Played 3.0/3.5 a bit, lots of 2014 5E, a bit of Baldur's Gate 1-3, first time playing 2024 coming up. Campaign with be semi-gritty, but also will have a high(er) magic item quantity and quality. Maybe boons as well, (before level 16). But I have decided that I want to go martial - melee. I play a lot of 2014 Gloom Stalker/Multi Class, Warlock/Druids, a few sorcerers, clerics, and some other stuff - but I've never had the chance to really sit and play a old fashioned poke-em-with-the-pointy end.
Rolled stats.Starting at level 4, with the intention of going to 20. DM (team of 2) is quite good at balancing out encounters with regards to high power characters - so a little munchkin min-maxing won't be a problem. BUT, I do still want to RP AND build the character as intended. 5 players.
I've done a little research, via google. It seems that Berserker GWM barb is the best DPR? But I don't want to be a Barbarian starting out, per my character backstory and arc. Eventually (2+) levels of barbarian will happen, but I want to know the general opinion and DPR potential of [now nerfed] 2024 Paladin, using 2014 Oathbreaker subclass. Things I know. Smite got hard nerfed. GWM is now flat damage based on prof, with no attack roll decreasing. Weapon Mastery properties, are a thing - and Maul (Topple) and Greatsword (Graze) seem like fine combo. I expect to at least have a mid-tier Belt of Giant Strength at some point, so Topple should be very fine indeed and I don't have to go higher than 15 Str at the start.
Character's basic backstory is that he started off as a Bodyguard (Paladin, Oath of...whatever) for a minor 5th or 6th line Noble kid. Kid turned out to be a right awful piece of work (think Joffrey, and worse than that.) My character offs him after finding the kid in the act of horrendous stomach-churning horribleness. Breaking his oath (legal and divine,) and becoming an Oathbreaker (which I have done some minor reflavouring work as Ronnin-esque.)
So, I'm looking at Oathbreaker to 8, 2 levels of barbarian (for Reckless Attack and a little bit of Rage for flavour,) and them maybe his desire for more magical power later on pushes him down the path of learning wizardly magic (mostly for Shield, and Haste) for 5 levels. Then whatever 5 levels of something after that.
15(14) / 9 / 16 / 10 / 16 / 20 (18) Human, Skilled, GWM 2024 Lang: Common, Draconic, Dwarvish, Elvish, Sylven, per DM advice/input. Skill Profs: Animal Handling, Arcana, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Perception, Persuasion. (Seemed like a good mix for a bodyguard type character to know threats, magic, handle a horse (riding or carriage.)
Maul, and Greatsword Plate armor, with one-hand weapon and shield backup.
Just a note, Oathbreaker is not currently in 2024. That generally means that you're free to use the 2014 stuff and it sounds like you've done at least some work in that regard, but I'd go through it a couple times to make sure that it does what you want it to do within the new rules. That said, unless you use every spell slot on smites, paladins are just as half-caster as rangers. When I think pure martial, I'm thinking champion/battlemaster, barbs, and thief/assassin.
Just a note, Oathbreaker is not currently in 2024. That generally means that you're free to use the 2014 stuff and it sounds like you've done at least some work in that regard, but I'd go through it a couple times to make sure that it does what you want it to do within the new rules. That said, unless you use every spell slot on smites, paladins are just as half-caster as rangers. When I think pure martial, I'm thinking champion/battlemaster, barbs, and thief/assassin.
[Redacted]
I'm not looking for pure martial, and Oathbreaker's Aura of Hate looks pretty good. I know the limited spell slots and smiting will also greatly limit my spell abilities - but the list of spells I'm seeing on the 2024 Paladin ain't much. I've gone over Oathbreaker with my DMs for 2024 and there's nothing in it that conflicts with 2014 as far as we can tell (it will also be a join first 2024 adventure for us all.)
I'm not interested in playing Rogue, other than as a multiclass with Ranger (gloomstalker-phantom is fun in 2014,) or Cleric (Rogue-Twilight is fairly fun, just for bonus action dash/disengage/hide allowing a lot of flexibility to clerics) And Fighter is just a little to basic. I just want to make sure that I'm not doing something to inefficient.
Smite was never great unless fighting a big solo. Divine Favor is generally better against numerous foes, bless helps the whole party, hold person wreaks absolute havoc if they fail their save and don’t underestimate weapon masteries , the “free” fighting style, or the utility spells.
The 2024 subclasses are generally better overall. I had been building a Barbarian/Paladin multiclass but when we switched to 2024, there was no need to multiclass, mechanically. You also get more consistent improvements by level in 2024. Plus, Barbarian is kind of pointless if you’re going to wear plate because the class benefits don’t work in heavy armor.
Oathbreaker is also awkward as your description is of a Paladin actually living up to his oath regardless of social cost. Your description is more Oath of Devotion, which also benefits greatly from high charisma. If you eventually want become an “oathbreaker” in flavor, multiclass into warlock, though sorcerer would probably also work, from a magical/mechanical standpoint.
Smite was never great unless fighting a big solo. Divine Favor is generally better against numerous foes, bless helps the whole party, hold person wreaks absolute havoc if they fail their save and don’t underestimate weapon masteries , the “free” fighting style, or the utility spells.
The 2024 subclasses are generally better overall. I had been building a Barbarian/Paladin multiclass but when we switched to 2024, there was no need to multiclass, mechanically. You also get more consistent improvements by level in 2024. Plus, Barbarian is kind of pointless if you’re going to wear plate because the class benefits don’t work in heavy armor.
Oathbreaker is also awkward as your description is of a Paladin actually living up to his oath regardless of social cost. Your description is more Oath of Devotion, which also benefits greatly from high charisma. If you eventually want become an “oathbreaker” in flavor, multiclass into warlock, though sorcerer would probably also work, from a magical/mechanical standpoint.
Yea, the Oathbreaker line is a little weaker than I'd like, which is why I reflavored it to Ronin.
my primary goal is aura of hate, and hitting with advantage with level 2 barb (rage i wont be doing often, if at all, other than some special RP centriq setting.)
I will put some thought in for divine favour and bless, never really was that happy with Bless in the past. And I feel like Divine Favour drops off pretty quickly.
Check with your DM on oathbreaker, it was in the DMG for a reason. Some don’t allow it. And note paladins in general don’t work like they used to. They are no longer required to have a god involved, or have any anlogn restrictions. Depending on the original oath, killing the kid might actually have been following it rather than breaking it.
Additionally, it’s not just breaking the oath. They are meant to be canonically evil: An Oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power.
So unless you were killing the kid as part of a larger plan, you wouldn’t necessarily be an oathbreaker. (Of course, this is between you and your DM, I’m not trying to judge. Just pointing out the issue.)
Besides all that, Oathbreakers can actively work against the party. Aura of hate applies to any fiends and undead. Even ones you may be fighting against. If you’re just looking to squeeze some mileage out the cha bonus, a couple level for hexblade warlock is usually the classic way to go.
Also note, you’re saying you don’t want to rage much, which is good, because you can’t in heavy armor. And you can’t cast while raging, so (by ‘24 rules) no smites while raging.
Triple classing is really never a good idea. You’ll have lots of low level powers and spells to choose from, but still only one action per round. And you won’t have any of the higher level powers.
That could actually be a neat dynamic for everyone to think they are an Oathbreaker when they aren’t!
Also, the one sort of exception to Barbarians in heavy armor is the Totem Barbarian that gets resistances regardless of armor. I still remember a Homebrew race from 2014 my DM made based on the Originals vampires that let you pick an item to be proficient in, so I picked Plate Armor and went Totem Berserker. Having said that, you still need a way to learn heavy armor and you do still miss out on a bunch.
Check with your DM on oathbreaker, it was in the DMG for a reason. Some don’t allow it. And note paladins in general don’t work like they used to. They are no longer required to have a god involved, or have any anlogn restrictions. Depending on the original oath, killing the kid might actually have been following it rather than breaking it.
Additionally, it’s not just breaking the oath. They are meant to be canonically evil: An Oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power.
So unless you were killing the kid as part of a larger plan, you wouldn’t necessarily be an oathbreaker. (Of course, this is between you and your DM, I’m not trying to judge. Just pointing out the issue.)
Besides all that, Oathbreakers can actively work against the party. Aura of hate applies to any fiends and undead. Even ones you may be fighting against. If you’re just looking to squeeze some mileage out the cha bonus, a couple level for hexblade warlock is usually the classic way to go.
Also note, you’re saying you don’t want to rage much, which is good, because you can’t in heavy armor. And you can’t cast while raging, so (by ‘24 rules) no smites while raging.
Triple classing is really never a good idea. You’ll have lots of low level powers and spells to choose from, but still only one action per round. And you won’t have any of the higher level powers.
Again, Reflavored oathbreaker (to Ronin). And 2 levels of barb are for Reckless Attack primarily. Triple classing may or may not happen, Im basing the decision on the other campaign I am in with the DM were a large degree of utility is required from ALL characters, as well as reasonable combat power.
Check with your DM on oathbreaker, it was in the DMG for a reason. Some don’t allow it. And note paladins in general don’t work like they used to. They are no longer required to have a god involved, or have any anlogn restrictions. Depending on the original oath, killing the kid might actually have been following it rather than breaking it.
Additionally, it’s not just breaking the oath. They are meant to be canonically evil: An Oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power.
So unless you were killing the kid as part of a larger plan, you wouldn’t necessarily be an oathbreaker. (Of course, this is between you and your DM, I’m not trying to judge. Just pointing out the issue.)
Besides all that, Oathbreakers can actively work against the party. Aura of hate applies to any fiends and undead. Even ones you may be fighting against. If you’re just looking to squeeze some mileage out the cha bonus, a couple level for hexblade warlock is usually the classic way to go.
Also note, you’re saying you don’t want to rage much, which is good, because you can’t in heavy armor. And you can’t cast while raging, so (by ‘24 rules) no smites while raging.
Triple classing is really never a good idea. You’ll have lots of low level powers and spells to choose from, but still only one action per round. And you won’t have any of the higher level powers.
Again, Reflavored oathbreaker (to Ronin). And 2 levels of barb are for Reckless Attack primarily. Triple classing may or may not happen, Im basing the decision on the other campaign I am in with the DM were a large degree of utility is required from ALL characters, as well as reasonable combat power.
Even with the flavor change, that doesn’t change the fact that you’ll be buffing any undead and friends you end up fighting.
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Played 3.0/3.5 a bit, lots of 2014 5E, a bit of Baldur's Gate 1-3, first time playing 2024 coming up. Campaign with be semi-gritty, but also will have a high(er) magic item quantity and quality. Maybe boons as well, (before level 16). But I have decided that I want to go martial - melee. I play a lot of 2014 Gloom Stalker/Multi Class, Warlock/Druids, a few sorcerers, clerics, and some other stuff - but I've never had the chance to really sit and play a old fashioned poke-em-with-the-pointy end.
Rolled stats. Starting at level 4, with the intention of going to 20. DM (team of 2) is quite good at balancing out encounters with regards to high power characters - so a little munchkin min-maxing won't be a problem. BUT, I do still want to RP AND build the character as intended. 5 players.
I've done a little research, via google. It seems that Berserker GWM barb is the best DPR? But I don't want to be a Barbarian starting out, per my character backstory and arc. Eventually (2+) levels of barbarian will happen, but I want to know the general opinion and DPR potential of [now nerfed] 2024 Paladin, using 2014 Oathbreaker subclass. Things I know. Smite got hard nerfed. GWM is now flat damage based on prof, with no attack roll decreasing. Weapon Mastery properties, are a thing - and Maul (Topple) and Greatsword (Graze) seem like fine combo. I expect to at least have a mid-tier Belt of Giant Strength at some point, so Topple should be very fine indeed and I don't have to go higher than 15 Str at the start.
Character's basic backstory is that he started off as a Bodyguard (Paladin, Oath of...whatever) for a minor 5th or 6th line Noble kid. Kid turned out to be a right awful piece of work (think Joffrey, and worse than that.) My character offs him after finding the kid in the act of horrendous stomach-churning horribleness. Breaking his oath (legal and divine,) and becoming an Oathbreaker (which I have done some minor reflavouring work as Ronnin-esque.)
So, I'm looking at Oathbreaker to 8, 2 levels of barbarian (for Reckless Attack and a little bit of Rage for flavour,) and them maybe his desire for more magical power later on pushes him down the path of learning wizardly magic (mostly for Shield, and Haste) for 5 levels. Then whatever 5 levels of something after that.
15(14) / 9 / 16 / 10 / 16 / 20 (18)
Human, Skilled, GWM 2024
Lang: Common, Draconic, Dwarvish, Elvish, Sylven, per DM advice/input.
Skill Profs: Animal Handling, Arcana, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Medicine, Perception, Persuasion. (Seemed like a good mix for a bodyguard type character to know threats, magic, handle a horse (riding or carriage.)
Maul, and Greatsword
Plate armor, with one-hand weapon and shield backup.
2014 5E mostly
3.5 maybe.
Just a note, Oathbreaker is not currently in 2024. That generally means that you're free to use the 2014 stuff and it sounds like you've done at least some work in that regard, but I'd go through it a couple times to make sure that it does what you want it to do within the new rules. That said, unless you use every spell slot on smites, paladins are just as half-caster as rangers. When I think pure martial, I'm thinking champion/battlemaster, barbs, and thief/assassin.
[Redacted]
I'm not looking for pure martial, and Oathbreaker's Aura of Hate looks pretty good. I know the limited spell slots and smiting will also greatly limit my spell abilities - but the list of spells I'm seeing on the 2024 Paladin ain't much. I've gone over Oathbreaker with my DMs for 2024 and there's nothing in it that conflicts with 2014 as far as we can tell (it will also be a join first 2024 adventure for us all.)
I'm not interested in playing Rogue, other than as a multiclass with Ranger (gloomstalker-phantom is fun in 2014,) or Cleric (Rogue-Twilight is fairly fun, just for bonus action dash/disengage/hide allowing a lot of flexibility to clerics) And Fighter is just a little to basic.
I just want to make sure that I'm not doing something to inefficient.
2014 5E mostly
3.5 maybe.
Smite was never great unless fighting a big solo. Divine Favor is generally better against numerous foes, bless helps the whole party, hold person wreaks absolute havoc if they fail their save and don’t underestimate weapon masteries , the “free” fighting style, or the utility spells.
The 2024 subclasses are generally better overall. I had been building a Barbarian/Paladin multiclass but when we switched to 2024, there was no need to multiclass, mechanically. You also get more consistent improvements by level in 2024. Plus, Barbarian is kind of pointless if you’re going to wear plate because the class benefits don’t work in heavy armor.
Oathbreaker is also awkward as your description is of a Paladin actually living up to his oath regardless of social cost. Your description is more Oath of Devotion, which also benefits greatly from high charisma. If you eventually want become an “oathbreaker” in flavor, multiclass into warlock, though sorcerer would probably also work, from a magical/mechanical standpoint.
Yea, the Oathbreaker line is a little weaker than I'd like, which is why I reflavored it to Ronin.
my primary goal is aura of hate, and hitting with advantage with level 2 barb (rage i wont be doing often, if at all, other than some special RP centriq setting.)
I will put some thought in for divine favour and bless, never really was that happy with Bless in the past. And I feel like Divine Favour drops off pretty quickly.
2014 5E mostly
3.5 maybe.
Check with your DM on oathbreaker, it was in the DMG for a reason. Some don’t allow it. And note paladins in general don’t work like they used to. They are no longer required to have a god involved, or have any anlogn restrictions. Depending on the original oath, killing the kid might actually have been following it rather than breaking it.
Additionally, it’s not just breaking the oath. They are meant to be canonically evil: An Oathbreaker is a paladin who breaks his or her sacred oaths to pursue some dark ambition or serve an evil power.
So unless you were killing the kid as part of a larger plan, you wouldn’t necessarily be an oathbreaker. (Of course, this is between you and your DM, I’m not trying to judge. Just pointing out the issue.)
Besides all that, Oathbreakers can actively work against the party. Aura of hate applies to any fiends and undead. Even ones you may be fighting against. If you’re just looking to squeeze some mileage out the cha bonus, a couple level for hexblade warlock is usually the classic way to go.
Also note, you’re saying you don’t want to rage much, which is good, because you can’t in heavy armor. And you can’t cast while raging, so (by ‘24 rules) no smites while raging.
Triple classing is really never a good idea. You’ll have lots of low level powers and spells to choose from, but still only one action per round. And you won’t have any of the higher level powers.
That could actually be a neat dynamic for everyone to think they are an Oathbreaker when they aren’t!
Also, the one sort of exception to Barbarians in heavy armor is the Totem Barbarian that gets resistances regardless of armor. I still remember a Homebrew race from 2014 my DM made based on the Originals vampires that let you pick an item to be proficient in, so I picked Plate Armor and went Totem Berserker. Having said that, you still need a way to learn heavy armor and you do still miss out on a bunch.
Again,
Reflavored oathbreaker (to Ronin). And 2 levels of barb are for Reckless Attack primarily.
Triple classing may or may not happen, Im basing the decision on the other campaign I am in with the DM were a large degree of utility is required from ALL characters, as well as reasonable combat power.
2014 5E mostly
3.5 maybe.
I'm not barbarianing for Rage(it will be there for flavor on occasion (rare rare rare occasion) its 2 levels for Reckless Attack.
2014 5E mostly
3.5 maybe.
Even with the flavor change, that doesn’t change the fact that you’ll be buffing any undead and friends you end up fighting.