possible.
To build on the above, the most recent public data on the subject (from 2022) indicates around 70% of Wizards’ sales come from local game stores. That figure does not even include powerhouse sellers like Amazon, Barnes & Noble, or big box stores. Digital sales would represent only a small fraction of that 30% not claimed by game stores, with a sizable chunk of that 30% being claimed by large physical retailers.
That data might be a bit old, but it is very, very likely a strong supermajority of sales remain physical, with game stores dominating the market, as evidenced by the continued support Wizards consistently gives game stores to help them stay afloat in a particularly challenging market.
Yeah, but I bought the physical books on this site, in a bundle, so no B&M stores were involved anyways. I have the feeling the new guy had some changes he wanted made, and they need to reprint the books. This kind of delay for a cover seems pretty outlandish. I am a regular supporter of Kickstarters, currently about 11 are D&D related. If this kind of thing delayed a book this badly there would be pitchforks and torches. If little indies can do this, I can't believe that A printer like Wizards has this big of an issue with it. And the instances I'm thinking about were foil covers!
I feel like we aren't being told the whole story. This instance smacks of a late edit to the material itself, not just the stupid covers.
As for the digital material being released months later than they need to be for the physical books, I'm furious about that. I'm trying to be cool, but I'm mad as hell. I own both books and digital on pretty much all my materials, and I use the digital a LOT when I'm putting together a game.
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” John Stuart Mill, 1867
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Attributed to Edmund Burke, 1961 (It is conjectured that he never said it.)
All this romantic LGS pontificating is just bad business.
Yeah Taylor Swift releases vinyl and CDs. But the business changed to streaming and online mainly.
You can do both but if you want to grow the brand then you have to embrace the online part of DnD.
I'm helping illustrate that point by voicing my displeasure.
I provided data showing why it is important for Wizards to look out for LGSes - LGS sales account for somewhere in the ballpark of 70% of their revenues. You cannot counteract hard data by pointing at a completely different, non-analogous industry.
You do not grow a brand by abandoning what works for something smaller. You grow a brand by ensuring you have a strong base that can be used as a launching point for successful digital ventures. That is what Wizards is doing - they are protecting LGSes (their base) while also working to expand digital footprints (purchasing Beyond; Magic Arena).
So, from a business common sense analysis stance, let us look at the balance. On one side, you have 70% of your sales. They are in a fragile industry that is particularly prone to inflation (decreases in customer discretionary spending tend to hit hobby stores first) and heavily reliant on inventory that might be slow to move (high value collector items or Magic cards, for example), and thus need regular influxes of cash, such as a major D&D release, to help them stay afloat.
You could say that the other side is digital players - but it is not, since many digital players are going to unhappily wait for the new product, but not change their buying patterns long-term. It is a subsection of the already small subsection of digital players who are too impatient to get a book that they will simply refuse to wait a couple months, and will refuse to purchase the book when it does release, or those who will not purchase future products because of a bad experience with this one.
I expect that is a very small subsection of the community - delays are annoying, but most people get over themselves when the actual product releases, particularly if it is a strong product and feels with the wait.
From a business sense, what makes more sense? Protecting the 70% of your business reliant on you? Or protecting the very vocal minority of players whose level of entitlement and impatience is so high, they might not come back for a future book? I know which any sensible business would choose - and it isn’t those throwing a fit because they think they are more important to Wizards’ future than they actually are.
Wizards was put in a bad situation by their third-party printer. They made a choice and were always going to upset someone. As someone with basic levels of empathy, I would rather it be me who is upset for a couple months (which I’ll get over once I have a new book to explore) than have anyone lose their job over it. But, hey, maybe that math is different for some people - fortunately, however, Wizards is disinclined to listen to those folks, nor should they. You don’t grow a business by listening to the whiny customers who will never really be satisfied and are thus impossible to hold onto long term given their propensity for stopping purchases over any slight (including imagined ones).
Those are two very different markets, so the comparison is fairly weak. Plus, as I understand it the big earner for major music companies/artists anymore is the concerts because there’s so much digital piracy of the songs.
Fixing misprinted covers does in fact require a reprint. I suspect a lot of the delay is at the printer's end, though; large-ish print runs usually require a considerable advance period.
I also back a lot of D&D kickstarters and one of them only a couple of months ago had to delay shipping because of a fault with their print run so not sure what point you’re trying to make. Also in case you haven’t noticed Kickstarters tend to fulfil when they fulfil with only the shakiest of timelines rather than having exact release dates so don’t suffer the main pitfall that WotC have of everyone jumping up and down screaming conspiracy if there’s a problem. if there’s a problem they don’t even need to admit it. It’s not the first time WotC has had a print problem (see the Deck of Many Things) and I doubt it will be the last so you might want to take off the tin foil hat
This is conspiratorial and shows a lack of understanding of the publishing industry.
Printing books is hard and expensive - particularly as wood pulp prices have gone up. Printing books at scale means you are printing them months in advance and then storing them, waiting for the release - after all, you want to make sure you receive all product well before the release, so you request deliverables early to offset the chance for delay. Given that one of the main materials is glue - a product prone to degrading if not properly formulated and/or applied, defects can happen.
That is a multi-million dollar commitment from Wizards and one they are currently carrying on their balance sheet and want to offset with revenue as quickly as possible. The idea they would say “throw out those millions of dollars of product, and delay release until late in the next fiscal quarter (and almost the end of the fiscal year), we want to rewrite something” is, quite frankly, absurd. Your entire post is based on the belief someone in creative would set millions of dollars on metaphorical fire just because they want to place their stamp on a book…. And that someone in the decision making tree on the business side would let them do that. Even by conspiracy theory standards, that seems particularly outlandish.
The reality? The official story makes sense. Defective product cannot be shipped and something like an issue with the covers cannot be fixed without either reprinting or rebinding the entire book. That is an intensive process, especially when dealing with hundreds of thousands of physical copies. Obviously that is going to take a couple months to get fixed, especially at such a huge scale.
D&D players really could benefit from lessons in Occam’s and Hanlon’s Razors.
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D&D Staffwe left them out in the sun and they warped like vinyls
(also what a day for me to be off work when this gets announced, huh)
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