I like the Advantage/Disadvantage mechanic, but I think that in certain situations, having modifiers like those in AD&D or 3e could be nice, at least as an option, variant, or suggestion for DMs.
I'll admit, I do actually kinda miss THAC0. "TAHC0 Tuesday" just sounds like a great name for a weekly gaming session. And, once you understood how TACH0 worked, it was pretty smooth (compared to the mess we dealt with in 1e).
One rule I do miss from 1e & 2e is actually rolling your HP at first level. Yeah, sure, you may roll a magic user with 1 HP, but that just made you more likely to think before you acted. Oh, and no death saving rolls. I still don't understand the point. So, your just kinda mostly dead, but not really, just kinda?
One rule I do miss from 1e & 2e is actually rolling your HP at first level. Yeah, sure, you may roll a magic user with 1 HP, but that just made you more likely to think before you acted. Oh, and no death saving rolls. I still don't understand the point. So, your just kinda mostly dead, but not really, just kinda?
just adds a little drama/uncertainty and opens the door for a little luck.
It's pretty exciting when you roll a 20 and you get 1hp back and can stand up and act.
One rule I do miss from 1e & 2e is actually rolling your HP at first level. Yeah, sure, you may roll a magic user with 1 HP, but that just made you more likely to think before you acted. Oh, and no death saving rolls. I still don't understand the point. So, your just kinda mostly dead, but not really, just kinda?
Besides flanking (which they should've been mandatory like older editions and not optional), I miss Hit Dice abilities and the Permanency spell. RAW, no spell in 5E is permanent unless it specifies it in the spell description
Besides flanking (which they should've been mandatory like older editions and not optional), I miss Hit Dice abilities and the Permanency spell. RAW, no spell in 5E is permanent unless it specifies it in the spell description
Yeah, many variant or optional rules are not included in the new books. So if you are a new DM/player, starting with the 2024 edition, you might not even know they exist.
The next article, shared in a different thread, suggested some reasons why that rule wasn't included:
One rule I do miss from 1e & 2e is actually rolling your HP at first level. Yeah, sure, you may roll a magic user with 1 HP, but that just made you more likely to think before you acted. Oh, and no death saving rolls. I still don't understand the point. So, your just kinda mostly dead, but not really, just kinda?
I miss the Habitat and Ecology sections of old 2nd edition Monster Manuals/Compendiums. Talk about flavor. Pretty much the complete opposite of Mordenkainen Presents Monster Mash Bash Blah published a few years ago.
I miss the Habitat and Ecology sections of old 2nd edition Monster Manuals/Compendiums. Talk about flavor. Pretty much the complete opposite of Mordenkainen Presents Monster Mash Bash Blah published a few years ago.
I miss the Bloodied mechanic from 4th edition.
I think Bloodied got quietly reintroduce in 2024, there’s a couple of monsters and effects I’ve come across that reference it (although can’t think of any off the top of my head I’m afraid)
while bloodied is in the glossary it pretty much is a non existent rule as almost nothing references it. I wish they had gone deeper on bloodied than even 4e did, like when bloodied you heal slower as now you are taking some actual hits, somethin you cant just sleep off for example.
i miss the older save systems. I like the logic behind will/reflex/fort or stat based in 5e, but the way they scale just suck. You are basically no better at level 20 at resisting spells etc than you were at level 1. And effectively worse as the save DCs went up but your ability to resist did not. Give me 2e scaling, sure tie them to stats or whatever. But a level 20 barbarian should be able to break a hideous laughter from a level 1 wizard with ease. It shouldn't be damn I need to roll a 13. Yes yes you can build to resist it, but you should not need to leveling should cover basic save defense in all saves.
I miss how rituals worked in 4e, and how that limited the scope of spells. I did not think 4e rituals were perfect as I think they should be designed around 1 person doing the ritual with additional people making it easier. As it sucked if you wanted to be into rituals and no other players wanted to bother. Your abilities should not require other players to buy in, but it should benefit from it. And some of the costs were kind of silly. They would be like create a single meal ritual, cool oh it costs the same as 5 years of rations NM. But it limited some of the spells as well. Things like raise dead, teleport, alarm would be rituals only not spells. The ritual system also gave martials the option to have a casters utility.
I miss the baneful polymorph, I think it was called the one that only turned you into a 1/2 hit die creature. I think that should be the only polymorph in the game. Polymorph as a buff is too good imo.
I miss some of the spells from earlier editions, im not just talking combat ones, but ones that kind of filled out the world. Like one where you could basically take a picture and plant into a crystal ball permanently. Or a bit on the combat side but animate dead spells that covered animating a wolf, a raven etc not just basic humanoid skeleton/zombie. Like go through that 4 book compendium of spells from late 2e that had every spell ever published for 1r-2e and bring back some of those fun dragon magazine spells.
i'm on the fence but i kind of miss the bigger modifier system or 3e, the +6 across 20 levels i always forget what they call it, but it just feels a bit off to me. With how random a d20 is its kind of insane how often untrained/10 stat party members beats out trained/high stat party members even at like level 10. without really focusing in on it you just don't feel that much better than rando guy. Yeah sure combat wise with all your hit points and abilities you are insanely better overall. But on one off rolls you just are not enough better imo.
This. Anyone who talks about THAC0 as the worst thing ever has never seen what it replaced.
Granted, there is now something much better, but that doesn't change the fact that THAC0 was both a simplification and an improvement over what came before when it was first published.
This. Anyone who talks about THAC0 as the worst thing ever has never seen what it replaced.
Granted, there is now something much better, but that doesn't change the fact that THAC0 was both a simplification and an improvement over what came before when it was first published.
I can kind of argue either way, but they never really used the big advantage of lookup tables (They can be nonlinear), except by having about 5 ACs that could be hit on 20 before it started to climb again.
But I would call neither of them a rule I miss at all. :)
I really liked 4e's three-stage leveling paths, and also the mook minion rule.
i miss the older save systems. I like the logic behind will/reflex/fort or stat based in 5e, but the way they scale just suck. You are basically no better at level 20 at resisting spells etc than you were at level 1. And effectively worse as the save DCs went up but your ability to resist did not. Give me 2e scaling, sure tie them to stats or whatever. But a level 20 barbarian should be able to break a hideous laughter from a level 1 wizard with ease. It shouldn't be damn I need to roll a 13. Yes yes you can build to resist it, but you should not need to leveling should cover basic save defense in all saves.
The flip side of that was that saving throw advancement under 3rd Edition Rules meant that by the time you got to high levels, the disparity between your good saving throw and your bad saving throws was such that you would only fail on a 1 for the former and needed a natural 20 for the latter.
Personally, I miss exotic weapons- they mostly sucked but they added diversity. Also, I miss having rules for running monstrous PCs.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
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I'll admit, I do actually kinda miss THAC0. "TAHC0 Tuesday" just sounds like a great name for a weekly gaming session. And, once you understood how TACH0 worked, it was pretty smooth (compared to the mess we dealt with in 1e).
One rule I do miss from 1e & 2e is actually rolling your HP at first level. Yeah, sure, you may roll a magic user with 1 HP, but that just made you more likely to think before you acted. Oh, and no death saving rolls. I still don't understand the point. So, your just kinda mostly dead, but not really, just kinda?
just adds a little drama/uncertainty and opens the door for a little luck.
It's pretty exciting when you roll a 20 and you get 1hp back and can stand up and act.
You can still roll your hit points.
Besides flanking (which they should've been mandatory like older editions and not optional), I miss Hit Dice abilities and the Permanency spell. RAW, no spell in 5E is permanent unless it specifies it in the spell description
Yeah, many variant or optional rules are not included in the new books. So if you are a new DM/player, starting with the 2024 edition, you might not even know they exist.
The next article, shared in a different thread, suggested some reasons why that rule wasn't included:
I miss Sleep from 2014.
I miss the little adventurer "comic" from the ADND DMG.
I miss monsters with treasure lists.
I miss the -10 hp rule. But not all the time.
I miss being able to stay up all night gaming.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
You never roll your first level hit points.
Not rules as written you don't but there's certainly nothing stopping you if it's an old rule you miss
I miss the Habitat and Ecology sections of old 2nd edition Monster Manuals/Compendiums. Talk about flavor. Pretty much the complete opposite of Mordenkainen Presents Monster Mash Bash Blah published a few years ago.
I miss the Bloodied mechanic from 4th edition.
I think Bloodied got quietly reintroduce in 2024, there’s a couple of monsters and effects I’ve come across that reference it (although can’t think of any off the top of my head I’m afraid)
It wasn't particularly quiet, they mentioned it at the time. See bloodied.
while bloodied is in the glossary it pretty much is a non existent rule as almost nothing references it. I wish they had gone deeper on bloodied than even 4e did, like when bloodied you heal slower as now you are taking some actual hits, somethin you cant just sleep off for example.
i miss the older save systems. I like the logic behind will/reflex/fort or stat based in 5e, but the way they scale just suck. You are basically no better at level 20 at resisting spells etc than you were at level 1. And effectively worse as the save DCs went up but your ability to resist did not. Give me 2e scaling, sure tie them to stats or whatever. But a level 20 barbarian should be able to break a hideous laughter from a level 1 wizard with ease. It shouldn't be damn I need to roll a 13. Yes yes you can build to resist it, but you should not need to leveling should cover basic save defense in all saves.
I miss how rituals worked in 4e, and how that limited the scope of spells. I did not think 4e rituals were perfect as I think they should be designed around 1 person doing the ritual with additional people making it easier. As it sucked if you wanted to be into rituals and no other players wanted to bother. Your abilities should not require other players to buy in, but it should benefit from it. And some of the costs were kind of silly. They would be like create a single meal ritual, cool oh it costs the same as 5 years of rations NM. But it limited some of the spells as well. Things like raise dead, teleport, alarm would be rituals only not spells. The ritual system also gave martials the option to have a casters utility.
I miss the baneful polymorph, I think it was called the one that only turned you into a 1/2 hit die creature. I think that should be the only polymorph in the game. Polymorph as a buff is too good imo.
I miss some of the spells from earlier editions, im not just talking combat ones, but ones that kind of filled out the world. Like one where you could basically take a picture and plant into a crystal ball permanently. Or a bit on the combat side but animate dead spells that covered animating a wolf, a raven etc not just basic humanoid skeleton/zombie. Like go through that 4 book compendium of spells from late 2e that had every spell ever published for 1r-2e and bring back some of those fun dragon magazine spells.
i'm on the fence but i kind of miss the bigger modifier system or 3e, the +6 across 20 levels i always forget what they call it, but it just feels a bit off to me. With how random a d20 is its kind of insane how often untrained/10 stat party members beats out trained/high stat party members even at like level 10. without really focusing in on it you just don't feel that much better than rando guy. Yeah sure combat wise with all your hit points and abilities you are insanely better overall. But on one off rolls you just are not enough better imo.
This. Anyone who talks about THAC0 as the worst thing ever has never seen what it replaced.
Granted, there is now something much better, but that doesn't change the fact that THAC0 was both a simplification and an improvement over what came before when it was first published.
I can kind of argue either way, but they never really used the big advantage of lookup tables (They can be nonlinear), except by having about 5 ACs that could be hit on 20 before it started to climb again.
But I would call neither of them a rule I miss at all. :)
I really liked 4e's three-stage leveling paths, and also the
mookminion rule.It's not the worst thing ever, but that doesn't mean I miss it. It got replaced in turn, and I prefer the replacement.
The flip side of that was that saving throw advancement under 3rd Edition Rules meant that by the time you got to high levels, the disparity between your good saving throw and your bad saving throws was such that you would only fail on a 1 for the former and needed a natural 20 for the latter.
Personally, I miss exotic weapons- they mostly sucked but they added diversity. Also, I miss having rules for running monstrous PCs.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.