Strixhaven, Theros, and Ravnica's books are ways to play those worlds in the D&D ruleset, not ways to connect them to the overall cosmology. Completely different things.
I dont have Ravnica or Theroes so I cant say but I am pretty sure they are material primes in the D&D multiverse. Which Faerun is also. So they are in the same cosmology. Strihaven eplicitly tells you that you can get to it from Faerun or any other world your playing on usually. The ruleset defines the D&D cosmology, so I would say they are part of the same cosmology.
Nope, Ravnica, Theros, and Strixhaven officially exist within their own multiverse (called the Blind Eternities). The Strixhaven book mentions the Forgotten Realms twice—once in discussing how you could move Strixhaven from it's core setting to the Forgotten Realms or Eberron:
For the purposes of D&D, though, you can place Strixhaven wherever it best fits the needs of your campaign. It could be in a world of your own creation, in a published D&D setting (such as the Forgotten Realms or Eberron), in the planar cosmopolis of Sigil, or in an interplanar nexus that allows it to draw students from across the Material Plane or the entire multiverse.
And the second time is to contextualise how magic works in Strixhaven in terms D&D players would be more familiar with:
As described in the Player’s Handbook, magic suffuses all existence in the worlds of D&D. In the Forgotten Realms, scholars describe the fabric of magic as a Weave that allows spellcasters to interact with the world’s underlying magical reality. In Arcavios, that fabric is knotted and tangled in some locations, creating a phenomenon called snarls.
The multiverse of Magic the Gathering is fundamentally incompatible with that of D&D, at least up until recently. In MtG, all the planes exist within the Blind Eternities, an extra dimensional that is infinitely inhospitable to all life with the exception of Eldrazi and those with the planeswalker spark. In fact, the storyline from Kaladesh through to War of the Spark focuses on this fact because the big bad is trying to find a way to transport armies through the Blind Eternities without them melting.
More recently, events have created a series of rare portals called Omen Gates that allow travel between planes without a planeswalker spark, but they're still limited to planes that exist within the Blind Eternities.
Now, this is not to say things couldn't change in the future. WotC recently released a set called "Edge of Eternities" that seems to take place at the edge of the multiverse, suggesting the Blind Eternities has a boundary. Given that, it could be that it exists within a demiplane like Ravenloft and the Domains of Dread. Maybe Omen Gates could be used to reach the D&D multiverse some way. But as it stands, nothing officially and explicitly places either setting in direct connection with the other.
As I am not very familiar with MtGs multiverse I bow to your superior knowledge on this. Nevertheless, what I said holds true for the traditional D&D settings, and something being connected to the Forgotten Realms through a portal or whatever doesent make it part of that setting. So maybe Ravenloft is a better example, they do share the same cosmology, have access to each other but are not the same setting.
I think maybe the term setting is tripping you up in understanding what I'm saying. Let's maybe establish terms:
Plane (D&D) - a cosmologically distinct location, often physically distinction. For example, the material plane or the elemental plane of fire
Setting (D&D) - a narrative location that spans part of, all of, or several planes. For example the Forgotten Realms is a setting that takes place primarily with the material plane in certain regions of the world of Toril, but also extends to other planes. For example Baldur's Gate - Descent into Avernus is a Forgotten Realms set adventure that extends beyond Toril and the Material Plane into the Nine Hells. Settings can overlap, for example an adventure might be set in one Setting (such as Eberron) but take you to locations visited in a Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance setting-based adventure
Plane (MtG) - a physical location within the Blind Eternities, bounded by that dimension.
Blind Eternities (MtG) - an extra-dimensional locale, travel through which is impossible unless 1) You're a planeswalker, 2) You're an eldrazi, 3) You use an Omen Gate, or 4) You use a particularly powerful and legendary artifact such as the airship Weatherlight
Multiverse (Both) - The encompassing term for all the Settings and Planes (D&D) or the Blind Eternities, all Planes within, and the extra-planar space-like boundary locale found in Edge of Eternities (MtG)
D&D and Magic the Gathering exist in distinctly separate, unconnected, and different multiverses with their own different and directly contradictory rules concerning inter-planar travel. MtG doesn't have the concept of settings, the closest would be their narrative arcs, previously known as "blocks" and now just referred to as storylines. The notion of how settings in D&D works, and how two "settings" can be connected but distinct is irrelevant to MtG.
Yeah that is very helpful. I was using and usually use setting(D&D) in a narrower definition, so if someone says Forgotten Realms that is just everything on Toril or maybe even just Faerun and Adventures like Baldurs Gate: Descent into Avernus or even the old H4 have setting crossovers. I realize that definition is kind of hard to nail down and I really like your narrative definition above. So what we have is that Eberron and Greyhawk and Ravenloft and FR share the same cosmology. And it seems that the new D&D version of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor does also. So the excitement here is not about it being added to FR but about the two multiverses being mixed up? How do MtG crossovers like the FR set treat these issues?
Yeah that is very helpful. I was using and usually use setting(D&D) in a narrower definition, so if someone says Forgotten Realms that is just everything on Toril or maybe even just Faerun and Adventures like Baldurs Gate: Descent into Avernus or even the old H4 have setting crossovers. I realize that definition is kind of hard to nail down and I really like your narrative definition above. So what we have is that Eberron and Greyhawk and Ravenloft and FR share the same cosmology. And it seems that the new D&D version of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor does also. So the excitement here is not about it being added to FR but about the two multiverses being mixed up? How do MtG crossovers like the FR set treat these issues?
In general: They don't. Like I stated above in this thread, the M:tG books are generally guidance on how to run stuff in those worlds under the 5e D&D ruleset, not how to mix it into the main continuity. There may be a few sentences talking about ways DMs can mix them into other settings for ease of use, but those are never officially placing the M:tG settings anywhere in the D&D settings.
That's what makes the handling of Lorwyn-Shadowmoor so strange. Especially since we know Lorwyn-Shadowmoor is part of the normal M:tG multiverse, confirmed as recently as April 2023 when they got invaded in March of the Machine.
I'll note one similarity between D&D and Magic: While not 1:1 in how they're described, the Blind Eternities and the Far Realm are close enough that understanding one can help explain the other.
I would disagree with that. The Far Realms is a region that can support life (and "life") but anything that enters that realm cannot do so without being fundamentally changed. Any being capable of planar travel could do so and quite reasonably survive/"survive".
The Blind Eternities on the other hand is completely immiscible to life in almost all forms, a roiling sea of planar energies that pull living matter apart at the seams. Only the Eldrazi—who are seemingly native to the Blind Eternities itself—and those with the planeswalker spark can pass through the space.
The Far Realms is an eldritch realm of mind warping madness, Lovecraftian in nature. The Blind Eternities is like trying to walk on the surface of the sun, almost mundane in its hostile environment.
Yeah that is very helpful. I was using and usually use setting(D&D) in a narrower definition, so if someone says Forgotten Realms that is just everything on Toril or maybe even just Faerun and Adventures like Baldurs Gate: Descent into Avernus or even the old H4 have setting crossovers. I realize that definition is kind of hard to nail down and I really like your narrative definition above. So what we have is that Eberron and Greyhawk and Ravenloft and FR share the same cosmology. And it seems that the new D&D version of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor does also. So the excitement here is not about it being added to FR but about the two multiverses being mixed up? How do MtG crossovers like the FR set treat these issues?
In general: They don't. Like I stated above in this thread, the M:tG books are generally guidance on how to run stuff in those worlds under the 5e D&D ruleset, not how to mix it into the main continuity. There may be a few sentences talking about ways DMs can mix them into other settings for ease of use, but those are never officially placing the M:tG settings anywhere in the D&D settings.
That's what makes the handling of Lorwyn-Shadowmoor so strange. Especially since we know Lorwyn-Shadowmoor is part of the normal M:tG multiverse, confirmed as recently as April 2023 when they got invaded in March of the Machine.
Reading the product page, I think this Lorwyn book isn't the Lorwyn at least in the context it's being sold. I think what it is is a double-duty product:
Usage case 1—Use it to run a domain of delight called Lorwyn-Shadowmoore that just happens to be incredibly similar to the D&D dual planes of the same names.
Usage case 2—Use it to run the MtG planes of Lorwyn and Shadowmoore, completely disconnected from the D&D multiverse
Changing Lorwyn and Shadowmoore from an entire pair of interwoven planes to a domain of delight within D&D canon just seems too disruptive to make any sense. It seems to me much more likely that they had the Lorwyn-Shadowmoore product lined up for a slightly different release strategy and pivoted it to fit into the FR book bundle. Think of it more like how Strixhaven says "you can take this setting out of the MtG multiverse and transplant it into these D&D settings".
Yeah that is very helpful. I was using and usually use setting(D&D) in a narrower definition, so if someone says Forgotten Realms that is just everything on Toril or maybe even just Faerun and Adventures like Baldurs Gate: Descent into Avernus or even the old H4 have setting crossovers. I realize that definition is kind of hard to nail down and I really like your narrative definition above. So what we have is that Eberron and Greyhawk and Ravenloft and FR share the same cosmology. And it seems that the new D&D version of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor does also. So the excitement here is not about it being added to FR but about the two multiverses being mixed up? How do MtG crossovers like the FR set treat these issues?
In general: They don't. Like I stated above in this thread, the M:tG books are generally guidance on how to run stuff in those worlds under the 5e D&D ruleset, not how to mix it into the main continuity. There may be a few sentences talking about ways DMs can mix them into other settings for ease of use, but those are never officially placing the M:tG settings anywhere in the D&D settings.
That's what makes the handling of Lorwyn-Shadowmoor so strange. Especially since we know Lorwyn-Shadowmoor is part of the normal M:tG multiverse, confirmed as recently as April 2023 when they got invaded in March of the Machine.
Reading the product page, I think this Lorwyn book isn't the Lorwyn at least in the context it's being sold. I think what it is is a double-duty product:
Usage case 1—Use it to run a domain of delight called Lorwyn-Shadowmoore that just happens to be incredibly similar to the D&D dual planes of the same names.
Usage case 2—Use it to run the MtG planes of Lorwyn and Shadowmoore, completely disconnected from the D&D multiverse
Changing Lorwyn and Shadowmoore from an entire pair of interwoven planes to a domain of delight within MtG canon just seems too disruptive to make any sense. It seems to me much more likely that they had the Lorwyn-Shadowmoore product lined up for a slightly different release strategy and pivoted it to fit into the FR book bundle. Think of it more like how Strixhaven says "you can take this setting out of the MtG multiverse and transplant it into these D&D settings".
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.
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Yeah that is very helpful. I was using and usually use setting(D&D) in a narrower definition, so if someone says Forgotten Realms that is just everything on Toril or maybe even just Faerun and Adventures like Baldurs Gate: Descent into Avernus or even the old H4 have setting crossovers. I realize that definition is kind of hard to nail down and I really like your narrative definition above. So what we have is that Eberron and Greyhawk and Ravenloft and FR share the same cosmology. And it seems that the new D&D version of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor does also. So the excitement here is not about it being added to FR but about the two multiverses being mixed up? How do MtG crossovers like the FR set treat these issues?
In general: They don't. Like I stated above in this thread, the M:tG books are generally guidance on how to run stuff in those worlds under the 5e D&D ruleset, not how to mix it into the main continuity. There may be a few sentences talking about ways DMs can mix them into other settings for ease of use, but those are never officially placing the M:tG settings anywhere in the D&D settings.
That's what makes the handling of Lorwyn-Shadowmoor so strange. Especially since we know Lorwyn-Shadowmoor is part of the normal M:tG multiverse, confirmed as recently as April 2023 when they got invaded in March of the Machine.
I would disagree with that. The Far Realms is a region that can support life (and "life") but anything that enters that realm cannot do so without being fundamentally changed. Any being capable of planar travel could do so and quite reasonably survive/"survive".
The Blind Eternities on the other hand is completely immiscible to life in almost all forms, a roiling sea of planar energies that pull living matter apart at the seams. Only the Eldrazi—who are seemingly native to the Blind Eternities itself—and those with the planeswalker spark can pass through the space.
The Far Realms is an eldritch realm of mind warping madness, Lovecraftian in nature. The Blind Eternities is like trying to walk on the surface of the sun, almost mundane in its hostile environment.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Reading the product page, I think this Lorwyn book isn't the Lorwyn at least in the context it's being sold. I think what it is is a double-duty product:
Changing Lorwyn and Shadowmoore from an entire pair of interwoven planes to a domain of delight within D&D canon just seems too disruptive to make any sense. It seems to me much more likely that they had the Lorwyn-Shadowmoore product lined up for a slightly different release strategy and pivoted it to fit into the FR book bundle. Think of it more like how Strixhaven says "you can take this setting out of the MtG multiverse and transplant it into these D&D settings".
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you.