Is D&D real? According to J.R.R. Tolkien. It is... Read further...
I submit to you an essay that I've gone back to over and over, and each time I seem to find something new to learn.
I assume that I cannot link directly to the PDF, but simply Google "Tolkien On Fairy Stories" and the 15 page essay is available from various sources and there is a Wikipedia page.
I find the entirety of the essay to be fascinating, but I draw you to one particular section. I encourage you to read the section on "Fantasy". Here, I give you my TL;DR version:
According to Tolkien, Fantasy (i.e. Imagination) is a very high level of human art. And, as "art", it is a creative endeavor. Thus, just like any other human creative endeavor, as soon as the human imagination creates the fantasy, it then becomes a reality. As fantastic as it may be, the simple act of creation is creation nonetheless and no less "real" than a painting or a play or a song.
And I specifically want to quote one paragraph in this section because it almost seems like Tolkien is directly channelling Gary Gygax (who would be 9 years old when this essay was published) in describing a Dungeon Master:
"To make a Secondary World inside which the green sun will be credible, commanding Secondary Belief, will probably require labour and thought, and will certainly demand a special skill, a kind of elvish craft. Few attempt such difficult tasks. But when they are attempted and in any degree accomplished then we have a rare achievement of Art: indeed narrative art, storymaking in its primary and most potent mode."
JRR Tolkien "On Fairy Stories"
So, give this essay a read. I think that people who are following this forum and play D&D will find it interesting!
Thus, just like any other human creative endeavor, as soon as the human imagination creates the fantasy, it then becomes a reality.
Yeah, no. With the reality being that I've never shaken hands with Abraham Lincoln, never travelled to Mars and never bedded Fiona Apple, that would render the above assertion incorrect.
I think a lot of the handwavium and sophomore metaphysics can be laid aside if someone recognizes, quite simply, "fiction matters" in that fictions are part of many people's lives. You can think about dragons because you read about dragons, so they matter to you. That's all Tolkien or any sane fiction writer will ever claim.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I remember ready "On Fairy Stories" a long time ago.
The point Tolkien was trying to make here is that if it can be imagined, then it exists for that person. Maybe not in the physical world, but for that individual it exists nonetheless. If that person can then build a narrative and use that to share their creation with others, then it can exist for them as well. And if you create something and then share it with others.....doesn't it exist?
Thus, just like any other human creative endeavor, as soon as the human imagination creates the fantasy, it then becomes a reality.
Yeah, no. With the reality being that I've never shaken hands with Abraham Lincoln, never travelled to Mars and never bedded Fiona Apple, that would render the above assertion incorrect.
Have you never had a work of fiction resonate with you? Never become overwhelmed with emotion over fiction? These things are responses our bodies give us to external stimuli, and if we are experiencing them it means the stimuli caused it. That's proof enough for me that it's real.
That being said there is a big difference- as AscendentBlue says - between real for you and real for everyone.
Thus, just like any other human creative endeavor, as soon as the human imagination creates the fantasy, it then becomes a reality.
Yeah, no. With the reality being that I've never shaken hands with Abraham Lincoln, never travelled to Mars and never bedded Fiona Apple, that would render the above assertion incorrect.
Have you never had a work of fiction resonate with you? Never become overwhelmed with emotion over fiction? These things are responses our bodies give us to external stimuli, and if we are experiencing them it means the stimuli caused it. That's proof enough for me that it's real.
That being said there is a big difference- as AscendentBlue says - between real for you and real for everyone.
Sure. There is, however, an objective definition of what is reality and what isn't. Feelings for something can be real, of course. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the thing(s) we have those feelings for are real. Example, we're supposed to feel bad for the Formics in the Ender's Game novels. The feelings we have about them are real, but that doesn't suggest the Formic race is a reality.
Feelings about a fantasy are real. That doesn't change the fantasy into reality.
Thus, just like any other human creative endeavor, as soon as the human imagination creates the fantasy, it then becomes a reality.
Yeah, no. With the reality being that I've never shaken hands with Abraham Lincoln, never travelled to Mars and never bedded Fiona Apple, that would render the above assertion incorrect.
Have you never had a work of fiction resonate with you? Never become overwhelmed with emotion over fiction? These things are responses our bodies give us to external stimuli, and if we are experiencing them it means the stimuli caused it. That's proof enough for me that it's real.
That being said there is a big difference- as AscendentBlue says - between real for you and real for everyone.
Sure. There is, however, an objective definition of what is reality and what isn't. Feelings for something can be real, of course. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the thing(s) we have those feelings for are real. Example, we're supposed to feel bad for the Formics in the Ender's Game novels. The feelings we have about them are real, but that doesn't suggest the Formic race is a reality.
Feelings about a fantasy are real. That doesn't change the fantasy into reality.
So the whole thing boils down to philosophy.
Are Formics not real because you've never seen them? Have you seen the russian tundra? If not then it isn't real.
While I am the first person to discredit flat-earthers it's the same concept in reverse. They say you can't prove it exists. I say you can't prove it doesn't exist.
D&D is as real as a far-off locale you've never visited, a food you've never tasted, or even god.
Thus, just like any other human creative endeavor, as soon as the human imagination creates the fantasy, it then becomes a reality.
Yeah, no. With the reality being that I've never shaken hands with Abraham Lincoln, never travelled to Mars and never bedded Fiona Apple, that would render the above assertion incorrect.
Have you never had a work of fiction resonate with you? Never become overwhelmed with emotion over fiction? These things are responses our bodies give us to external stimuli, and if we are experiencing them it means the stimuli caused it. That's proof enough for me that it's real.
That being said there is a big difference- as AscendentBlue says - between real for you and real for everyone.
Sure. There is, however, an objective definition of what is reality and what isn't. Feelings for something can be real, of course. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the thing(s) we have those feelings for are real. Example, we're supposed to feel bad for the Formics in the Ender's Game novels. The feelings we have about them are real, but that doesn't suggest the Formic race is a reality.
Feelings about a fantasy are real. That doesn't change the fantasy into reality.
So the whole thing boils down to philosophy.
Are Formics not real because you've never seen them? Have you seen the russian tundra? If not then it isn't real.
While I am the first person to discredit flat-earthers it's the same concept in reverse. They say you can't prove it exists. I say you can't prove it doesn't exist.
D&D is as real as a far-off locale you've never visited, a food you've never tasted, or even god.
As I stated, there is an objective definition for what is reality and what isn't. The Russian tundra, though I've never seen it, exists in reality because it can be proven that it actually exists according to the definition of what makes something objective reality. No philosophy involved.
Once again, how someone feels about a fantasy is real. The fantasy, however, is still just that, a fantasy. That's why it's called fantasy.
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Is D&D real? According to J.R.R. Tolkien. It is... Read further...
I submit to you an essay that I've gone back to over and over, and each time I seem to find something new to learn.
I assume that I cannot link directly to the PDF, but simply Google "Tolkien On Fairy Stories" and the 15 page essay is available from various sources and there is a Wikipedia page.
I find the entirety of the essay to be fascinating, but I draw you to one particular section. I encourage you to read the section on "Fantasy". Here, I give you my TL;DR version:
According to Tolkien, Fantasy (i.e. Imagination) is a very high level of human art. And, as "art", it is a creative endeavor. Thus, just like any other human creative endeavor, as soon as the human imagination creates the fantasy, it then becomes a reality. As fantastic as it may be, the simple act of creation is creation nonetheless and no less "real" than a painting or a play or a song.
And I specifically want to quote one paragraph in this section because it almost seems like Tolkien is directly channelling Gary Gygax (who would be 9 years old when this essay was published) in describing a Dungeon Master:
So, give this essay a read. I think that people who are following this forum and play D&D will find it interesting!
Be careful what you Wish for... your DM may just give it to you!
Yeah, no. With the reality being that I've never shaken hands with Abraham Lincoln, never travelled to Mars and never bedded Fiona Apple, that would render the above assertion incorrect.
this reminds me so much of kekgate
I think a lot of the handwavium and sophomore metaphysics can be laid aside if someone recognizes, quite simply, "fiction matters" in that fictions are part of many people's lives. You can think about dragons because you read about dragons, so they matter to you. That's all Tolkien or any sane fiction writer will ever claim.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I remember ready "On Fairy Stories" a long time ago.
The point Tolkien was trying to make here is that if it can be imagined, then it exists for that person. Maybe not in the physical world, but for that individual it exists nonetheless. If that person can then build a narrative and use that to share their creation with others, then it can exist for them as well. And if you create something and then share it with others.....doesn't it exist?
Have you never had a work of fiction resonate with you? Never become overwhelmed with emotion over fiction? These things are responses our bodies give us to external stimuli, and if we are experiencing them it means the stimuli caused it. That's proof enough for me that it's real.
That being said there is a big difference- as AscendentBlue says - between real for you and real for everyone.
Sure. There is, however, an objective definition of what is reality and what isn't. Feelings for something can be real, of course. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the thing(s) we have those feelings for are real. Example, we're supposed to feel bad for the Formics in the Ender's Game novels. The feelings we have about them are real, but that doesn't suggest the Formic race is a reality.
Feelings about a fantasy are real. That doesn't change the fantasy into reality.
So the whole thing boils down to philosophy.
Are Formics not real because you've never seen them? Have you seen the russian tundra? If not then it isn't real.
While I am the first person to discredit flat-earthers it's the same concept in reverse. They say you can't prove it exists. I say you can't prove it doesn't exist.
D&D is as real as a far-off locale you've never visited, a food you've never tasted, or even god.
As I stated, there is an objective definition for what is reality and what isn't. The Russian tundra, though I've never seen it, exists in reality because it can be proven that it actually exists according to the definition of what makes something objective reality. No philosophy involved.
Once again, how someone feels about a fantasy is real. The fantasy, however, is still just that, a fantasy. That's why it's called fantasy.