The Warlock Invocation "Lessons of the First Ones" allows for the Warlock to gain an Origin Feat. Dragonmarks are not technically listed as origin feats but they are achievable with a background in the same manner as an origin feat. They are however listed (in DDB) as being acquirable with an ASI level. Just wondering if anyone else had thoughts on this???
The Warlock Invocation "Lessons of the First Ones" allows for the Warlock to gain an Origin Feat. Dragonmarks are not technically listed as origin feats but they are achievable with a background in the same manner as an origin feat. They are however listed (in DDB) as being acquirable with an ASI level. Just wondering if anyone else had thoughts on this???
No, because they're not Origin Feats. They are very specifically and explicitly defined in the rules as being a different category of feat.
They can be acquired at ASI levels because those class features allow you to take any feat that you qualify for and don't limit you to a specific category. The new Eberron book even provides suggestions for how acquiring these feats at higher levels can be worked into a story thematically, so it's quite clear that this is intentional, not just a side effect of how they're implemented in D&D Beyond.
Just because you can take them at whatever level doesn’t mean you SHOULD . You miss out on the classic “half-feats” or asi’s that boost your stats. That’s part of why I don’t get why anyone would take an extra fighter stance instead of a feat/ASI… unless multiclassing wasn’t allowed, but at that point I’d just play something else.
No, they are not a standard origin feat that can be justified through training which lessons of the first one could teach you, they are a bloodline feat that manifests with a magical mark. I really hate how they tied them to backgrounds with stats, or your level 4 feat. Absolutely terrible system. They should have had some generic background with any stat, any dragon mark to cover people who had the mark but not part of the clan. They even imply people like that exist who are then the clans try to recruit them fast, but they only allow it with a level 4 feat which thematically kind of goes to counter to it. So as a DM if I were to make a houserule, it would be on the backgrounds not on lessons of the first one. so if you want one, and the stats don't really line up with your class like 1/2 of them wont just talk with your DM on that end. Lessons of the first one would make it too easy.
No, they are not a standard origin feat that can be justified through training which lessons of the first one could teach you, they are a bloodline feat that manifests with a magical mark. I really hate how they tied them to backgrounds with stats, or your level 4 feat. Absolutely terrible system. They should have had some generic background with any stat, any dragon mark to cover people who had the mark but not part of the clan. They even imply people like that exist who are then the clans try to recruit them fast, but they only allow it with a level 4 feat which thematically kind of goes to counter to it. So as a DM if I were to make a houserule, it would be on the backgrounds not on lessons of the first one. so if you want one, and the stats don't really line up with your class like 1/2 of them wont just talk with your DM on that end. Lessons of the first one would make it too easy.
There's nothing in the rules saying that the dragonmark feats have to be taken with the backgrounds they're associated with in the book. This is exactly the kind of thing custom backgrounds, which are already part of the rules, are intended for.
No, they are not a standard origin feat that can be justified through training which lessons of the first one could teach you, they are a bloodline feat that manifests with a magical mark. I really hate how they tied them to backgrounds with stats, or your level 4 feat. Absolutely terrible system. They should have had some generic background with any stat, any dragon mark to cover people who had the mark but not part of the clan. They even imply people like that exist who are then the clans try to recruit them fast, but they only allow it with a level 4 feat which thematically kind of goes to counter to it. So as a DM if I were to make a houserule, it would be on the backgrounds not on lessons of the first one. so if you want one, and the stats don't really line up with your class like 1/2 of them wont just talk with your DM on that end. Lessons of the first one would make it too easy.
There's nothing in the rules saying that the dragonmark feats have to be taken with the backgrounds they're associated with in the book. This is exactly the kind of thing custom backgrounds, which are already part of the rules, are intended for.
"The fourteen that represent dragonmarked heirs offer Dragonmark feats rather than Origin feats; the Dragonmark feats appear at the end of the chapter. Choosing one of these backgrounds is the only way to acquire a Dragonmark feat at level 1"
There is a difference between "Origin Feat" and "a feat you can get at level 1/charavter creation." Origin Feat is an Explicit and Exhaustive list of ten feats Enumerated in the 2024 players handbook. They are: Alert, crafter, healer, lucky, magic initiate, musician, savage attacker, skilled, tavern brawler, tough.
2024 warlock invocation lessons of the first ones specifically limits the invocation to Origin Feats, so thats all the rules allow.
If you look at some of the backgrounds that come with feats, such as strixhaven backgrounds, those backgrounds come with extremely powerful feats that are intended to be only allowed as a charavter bavkgr9und in a strixhaven campaign where every player gets one to keep it balanced.
The Warlock Invocation "Lessons of the First Ones" allows for the Warlock to gain an Origin Feat. Dragonmarks are not technically listed as origin feats but they are achievable with a background in the same manner as an origin feat. They are however listed (in DDB) as being acquirable with an ASI level. Just wondering if anyone else had thoughts on this???
you're going to get a lot of noes here, so I will counter a yes, under very very specific situations.
First we look at the rules:
Lessons of the First Ones
Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock
You have received knowledge from an elder entity of the multiverse, allowing you to gain one Origin feat of your choice.
Repeatable. You can gain this invocation more than once. Each time you do so, choose a different Origin feat.
---
Dragonmarks are mysterious and magical symbols that appear on the skin of some people across Khorvaire. The twelve established dragonmarks are tied to specific family lines, and the scions of those families work hard at consolidating the power of the marks in order to maximize the profit and influence they gain from them.
--- In the lore of Eberron dragonmarks could manifest at any point in life, and sometimes could jump to races not always associated with a specific dragonmark. Also family genetics has a lot to do with it, and the elf manifesting a dragonmarrk seen usually on humans probably meant they have a human ancestor in their family line. (not that 5e points this out)
So technically a dragonmark is not an origin feat nor a typical asi feat, as such RAW and RAI say no, but going on world lore and setting lore, there are ways to cause a bloodline to manifest. Hinted at in deep lore BTW. I would as a DM allow this if your patron was a Dragon or a Rakshasa who follows the dragon prophecies. The Dragonmark would be picked by me as DM and would be a manifest of a long lost branch of your family line. It would have to be Roleplayed out, with a tabboo dark ceromony to trigger the dragonmark.
Note as I usually don't do evil campaigns and I generally do not allow evil characters besides NPCs you are going to have to convince me through roleplay that you can pull this level of evil off.
So yes, I would allow it under near impossible conditions.
There is a difference between "Origin Feat" and "a feat you can get at level 1/charavter creation." Origin Feat is an Explicit and Exhaustive list of ten feats Enumerated in the 2024 players handbook. They are: Alert, crafter, healer, lucky, magic initiate, musician, savage attacker, skilled, tavern brawler, tough.
Point of order, there are actually Origin feats outside the PHB - see Heroes of Forgotten Realms and Astarion's Book of Hungers. But I otherwise agree that the Eberron dragonmark feats are not part of that set despite being available in backgrounds at level 1.
No, they are not a standard origin feat that can be justified through training which lessons of the first one could teach you, they are a bloodline feat that manifests with a magical mark. I really hate how they tied them to backgrounds with stats, or your level 4 feat. Absolutely terrible system. They should have had some generic background with any stat, any dragon mark to cover people who had the mark but not part of the clan. They even imply people like that exist who are then the clans try to recruit them fast, but they only allow it with a level 4 feat which thematically kind of goes to counter to it. So as a DM if I were to make a houserule, it would be on the backgrounds not on lessons of the first one. so if you want one, and the stats don't really line up with your class like 1/2 of them wont just talk with your DM on that end. Lessons of the first one would make it too easy.
There's nothing in the rules saying that the dragonmark feats have to be taken with the backgrounds they're associated with in the book. This is exactly the kind of thing custom backgrounds, which are already part of the rules, are intended for.
The rules on custom backgrounds explicitly state that they come with an origin feat.
The fourteen that represent dragonmarked heirs offer Dragonmark feats rather than Origin feats; the Dragonmark feats appear at the end of the chapter. Choosing one of these backgrounds is the only way to acquire a Dragonmark feat at level 1; characters who select a different background can choose Dragonmark feats anytime they have an unrestricted feat choice.
This shows without a doubt that the choice to NOT include them as Origin Feats is entirely intentional. So the answer is 100% no.
(I'll give one exception: DMs can grant bonus feats in their own campaigns if it fits the story. If the DM wants to grant this, that's fine. But players shouldn't have the option to choose this.)
The fourteen that represent dragonmarked heirs offer Dragonmark feats rather than Origin feats; the Dragonmark feats appear at the end of the chapter. Choosing one of these backgrounds is the only way to acquire a Dragonmark feat at level 1; characters who select a different background can choose Dragonmark feats anytime they have an unrestricted feat choice.
This shows without a doubt that the choice to NOT include them as Origin Feats is entirely intentional. So the answer is 100% no.
(I'll give one exception: DMs can grant bonus feats in their own campaigns if it fits the story. If the DM wants to grant this, that's fine. But players shouldn't have the option to choose this.)
I do wish they had written in an exception for custom origin. Something like if you have a custom origin you can replace your origin feat with a dragon mark feat as a line. Can I do it as a DM, sure. But you can't if your DM is not comfortable with house ruling things, or if you are in a official campaign. So if you wanted to play I don't know a sorcerer with the making dragonmark feat, you were born with an intuitive grasp of crafting its tied into your blood with the mark and with how you cast magic. And people who make things want to sell them usually so you are the seller of the makers or whatever. Well tough you got to bump that int instead of charisma. Which by the way are the picking stats out of a hat on some of these. "expected to contribute to the ongoing success of the house through invention, scholarship, business, or diplomacy. " Yup strength man, strength is key to that. Dex sure, it covers most the artisan tools that aren't covered by intelligence or wisdom. Intelligence sure, it covers invention and scholarship. But strength, i guess blacksmithing uses that. don't think any other artisan tool would.
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The Warlock Invocation "Lessons of the First Ones" allows for the Warlock to gain an Origin Feat. Dragonmarks are not technically listed as origin feats but they are achievable with a background in the same manner as an origin feat. They are however listed (in DDB) as being acquirable with an ASI level. Just wondering if anyone else had thoughts on this???
No, they shouldn't be allowed because they're not origin feats, technically or otherwise.
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No, because they're not Origin Feats. They are very specifically and explicitly defined in the rules as being a different category of feat.
They can be acquired at ASI levels because those class features allow you to take any feat that you qualify for and don't limit you to a specific category. The new Eberron book even provides suggestions for how acquiring these feats at higher levels can be worked into a story thematically, so it's quite clear that this is intentional, not just a side effect of how they're implemented in D&D Beyond.
pronouns: he/she/they
Just because you can take them at whatever level doesn’t mean you SHOULD . You miss out on the classic “half-feats” or asi’s that boost your stats. That’s part of why I don’t get why anyone would take an extra fighter stance instead of a feat/ASI… unless multiclassing wasn’t allowed, but at that point I’d just play something else.
No, they are not a standard origin feat that can be justified through training which lessons of the first one could teach you, they are a bloodline feat that manifests with a magical mark. I really hate how they tied them to backgrounds with stats, or your level 4 feat. Absolutely terrible system. They should have had some generic background with any stat, any dragon mark to cover people who had the mark but not part of the clan. They even imply people like that exist who are then the clans try to recruit them fast, but they only allow it with a level 4 feat which thematically kind of goes to counter to it. So as a DM if I were to make a houserule, it would be on the backgrounds not on lessons of the first one. so if you want one, and the stats don't really line up with your class like 1/2 of them wont just talk with your DM on that end. Lessons of the first one would make it too easy.
There's nothing in the rules saying that the dragonmark feats have to be taken with the backgrounds they're associated with in the book. This is exactly the kind of thing custom backgrounds, which are already part of the rules, are intended for.
pronouns: he/she/they
"The fourteen that represent dragonmarked heirs offer Dragonmark feats rather than Origin feats; the Dragonmark feats appear at the end of the chapter. Choosing one of these backgrounds is the only way to acquire a Dragonmark feat at level 1"
There is a difference between "Origin Feat" and "a feat you can get at level 1/charavter creation." Origin Feat is an Explicit and Exhaustive list of ten feats Enumerated in the 2024 players handbook. They are: Alert, crafter, healer, lucky, magic initiate, musician, savage attacker, skilled, tavern brawler, tough.
2024 warlock invocation lessons of the first ones specifically limits the invocation to Origin Feats, so thats all the rules allow.
If you look at some of the backgrounds that come with feats, such as strixhaven backgrounds, those backgrounds come with extremely powerful feats that are intended to be only allowed as a charavter bavkgr9und in a strixhaven campaign where every player gets one to keep it balanced.
you're going to get a lot of noes here, so I will counter a yes, under very very specific situations.
First we look at the rules:
Lessons of the First Ones
Prerequisite: Level 2+ Warlock
You have received knowledge from an elder entity of the multiverse, allowing you to gain one Origin feat of your choice.
Repeatable. You can gain this invocation more than once. Each time you do so, choose a different Origin feat.
---
Dragonmarks are mysterious and magical symbols that appear on the skin of some people across Khorvaire. The twelve established dragonmarks are tied to specific family lines, and the scions of those families work hard at consolidating the power of the marks in order to maximize the profit and influence they gain from them.
---
In the lore of Eberron dragonmarks could manifest at any point in life, and sometimes could jump to races not always associated with a specific dragonmark. Also family genetics has a lot to do with it, and the elf manifesting a dragonmarrk seen usually on humans probably meant they have a human ancestor in their family line. (not that 5e points this out)
So technically a dragonmark is not an origin feat nor a typical asi feat, as such RAW and RAI say no, but going on world lore and setting lore, there are ways to cause a bloodline to manifest. Hinted at in deep lore BTW. I would as a DM allow this if your patron was a Dragon or a Rakshasa who follows the dragon prophecies. The Dragonmark would be picked by me as DM and would be a manifest of a long lost branch of your family line. It would have to be Roleplayed out, with a tabboo dark ceromony to trigger the dragonmark.
Note as I usually don't do evil campaigns and I generally do not allow evil characters besides NPCs you are going to have to convince me through roleplay that you can pull this level of evil off.
So yes, I would allow it under near impossible conditions.
Point of order, there are actually Origin feats outside the PHB - see Heroes of Forgotten Realms and Astarion's Book of Hungers. But I otherwise agree that the Eberron dragonmark feats are not part of that set despite being available in backgrounds at level 1.
The rules on custom backgrounds explicitly state that they come with an origin feat.
Dragonmark Feats aren't Origin Feats because they aren't labeled as such.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
More to the point, this is from the book itself:
This shows without a doubt that the choice to NOT include them as Origin Feats is entirely intentional. So the answer is 100% no.
(I'll give one exception: DMs can grant bonus feats in their own campaigns if it fits the story. If the DM wants to grant this, that's fine. But players shouldn't have the option to choose this.)
I do wish they had written in an exception for custom origin. Something like if you have a custom origin you can replace your origin feat with a dragon mark feat as a line. Can I do it as a DM, sure. But you can't if your DM is not comfortable with house ruling things, or if you are in a official campaign. So if you wanted to play I don't know a sorcerer with the making dragonmark feat, you were born with an intuitive grasp of crafting its tied into your blood with the mark and with how you cast magic. And people who make things want to sell them usually so you are the seller of the makers or whatever. Well tough you got to bump that int instead of charisma. Which by the way are the picking stats out of a hat on some of these. "expected to contribute to the ongoing success of the house through invention, scholarship, business, or diplomacy. " Yup strength man, strength is key to that. Dex sure, it covers most the artisan tools that aren't covered by intelligence or wisdom. Intelligence sure, it covers invention and scholarship. But strength, i guess blacksmithing uses that. don't think any other artisan tool would.