Currently, all monster HD do in 5e is determine hit points -- except that there's a formula for how many hit points a creature of a given CR is expected to have, so it turns into a math exercise of 'given this con value and hit die size, how many hit dice do I need to hit that target', and it's pretty rare for DMs to actually roll hit points instead of taking the average or max. In theory they can be spent during a short rest, but I have literally never seen a monster run out of hit dice for healing (sure, sometimes a monster will escape the PCs once, take a short rest, and engage them a second time, but engaging the PCs three times in one day I've never seen, either it dies or it runs far enough away for a long rest to apply).
As such, the game wouldn't really be harmed by just tossing hit dice and giving monsters hit points to fit their desired CR. It loses an element of simulationism, but given that a lowly mage apprentice has 9 HD, they've given up on simulation in 5e anyway. If simulation became a goal, they should instead base PB on HD, at which point HD have a similar role to what they did in 3e.
Currently, all monster HD do in 5e is determine hit points -- except that there's a formula for how many hit points a creature of a given CR is expected to have, so it turns into a math exercise of 'given this con value and hit die size, how many hit dice do I need to hit that target', and it's pretty rare for DMs to actually roll hit points instead of taking the average or max. In theory they can be spent during a short rest, but I have literally never seen a monster run out of hit dice for healing (sure, sometimes a monster will escape the PCs once, take a short rest, and engage them a second time, but engaging the PCs three times in one day I've never seen, either it dies or it runs far enough away for a long rest to apply).
As such, the game wouldn't really be harmed by just tossing hit dice and giving monsters hit points to fit their desired CR. It loses an element of simulationism, but given that a lowly mage apprentice has 9 HD, they've given up on simulation in 5e anyway. If simulation became a goal, they should instead base PB on HD, at which point HD have a similar role to what they did in 3e.
Why would you want to give DMs fewer options?
I'm far more likely to need to know how many HD a monster has in the campaign I DM than I am to ever need to know a monster's CR
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Because it's not really an 'option', it's busywork? If you want a monster to have more or fewer hit points... just give it more or fewer hit points.
Your argument is based on worrying about CR, which is the literal definition of busywork and has zero usage in actual game play
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Your argument is based on worrying about CR, which is the literal definition of busywork and has zero usage in actual game play
CR affects monster stats (a lot of things are based on PB) and a significant number of spells have a CR-based element (not as many as 2014, but still a significant number). Hit points are used in play, but hit dice are almost never directly used.
Your argument is based on worrying about CR, which is the literal definition of busywork and has zero usage in actual game play
CR affects monster stats (a lot of things are based on PB) and a significant number of spells have a CR-based element (not as many as 2014, but still a significant number). Hit points are used in play, but hit dice are almost never directly used.
If you want a monster to have a higher or lower PB... just give it a higher or lower PB. Or something along those lines
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Hit Dice is simply a replacement for the old monster levels, and one of the legacy elements, just like Ability Scores, which should just be replaced by the modifier.
You are completely free to do whatever you like when it comes to monster HP. You can make a CR 1 creature with 100HP that hits like a damp cloth. Won't be terribly enjoyable unless your players are using it to practice their skills, but you can do it.
The reality is, the game is yours to do as you wish. You don't have to follow the vague monster building rules from the 2014 DMG, and they weren't even included in the 2024 DMG or Monster Manual (where they always should have been).
Hit dice on monsters are required for any ability or game feature that interacts with hit dice (such as wither and bloom) or, and this is the important one, could interact with hit dice in the future. By removing it from monsters, you cut off that possibility, or at the very least create a situation where the rules need include a fallback for things that don't have hit dice being affected by things that affect hit dice.
Additionally, hit dice allow DMs to randomize hit points for monsters (something I personally do often) and benefit from short rests which is relevant if you use monsters that don't just fight to the death.
Personally, I'd like DDB to let me use them. At the moment, if I want to use anything other than the average, I have to fudge it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Currently, all monster HD do in 5e is determine hit points -- except that there's a formula for how many hit points a creature of a given CR is expected to have, so it turns into a math exercise of 'given this con value and hit die size, how many hit dice do I need to hit that target', and it's pretty rare for DMs to actually roll hit points instead of taking the average or max. In theory they can be spent during a short rest, but I have literally never seen a monster run out of hit dice for healing (sure, sometimes a monster will escape the PCs once, take a short rest, and engage them a second time, but engaging the PCs three times in one day I've never seen, either it dies or it runs far enough away for a long rest to apply).
As such, the game wouldn't really be harmed by just tossing hit dice and giving monsters hit points to fit their desired CR. It loses an element of simulationism, but given that a lowly mage apprentice has 9 HD, they've given up on simulation in 5e anyway. If simulation became a goal, they should instead base PB on HD, at which point HD have a similar role to what they did in 3e.
Neither would the game by improved by removing HD from the stat blocks. Heck, our players rarely use HD other than Fighters.
HD as a whole imo are laegely underutilized and only been more used since around Bigby if my memory serves, with magic items and some regional stuff/locations caring about it. Which reminds me, It's an interesting situation if you give a Bloodshed Blade to something with a huge pool of hit dice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"You're not chaotic evil! You're just chaotic SHIT!"
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Currently, all monster HD do in 5e is determine hit points -- except that there's a formula for how many hit points a creature of a given CR is expected to have, so it turns into a math exercise of 'given this con value and hit die size, how many hit dice do I need to hit that target', and it's pretty rare for DMs to actually roll hit points instead of taking the average or max. In theory they can be spent during a short rest, but I have literally never seen a monster run out of hit dice for healing (sure, sometimes a monster will escape the PCs once, take a short rest, and engage them a second time, but engaging the PCs three times in one day I've never seen, either it dies or it runs far enough away for a long rest to apply).
As such, the game wouldn't really be harmed by just tossing hit dice and giving monsters hit points to fit their desired CR. It loses an element of simulationism, but given that a lowly mage apprentice has 9 HD, they've given up on simulation in 5e anyway. If simulation became a goal, they should instead base PB on HD, at which point HD have a similar role to what they did in 3e.
Why would you want to give DMs fewer options?
I'm far more likely to need to know how many HD a monster has in the campaign I DM than I am to ever need to know a monster's CR
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Because it's not really an 'option', it's busywork? If you want a monster to have more or fewer hit points... just give it more or fewer hit points.
Your argument is based on worrying about CR, which is the literal definition of busywork and has zero usage in actual game play
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
CR affects monster stats (a lot of things are based on PB) and a significant number of spells have a CR-based element (not as many as 2014, but still a significant number). Hit points are used in play, but hit dice are almost never directly used.
If you want a monster to have a higher or lower PB... just give it a higher or lower PB. Or something along those lines
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Hit Dice is simply a replacement for the old monster levels, and one of the legacy elements, just like Ability Scores, which should just be replaced by the modifier.
You are completely free to do whatever you like when it comes to monster HP. You can make a CR 1 creature with 100HP that hits like a damp cloth. Won't be terribly enjoyable unless your players are using it to practice their skills, but you can do it.
The reality is, the game is yours to do as you wish. You don't have to follow the vague monster building rules from the 2014 DMG, and they weren't even included in the 2024 DMG or Monster Manual (where they always should have been).
Don't like it? Change it. It's your game.
Hit dice on monsters are required for any ability or game feature that interacts with hit dice (such as wither and bloom) or, and this is the important one, could interact with hit dice in the future. By removing it from monsters, you cut off that possibility, or at the very least create a situation where the rules need include a fallback for things that don't have hit dice being affected by things that affect hit dice.
Additionally, hit dice allow DMs to randomize hit points for monsters (something I personally do often) and benefit from short rests which is relevant if you use monsters that don't just fight to the death.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Personally, I'd like DDB to let me use them. At the moment, if I want to use anything other than the average, I have to fudge it.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Neither would the game by improved by removing HD from the stat blocks. Heck, our players rarely use HD other than Fighters.
Whenever I have a lot of time to pre-plan encounters, I always like to roll for enemy hp just to put that extra unique spin on it.
Roll it then use the "Override Max Hit Points" in the Encounter tool or the Maps Combat Tracker.
HD as a whole imo are laegely underutilized and only been more used since around Bigby if my memory serves, with magic items and some regional stuff/locations caring about it. Which reminds me, It's an interesting situation if you give a Bloodshed Blade to something with a huge pool of hit dice.
"You're not chaotic evil! You're just chaotic SHIT!"