This spell potentially gives a target disadvantage on Strength-based attacks, cuts the target's speed in half and gives attacks against it advantage, and causes it to implode and die. All with NO SAVE. All from a single SECOND LEVEL spell?
Is it just me, or does this seem more like a 5th or 6th level spell?
If you play with material from that module using the suggested optional rule(which should be required to use it IMO), then it balances out like how the Shadow Corruption in the Kobold Press stuff is supposed to work.
A DM should implement said rule, & similar rules in regards to spells from this module & others if balance is a concern. If you're playing strict RAW, then you shouldn't be using 3rd-party material.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
If you play with material from that module using the suggested optional rule(which should be required to use it IMO), then it balances out like how the Shadow Corruption in the Kobold Press stuff is supposed to work.
A DM should implement said rule, & similar rules in regards to spells from this module & others if balance is a concern. If you're playing strict RAW, then you shouldn't be using 3rd-party material.
I see this argument I see a lot to justify the poor balancing of third party content. I think it is an excuse for bad game design that does not actually match the reality of balance and leads to bad party dynamics.
On the game design front, it is no secret challenge ratings are a mess and start to break down a bit at level 10. Running official content with the RAW CR guidance results in underpowered encounters, requiring DMs to scale up monsters or add more monsters than CR dictates. Third party content does the first one - they scale up monsters to a more appropriate challenge for their CR value… and then undo that work by also scaling up players, resulting in the same balance disparity the more powerful monsters could have solved.
More importantly, however, by making their classes overpowered, they are effectively taking away player options or leading to feel bad moments in a campaign. In a party, it does not feel great to be playing something that uses official content, and then watch someone using broken, poorly designed content outshine others. While that also can be true in official content, with official players know that is at least part of the primary game. I’ve seen far greater complaints when it feels like something is being brought from outside the official game in, and then steamrolls official content.
I still buy third party content for the monsters, but I do not allow player-facing options unless they had first been vetted by me and, if necessary, toned down in power to match official content. I doubt I will let any of the Cthulhu spells into games - they are really, really badly balanced, and posts from the creator where they talked about choosing spell levels based on damage dealt (when damage is usually the least important element of a control spell), strongly indicated they did not understand how to price a spell.
If you play with material from that module using the suggested optional rule(which should be required to use it IMO), then it balances out like how the Shadow Corruption in the Kobold Press stuff is supposed to work.
A DM should implement said rule, & similar rules in regards to spells from this module & others if balance is a concern. If you're playing strict RAW, then you shouldn't be using 3rd-party material.
I see this argument I see a lot to justify the poor balancing of third party content. I think it is an excuse for bad game design that does not actually match the reality of balance and leads to bad party dynamics.
On the game design front, it is no secret challenge ratings are a mess and start to break down a bit at level 10. Running official content with the RAW CR guidance results in underpowered encounters, requiring DMs to scale up monsters or add more monsters than CR dictates. Third party content does the first one - they scale up monsters to a more appropriate challenge for their CR value… and then undo that work by also scaling up players, resulting in the same balance disparity the more powerful monsters could have solved.
More importantly, however, by making their classes overpowered, they are effectively taking away player options or leading to feel bad moments in a campaign. In a party, it does not feel great to be playing something that uses official content, and then watch someone using broken, poorly designed content outshine others. While that also can be true in official content, with official players know that is at least part of the primary game. I’ve seen far greater complaints when it feels like something is being brought from outside the official game in, and then steamrolls official content.
I still buy third party content for the monsters, but I do not allow player-facing options unless they had first been vetted by me and, if necessary, toned down in power to match official content. I doubt I will let any of the Cthulhu spells into games - they are really, really badly balanced, and posts from the creator where they talked about choosing spell levels based on damage dealt (when damage is usually the least important element of a control spell), strongly indicated they did not understand how to price a spell.
There is quite literally a built-in balancing option that is only unofficial because it's not in any of the core 3 books.
Mearls covered that.
He just wasn't likely allowed to make it mandatory.
Whether someone uses these spells in my games depend on 3 questions the players will be asked: 1. Why does your character take this spell in-game? 2. Why are you, as a player, choosing this spell out-of-game? 3. These kinds of spells have an in-game price to pay. Are you willing to honestly engage with such?
Those usually vet out people using them for a playstyle that may not be welcomed at my table if it turns from valid & benign to oneupmanship & showboating.
Same as people who try to abuse Kobold Press or other 3pp content, should a balancing agent be able to be played, regardless of whether Beyond supports it or not.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
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Ok, so lemme get this straight...
This spell potentially gives a target disadvantage on Strength-based attacks, cuts the target's speed in half and gives attacks against it advantage, and causes it to implode and die. All with NO SAVE. All from a single SECOND LEVEL spell?
Is it just me, or does this seem more like a 5th or 6th level spell?
Like most third-party content, everything from Cthulhu by Torchlight is deliberately overpowered and unbalanced, as a selling point.
If you play with material from that module using the suggested optional rule(which should be required to use it IMO), then it balances out like how the Shadow Corruption in the Kobold Press stuff is supposed to work.
A DM should implement said rule, & similar rules in regards to spells from this module & others if balance is a concern. If you're playing strict RAW, then you shouldn't be using 3rd-party material.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
Should definitly be much higher than 2nd level spell.
I see this argument I see a lot to justify the poor balancing of third party content. I think it is an excuse for bad game design that does not actually match the reality of balance and leads to bad party dynamics.
On the game design front, it is no secret challenge ratings are a mess and start to break down a bit at level 10. Running official content with the RAW CR guidance results in underpowered encounters, requiring DMs to scale up monsters or add more monsters than CR dictates. Third party content does the first one - they scale up monsters to a more appropriate challenge for their CR value… and then undo that work by also scaling up players, resulting in the same balance disparity the more powerful monsters could have solved.
More importantly, however, by making their classes overpowered, they are effectively taking away player options or leading to feel bad moments in a campaign. In a party, it does not feel great to be playing something that uses official content, and then watch someone using broken, poorly designed content outshine others. While that also can be true in official content, with official players know that is at least part of the primary game. I’ve seen far greater complaints when it feels like something is being brought from outside the official game in, and then steamrolls official content.
I still buy third party content for the monsters, but I do not allow player-facing options unless they had first been vetted by me and, if necessary, toned down in power to match official content. I doubt I will let any of the Cthulhu spells into games - they are really, really badly balanced, and posts from the creator where they talked about choosing spell levels based on damage dealt (when damage is usually the least important element of a control spell), strongly indicated they did not understand how to price a spell.
There is quite literally a built-in balancing option that is only unofficial because it's not in any of the core 3 books.
Mearls covered that.
He just wasn't likely allowed to make it mandatory.
Whether someone uses these spells in my games depend on 3 questions the players will be asked:
1. Why does your character take this spell in-game?
2. Why are you, as a player, choosing this spell out-of-game?
3. These kinds of spells have an in-game price to pay. Are you willing to honestly engage with such?
Those usually vet out people using them for a playstyle that may not be welcomed at my table if it turns from valid & benign to oneupmanship & showboating.
Same as people who try to abuse Kobold Press or other 3pp content, should a balancing agent be able to be played, regardless of whether Beyond supports it or not.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.